login   |    register

Scale Modeling Sponsors

See Your Ad Here!

Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Dueling Build Log: DML & Trumpeter Sd.Kfz.7/1
bill_c
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 9,588 posts
Armorama: 7,407 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 04:42 PM GMT+7


Watch this space....
Plasticbattle
#003
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,759 posts
Armorama: 7,440 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 06:22 PM GMT+7
Watching
casualmodeler
Visit this Community
Hame, Finland
Joined: February 04, 2009
KitMaker: 702 posts
Armorama: 665 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 06:47 PM GMT+7
You bet, Bill!
SSJugend
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 02, 2006
KitMaker: 123 posts
Armorama: 111 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 07:13 PM GMT+7
Im watching....

raivo74
Visit this Community
Vilnius, Lithuania
Joined: November 09, 2009
KitMaker: 88 posts
Armorama: 67 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 07:43 PM GMT+7
Hello to all, particularly to Bill. I'm new to this site and still in "lurker" mode.

I've got the Trumpeter kit on my stash, so I'll watch Bill's build with interest. Will it be OOB, crossover hybrid or separate builds with aftermarket?

Will be the Trump's incorrect Flakvierling base adressed? That's the main problem for me, because I have no good reference for the base.

Sorry for so many questions, but that's the rookie's lot
bill_c
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 9,588 posts
Armorama: 7,407 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 07:47 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

I've got the Trumpeter kit on my stash, so I'll watch Bill's build with interest. Will it be OOB, crossover hybrid or separate builds with aftermarket?


These are both review kits, so I'm supposed to build them OOB. But....

Quoted Text

Will be the Trump's incorrect Flakvierling base adressed? That's the main problem for me, because I have no good reference for the base.


I am waiting for a check to come in before ordering an AM "fix" for this problem, as well as turned barrels for both kits.

Quoted Text

Sorry for so many questions, but that's the rookie's lot


Glad to have you hear, I hope you enjoy the builds!
Gt351
Visit this Community
Tasmania, Australia
Joined: July 26, 2003
KitMaker: 142 posts
Armorama: 114 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 08:43 PM GMT+7
Hi Bill, have the dragon kit so will be keeping an eye on this thread, good luck with the builds, cheers Bob.
shopkin4
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Joined: March 29, 2009
KitMaker: 1,135 posts
Armorama: 1,030 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 08:46 PM GMT+7
I'm def watching this one and can't want to see this one in action. I would like to do two at once but I'd be so best of luck to you!
wbill76
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: May 02, 2006
KitMaker: 5,425 posts
Armorama: 4,659 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 11:57 PM GMT+7
Defintely on my must follow list...subscribing to this thread for sure.
GALILEO1
Visit this Community
Maryland, United States
Joined: April 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,788 posts
Armorama: 1,426 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:50 AM GMT+7
Yep, me too Bill! I've got every one of DML Sdkfz 7s on the stash and will surely follow this. Man I really like that Trumpy boxart!!

Rob
gremlinz
Visit this Community
Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: February 07, 2009
KitMaker: 795 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:58 AM GMT+7
Is the AM fix the Griffon sets ? I have both these plus several of the Griffon upgades so I'm keen to follow this and take notes along the way for when I start mine.
metooshelah
#011
Visit this Community
Jerusalem, Israel
Joined: February 06, 2009
KitMaker: 1,453 posts
Armorama: 1,258 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 06:09 AM GMT+7
ohhh I do like these build logs
subscribed
Gorizont
Visit this Community
Sachsen, Germany
Joined: November 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,462 posts
Armorama: 1,289 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 07:49 AM GMT+7
Ahh, a comparing build log. Thatīs interesting!
I Look forward to see the progress!

greetings...
Soeren
yeahwiggie
Visit this Community
Dalarnas, Sweden
Joined: March 24, 2006
KitMaker: 1,874 posts
Armorama: 1,141 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 08:12 AM GMT+7
Sir! I'm watching, Sir!


GALILEO1
Visit this Community
Maryland, United States
Joined: April 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,788 posts
Armorama: 1,426 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 10:51 AM GMT+7
You know, coming to think of it, I've never actually seen a side-by-side comparison of kits in an actual build log. Seen plenty of comparison reviews but never an actual comparison build. So, Bill, this will be my first and may I add that you chose the absolutely best subject to do this...Thanks!

Waiting with real anticipation!

Rob
Plasticbattle
#003
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,759 posts
Armorama: 7,440 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 11:21 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

before ordering an AM "fix" for this problem, as well as turned barrels for both kits.



Quoted Text

Is the AM fix the Griffon sets ? I have both these plus several of the Griffon upgades so I'm keen to follow this and take notes along the way for when I start mine.


Could somebody please fill me in regarding the actual problems with the Trumpeter kit and what the fixes are?
NexOn
Visit this Community
Belgrade, Serbia & Montenegro
Joined: February 21, 2006
KitMaker: 5 posts
Armorama: 3 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:10 PM GMT+7
Hi Frank,

You can find a review at PMMS and comparison.

Here is the link: http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/8ton_flak/8ton_flak_01.html

Me to are watching this.....
bill_c
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 9,588 posts
Armorama: 7,407 posts
Posted: Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:49 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Is the AM fix the Griffon sets ? I have both these plus several of the Griffon upgades so I'm keen to follow this and take notes along the way for when I start mine.


Shh, I haven't ordered mine yet and don't went them to go out of stock!
bill_c
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 9,588 posts
Armorama: 7,407 posts
Posted: Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:04 AM GMT+7
OK, the Dragon and Trumpeter methods of rendering the chassis are very, very different. Perhaps because of superior molding technology, DML goes for a single-piece chassis. Other than problems of warpage, this makes it easier to get the thing going as you can see from the results of Step 1:





The Sd.Kfz.7 base unit's chassis is complex, and DML uses other fully-molded complex parts to avoid the need for sub-assemblies:



This, by necessity, involves some simplifications, but this is a Smart Kit, so there is overall less PE and fewer parts than with the Trumpeter, which has numerous sub-assemblies and smart parts that will bedevil some:




As you can see, there are many more fill issues with the Trumpeter kit. Overall, the quality of the molding is superior with the DML kit. Trumpeter has struggled with its mold technology, resulting in many unsightly knock-out holes, often in hard-to-reach places. This portion of the frame, for example, could have had the filler points on the other side where they could be dealt-with more easily:



Where Trumpeter excells, IMO, is the detailing of its transmission and engine:






The two chassis compared:



The Trumpeter chassis is harder to assemble and takes some care, but the instructions are very clear and easy-to-follow. The DML instructions are a little less-clear in spots so far, but what else is new?
Gorizont
Visit this Community
Sachsen, Germany
Joined: November 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,462 posts
Armorama: 1,289 posts
Posted: Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:40 AM GMT+7
Looking good so far!
Itīs interesting to see how the manufacturers represent the individual parts.

greetings...
Soeren
casualmodeler
Visit this Community
Hame, Finland
Joined: February 04, 2009
KitMaker: 702 posts
Armorama: 665 posts
Posted: Friday, December 11, 2009 - 12:14 PM GMT+7
I donīt know how many parts are missing on last pic but those differences on chassis between DML and TRP makes them look like two different models..
docdios
Staff MemberContributing Writer
KITMAKER NETWORK
#036
Visit this Community
England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 1,987 posts
Armorama: 1,236 posts
Posted: Friday, December 11, 2009 - 12:39 PM GMT+7
Hi Bill

Nice start you do realise that I am going to expect to see a full blown build/ comparison article from this as well now!!

cheers

Keith
Gorizont
Visit this Community
Sachsen, Germany
Joined: November 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,462 posts
Armorama: 1,289 posts
Posted: Friday, December 11, 2009 - 12:39 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

I donīt know how many parts are missing on last pic but those differences on chassis between DML and TRP makes them look like two different models..



Yes, youīre right. I didnīt want to say that.
But in general, the difference between both kits on some parts is good visible. The same thing can be seen on comparison reviews of Trumpeterīs and Dragonīs s.Fh18 kits.

greetings...
Soeren
bill_c
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 9,588 posts
Armorama: 7,407 posts
Posted: Friday, December 11, 2009 - 03:42 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi Bill

Nice start you do realise that I am going to expect to see a full blown build/ comparison article from this as well now!!

cheers

Keith




Actually, I'm flattered that you would ask. Of course, my friend.
bill_c
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 9,588 posts
Armorama: 7,407 posts
Posted: Friday, December 11, 2009 - 03:45 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

I donīt know how many parts are missing on last pic but those differences on chassis between DML and TRP makes them look like two different models..


I hope to show the different ways the two makers tackle this. I will have engine photos up next which give a very different look at rendering metal in 1/35th scale.