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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
DML Flakpanzer 38(t)
pzcreations
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Georgia, United States
Joined: May 24, 2006
KitMaker: 2,086 posts
Armorama: 1,099 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 05, 2008 - 02:11 PM GMT+7
Looks like a great model so far...and some very nice work youve done as well. It does appear theres some detail sets, at least a p/e set that will really enhance this one. cant wait to see the complete product,especially after seeing the paintup on that interior.
wbill76
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Saturday, July 05, 2008 - 02:17 PM GMT+7
James,

Making good progress! Not sure if you can still fix it or not, but the rain shield over the radios and transformer should should be bent at the ends, not straight. If you look at the PE piece DML provides, it has bend lines etched in to recreate this at least at the one end judging by the photo. Here's how it should actually look (this is the Alan kit with Eduard PE). The bends were there to channel any rain collection off and away from the equipment. Doesn't look like DML allowed for the bend on the skinny end though with their design.

c5flies
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California, United States
Joined: October 21, 2007
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Posted: Saturday, July 05, 2008 - 08:31 PM GMT+7
Frank , thanks for the encouraging words, hopefully I'll see your Tristar build. Looking to pick up that kit myself. I'm thinking of leaving the drivers hatches open, I'm pretty happy with the way one side came out and will try to cover the other with a rag or something.

Pete , would love to see some pics of your build, did you go mono tone or camo? Do you see anything I did wrong so far or anything specific coming up?

Tim , thank you! I'm trying for OOB as much as possible on this one. This has been one of the most enjoyable kits I've done and will definately do more, I'll look for some upgrade kits for the next.

Bill , I should have realized something wasn't right with that rain guard! Yeah, one side has a bend line and is about half thickness and the other side is just flat. One good thing with super glue, no sheer strength! Gave it a snap and out it came, couple quick bends and popped it back in place. Thanks for the correction and the photo!
gringe88
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New York, United States
Joined: April 23, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 12:36 AM GMT+7
The Build's coming excellent James! About the padding on the access hatch to the driver's compartment: It's not bad for a first shot. Next time, try using tenax liquid glue or maybe even the testor's bottle glue if you don't like the fast drying time for the tenax (gone before its out of the bottle!). Use that to smooth out the edges of the folds in the pads.

another bit of info on the interior of the shielding- the vehicle's identification numbers were painted on the inside of them as well, as i think DML makes accommodations for, but the numbers were purposefully painted upside down so that when the shields were dropped, the numbers would be right side up. This was done because with the shields dropped, the vehicle ID numbers on the back portion of the hull would be obscured. I only found a photo of this in one of my searches online. It's not even in the Armor in Focus (Wydawnictwo) book on the flakpanzer 38, or MBI's book on the Marder III and variants. If you already knew about that, then sorry for being a broken record

I also want to thank you for posting up your pics. I want to use Tamiya's Marder III M chasis as a base to build this variant with the new tristar late flak 38 (i was planning it before the companies put out their goods , and im sticking to my guns on this one) I've been trying to find good shots of the interior of the flakpanzer 38 for some time, and between your build and Bill Plunk's its really filled in the voids. A hearty thanks to you and Bill if he reads this!
c5flies
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California, United States
Joined: October 21, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 01:19 AM GMT+7
Hi Matt, glad to see you're still checking in!


Quoted Text

The Build's coming excellent James! About the padding on the access hatch to the driver's compartment: It's not bad for a first shot. Next time, try using tenax liquid glue or maybe even the testor's bottle glue if you don't like the fast drying time for the tenax (gone before its out of the bottle!). Use that to smooth out the edges of the folds in the pads.



Will definately give that a try, thanks for all the advice on the padding.



Quoted Text

another bit of info on the interior of the shielding- the vehicle's identification numbers were painted on the inside of them as well, as i think DML makes accommodations for, but the numbers were purposefully painted upside down so that when the shields were dropped, the numbers would be right side up. This was done because with the shields dropped, the vehicle ID numbers on the back portion of the hull would be obscured. I only found a photo of this in one of my searches online. It's not even in the Armor in Focus (Wydawnictwo) book on the flakpanzer 38, or MBI's book on the Marder III and variants. If you already knew about that, then sorry for being a broken record



Never a broken record with info, Matt, but I'm up on this one! Another often overlooked part of this is when a camo is applied it is also on the inner areas of the fold down shields, as seen on the far side.......



If I'm wrong in my review of this kit I'll change it, but the numbers should be on both sides (inner & outer) for a total of 4, correct? The decals in the kit only include 3 (for both #13 & #11) and that is one of the reasons I'm dropping some panels, so the 'missing' one will be hidden.

Good luck on your kit bash, I'll be looking forward to it.
wbill76
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 01:36 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text



I also want to thank you for posting up your pics. I want to use Tamiya's Marder III M chasis as a base to build this variant with the new tristar late flak 38 (i was planning it before the companies put out their goods , and im sticking to my guns on this one) I've been trying to find good shots of the interior of the flakpanzer 38 for some time, and between your build and Bill Plunk's its really filled in the voids. A hearty thanks to you and Bill if he reads this!



My pleasure Matt, glad the info is helpful to you! Interior shots of the Flak 38t are pretty hard to come by as you know and some of those are contradictory as the prototype had a different pedestal style vs. the production models, so have to be careful!
rustey
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: June 23, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 08:18 AM GMT+7
nice paint job you did back there! really like it!

Jens
c5flies
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California, United States
Joined: October 21, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 09:04 PM GMT+7
Thanks Jens, I wanted to try the Tamiya SF on the whole kit and was disappointed with the outcome. I usually use a Badger Anthem for the bulk painting and the Tamiya for the fine work, which is what the two are basically designed for. I'll stick to my normal routine from now on!

Last update for awhile, felt good to get some bench time in this weekend. Dunkelgelb was applied along with the Rotbraun and Olivgrun, all using MM acrylics. The engine and drivers hatches were temporarily taped in place so the camo would match up. Like I stated earlier, the inner side of the fold down armor should be camo'd also. To blend it all in a very diluted mix of Dunkelgelb and tan were sprayed over the whole kit, which further added to the sandpaper effect from the Tamiya SF (and the guy using it)

The fold downs were then set in their positions and Future sprayed over the entire model. I've gone both routes, Future and no Future, and prefer using it as a base for the preliminary washes as well as the decals.

I also have the rain shield over the radios corrected....thanks Bill

The wheels were also finished, though as you can see I got a little overzealous with the tire damage and will need to fix that I think the sprockets came out pretty good though, remember these had holes in them. All in all, productive weekend and a lot of fun!

Thanks for looking, comments/critiques always welcome





wbill76
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 09:51 PM GMT+7
Nice work with the camo pattern James and as for the sprockets, you'd never know by looking at them they were once "holy".
tjkelly
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Maryland, United States
Joined: May 04, 2007
KitMaker: 1,132 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 07, 2008 - 01:58 PM GMT+7
James -

Great build with this kit, looking fantastic! Flak variants are my favorite, have this one in the stash to do (someday!) Will have to refer to your work when the time comes! Thanks for sharing your in-progress pics and tips! Looking forward to your finished model!

Cheers!

Tim
jimz66
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: December 15, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 03:46 PM GMT+7
James, very nice build you have there. I really like this kit and have to put in on my "to get list" for sometime in the very distant future. I really like the way your interior came out and really enjoyed reading your play by play on this one. I only get online once and a while I will have to try to remember visiting this one. Well done. I only offer one bit of disaggreance. I don't think you went to far overboard on the road wheels. But that is just IMHO.

Thanks for sharing.
c5flies
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California, United States
Joined: October 21, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 11:52 PM GMT+7
Bill, thanks! That camo pattern is always a bit of a challenge for me, as I tend to make the lines too long. The 'unholy sprockets' has a mean ring to it, doesn't it

Tim, hopefully you'll get this one on the bench soon. Very nice kit that I'm sure you'll enjoy. Thanks for the compliments! I see you'll be building the M4 mortar carrier,(another fun build IMO) looking forward to following along on that one. Gary Kato wrote a very helpful review on that, check it out if you haven't already!

James, glad you stopped in for a visit! The progress is so slow on this that you don't need to visit the forums often to keep up to date with it! Thanks for the encouragement
c5flies
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Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 12:18 AM GMT+7
Much has been done in the last 2 weeks but I'll post my progress in sections. With the basics of the vehicle complete work began on the Flak. Another very busy section in the instructions with quite a few sub-assemblies and some choices to be made.

First up was the left and right frames, one thing to watch for when cleaning them up is what appears at first glance to be mold lines (at least to these old eyes) are actually welds. There are also mold lines where other components fit, so clean up accordingly.



Gun and sight shields were often removed, to give the crew more room and also for a lower profile. Reference photos show both with and without in combat duty, and I chose to see how the kit parts go together. The gun sight shield has a 1 piece styrene or 7 piece PE option, after assembling and setting the two side by side I opted for the styrene. Even though thicker I thought it showed more details, extra details could be added to the PE one if desired. Also, looking ahead, the main gun shield is only offered in styrene, so the scale of the 2 shield thicknesses would be very evident. Too bad the PE parts from the original DML Flak kit weren't included.





The moveable front shield PE brackets are included, though the instructions do not show them as an option. These I decided to use, even though when all completed will be barely visible. I removed the styrene mounting tabs since it seemed like a good idea at the time!







Other options at this point are early (pilot version) or late (production) gun sight, since I'm going for a production model the late sight was used. 3 choices of receiver covers are offered, and I believe either the ribbed (J2) or smooth (J4) would be correct, and I would lean more towards the smooth cover for accuracy. But in the end I chose the ribbed since I liked the appearance better!

In step 16 are shown 4 options for the elevation rod and this is where you skip to step 18 and decide on either 0, 20, 40 or 60 degree elevation as each uses different parts. Couple of items to note, Part A29 fits into both part A43 and A58 so be sure to line them up. The instructions indicate removing 2 angle brackets off the gun floor plate, but do not show that part R8 gets fastened in this area.





The front shield lower sections have an option of different styles (A56,A57 or R9,R10) I used the R parts, if using the A parts check for clearance as the seem to be too large for the fighting compartment to allow the gun to traverse. Again, I didn't check this out closely but the difference can be seen in the photo below, the lower left is A57 and lower right is R10. The inner pieces are offered in styrene or PE, with no option shown on the instructions. I went with the PE parts here and won't go into the stupid mistake I made with them at this time!







Found a couple of extra straps on the PE fret, although a bit long they still are better than nothing for the jack.



And the weathering has started on the wheels.



Thanks for looking



PantherF
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Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 08:32 AM GMT+7
I've really enjoyed watching this build! Very educational and inspiring. The work on the road wheels rubber is convincing to me!

Can't wait to see more! Thanks for sharing it.
wbill76
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Texas, United States
Joined: May 02, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 09:30 AM GMT+7
James,

Making good progress! You have indeed identified an area on the base of the Flak 38 that many often remove as mold seams but are actually an intentionally included detail that should be left in place. The first time I built a DML Flak 38 I dilligently removed them only to find out they belonged there in the first place! Weathering on the wheels looks very nice, looking forward to more.
jimz66
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: December 15, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 01:40 PM GMT+7
Looking great James. I was wondering what was happing to this one. I am very interested in how this one is going to come out. Keep going. Almost there!!!!!!!!!!!
whittman181
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Massachusetts, United States
Joined: December 30, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 11:49 PM GMT+7
Looking real good and the running gear came out awesome Bob
c5flies
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California, United States
Joined: October 21, 2007
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Posted: Friday, July 25, 2008 - 12:30 AM GMT+7
Jeff, happy to hear you're enjoying this, thanks!

Bill, that's a relief that I'm not alone in spending the time removing details, only to spend more time trying to get them back on

James, sometimes I'm a very slow builder and even slower to post! I'm a bit further along, weathering and still working on the details. Stay tuned!

Bob, thanks! It's starting to come together

Thanks for the comments, guys.
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
#406
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
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Posted: Friday, July 25, 2008 - 02:05 AM GMT+7
James you have come a very long way in a short time, paint, PE, and construction are of a very high standard (what are you using to bend PE now), your photography is also of a very high standard. Your blogging/writing style creates an easy to read, understand, and informative piece which clearly explains what you have done and how. Damn I tried so hard to look for a negative.

Well done and keep up the great work
c5flies
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 05:05 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

James you have come a very long way in a short time, paint, PE, and construction are of a very high standard (what are you using to bend PE now), your photography is also of a very high standard. Your blogging/writing style creates an easy to read, understand, and informative piece which clearly explains what you have done and how. Damn I tried so hard to look for a negative.

Well done and keep up the great work



Darren, thank you, that really means a lot to me. I still have a long way to go and I'm running pretty much low-tech, slowly building up paints, tools, references etc.. As far as PE goes, the best purchase I've made to help with that has been an Optivisor, otherwise my other high-tech PE tools are shown below The pointed tweezers have about a 1mm gap at the tip and are pretty much useless, think I'll treat myself to some new ones!

c5flies
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 05:05 PM GMT+7
I can't believe I've been working on this for 3 months, time to start wrapping it up! With the Flak built, it was painted in Dunklegelb to be weathered with the rest. The ammo cases got a brown wash and a little wear and tear with a graphite pencil.



I like to have mostly everything built and in place on the model before I paint, leaving just the tracks/running gear for last. Not so with this kit it would appear! The engine compartment and drivers hatches were installed to get ready for the first washes.



The small details like the seats, cannisters, radios etc. were painted in the fighting compartment and an overall wash of brown was applied. I put this on heavy to start with and then remove most of it with a soft cloth to blot up the excess and a brush with thinner to do the final adjustment. After this came a sienna wash, which I'm still adjusting the color as it has too much orange. Here's a shot of the first 2 washes and a trial fit of the Flak.



Spare tracks were assembled, painted and washed with brown and sienna and put in place. The four ammo cases went into their PE holders and the spare barrel case installed. I left this open since there is some nice detail in there. If you want to have ammo cases in the left and/or right single holders on the gun platform I'd recommend putting them in before the PE holders are in place.

Previously I stated that part R8 wasn't shown in the instructions, it is shown in step 19, that'll teach me to pay attention and follow the instructions







Thanks for looking, suggestions always welcome!
c5flies
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Posted: Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 09:07 PM GMT+7
I love magic tracks, they go together easily and look pretty good. The instructions call for 96 links per side, so I started with 90 links and then will see how many will be needed once mounted. I use Testors liquid for these since it seems to give me more flex then Tamiya super thin. While they were setting up enough to work with the roadwheels were glued on. Sprockets, idlers and return rollers were left off at this time.

I wrap the track around the sprocket first, leaving enough to go under the first roadwheel....



Then thread it thru, around the idler with the return roller which is just tacked on with Blu-tac or even some tape. The reason for not having the return glued on is there is not enough clearance between the fender to clear the guide horns. Roll up some paper to shove in if you want sag (thanks Doog!) and get everything in position. Now I can see how many more links I'll need, which amazingly came out to 6!



I let them dry for a few hours or overnight, pop them off, and since these are not handed I mark the left track by cutting away a small section that won't be seen. This way, after painting I'll know where they go.



I usually have the pioneer tools on before painting the model, but since I could not get the DML PE clasps to work I had to order some AM ones. Thanks to Bill & Ron's suggestion I picked up a Griffon Models set, and will most likely use these in all future builds. So the pioneer tools got painted and then attached, no further problems with that.

The instructions don't show the jack block (unless I missed that too) but one is included and is usually stored directly in front of the second fender bracket. Detail is weak on the block, so if you don't want to use it one can be fabricated or snatched out of the spares box.

The Flak was now attached along with the antenna, some final weathering and now just awaiting the tracks.









Thanks for looking......comments, critiques, suggestions and/or questions always welcome
rustey
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: June 23, 2007
KitMaker: 101 posts
Armorama: 24 posts
Posted: Monday, July 28, 2008 - 05:09 AM GMT+7
SWEET weathering!! what paint did you use for the rust on the flak canon?

Jens
PantherF
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Monday, July 28, 2008 - 08:22 AM GMT+7
Stunning work. I like how you explained the magic track assembly, makes more sense to me know. The wash is a nice touch and a great choice of color too. The rubber on the wheels is even more convincing now that it is surrounded by some tracks.

Nice build and photos James!
jimz66
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: December 15, 2006
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Posted: Monday, July 28, 2008 - 02:45 PM GMT+7
Looking very good James. I know what it's like to be a slow builder say no more. We all do what we can, when we can. I think it's time for you to think about a hold and fold or Etche mate. Keep it coming. Looking excellent.