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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Dragon Panther D w/zimmerit
Spiff
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Nevada, United States
Joined: September 07, 2002
KitMaker: 807 posts
Armorama: 671 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 02:48 PM GMT+7
Work has begun on my Dragon 1/35 Panther D w/zimmerit. I recently posted an in-box review of this excellent kit which you can find here:
Panther D w/zimmerit In-Box Review





I found the markings in the kit a bit boring, so I picked up the excellent Echelon decal set ATX351009 which features markings for various Panther Ausf. D and a couple for the Ausf. A. Included are some gorgeous markings featuring red, black or white snarling Panther heads with Pz.Abt. 51 and Pz.Abt. 52 around the time of Operation Zitadelle. One of these days I'll do one of those schemes on a Dragon 1/35 Panther Ausf. D premium.


For this build, I have narrowed my choices down to either of these two vehicles:

* Panther #232, 2nd Company, 15 Pz.Rgt., 11 Pz. Div.
* Panther #424, 4th Company, 15 Pz.Rgt., 11 Pz. Div.






Construction begins with the running gear and lower hull.



The suspension arms have been attached, as well as the final drive housings and other runner gear components. So far it's been a very easy build with no fit problems, however the locating pin located on the back of the fatter end of the final drive housings needed to be removed because there is no corresponding locating hole for it on the hull.



For those that plan on building this kit, be aware that the suspension arms 2nd from the front and 2nd from the rear are supposed to have that raised seam on them running down the middle. Also note that those components are beefier than the rest of the suspension arms.

Once I got them all attached I lined them up by resting just the ends of the arms on the edge of my workbench while simultaneously putting a stiff straight ruler on the top half so they would line up correctly as they set. Because some of the arms are thicker than the others you can't use the tried and true method of just setting the kit flat on the table as the thicker ones will wind up with the axle slightly above and out of alignment with the rest of the arms. Make sense?

I will be using the "template method" to spray the road wheels. First they will be painted a mix of flat black with a touch of gray to simulate the slightly faded look that the rubber gets from exposure to sun and the elements. Using a drafting template with various sized circles on it I find the hole that best matches the size of the metal road wheel portion and use that as a mask to spray the base coat. I will document the process with photos when I get to the painting stage of the build. In the mean time, the wheels have been cleaned up and are ready for painting.













milvehfan
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 26, 2007
KitMaker: 2,098 posts
Armorama: 1,075 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 08:59 PM GMT+7
Really liked your review and your builds , now I'm looking forward to this build. Panther is my favorite and Ive got this one in the stash waiting to get built. , milvehfan
tjkelly
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Maryland, United States
Joined: May 04, 2007
KitMaker: 1,132 posts
Armorama: 1,123 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 11:11 PM GMT+7
Nice build so far Scott. Agree with milvehfan, like your builds. Looking forward to watching your progress with this one! Will have to get this one for the "stash".

Cheers -

Tim
koenele
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Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 4,194 posts
Armorama: 408 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 06:09 AM GMT+7
i'll be following this topic!!
Spiff
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Nevada, United States
Joined: September 07, 2002
KitMaker: 807 posts
Armorama: 671 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 11:47 AM GMT+7
Thank you gentlemen, I really appreciate the comments and the interest.
Belafonte
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Illinois, United States
Joined: March 28, 2008
KitMaker: 43 posts
Armorama: 26 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 02:47 PM GMT+7
This looks to be a really amazing build. I really can not wait to see more!


JD
SIRNEIL
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: July 30, 2007
KitMaker: 658 posts
Armorama: 599 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 03:23 PM GMT+7
looking forward to this one scott
i'm not building at the moment so this should help me get my fix !!!!!!
neil
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,095 posts
Armorama: 4,522 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 03:28 PM GMT+7
Scott-- another great job underway. Post more pictures!
DJ
Spiff
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Nevada, United States
Joined: September 07, 2002
KitMaker: 807 posts
Armorama: 671 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 04:41 PM GMT+7
Thank you gentlemen, I really appreciate your interest.

I should have some more progress pics to share later this evening. The idler wheels and drive sprocket assemblies have been completed and I hope to tackle the rear hull and exhausts when I get home from work. .
whittman181
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Massachusetts, United States
Joined: December 30, 2006
KitMaker: 646 posts
Armorama: 473 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 04:43 PM GMT+7
Hi Scott , glad to see you jump right on this one Looking forward to the finished product Bob
jcourtot
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Indiana, United States
Joined: June 06, 2008
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 251 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 05:37 PM GMT+7
Whats up Scott,
I will be watching this one. I also wanted to buty this one but a little out of my budget area.
Keep us posted.

thxs,
John
Spiff
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Nevada, United States
Joined: September 07, 2002
KitMaker: 807 posts
Armorama: 671 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 12:12 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi Scott , glad to see you jump right on this one Looking forward to the finished product Bob



Ya, I've been reviewing some nice kits that I've just been dying to get onto the workbench so I finally pushed everything else aside and started this thing.

My review of the after market decals that I'm using on this build, Echelon ATX351009, has been published if anyone is interested.

Echelon ATX351009 Panther Ausf. D
thebear
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 12:50 AM GMT+7
Hi Scott ...looks like a good start on this kit ....I was just noticing the decal sellection you chose for the kit . Those decals are for an earlier D with the communication port on the side of the turret ...The kit doesn't give you that option . Also note that if you do 232 they made some kind of support for the turret hatch and it also had two boxes welded to frames on the rear hull . What you get in the box is a later model D which was produced in August or September that has eliminated the comunication port and it should have the later type tracks and wheels ... One other thing I noticed while researching this kit is most if not all the D's like this were command vehicles with the extra antenaes and the plugged coaxial MG on the mantlet ..Doesn't mean there weren't any out there but I haven't seen a picture of one . I was thinking about buying this kit but it seems a bit of a mix and match affair . The decals in the kit are wrong for this type of D as well so be careful guys .

Rick
Spiff
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Nevada, United States
Joined: September 07, 2002
KitMaker: 807 posts
Armorama: 671 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 01:44 PM GMT+7
Thanks for the info Rick, very helpful.

It is really difficult to pin these Panther Ausf. D variations down. So many changes were introduced throughout the Ausf. D production run. What complicates the matter further is that many of the original and early vehicles had some of the modifications done during rebuilding and retrofitting, but it wasn't done uniformly across the board, and often times only some of the modifications were done. That is what makes the research so complicated and difficult to analyze. Especially when looking at photos which clearly contradict what was ordered to be done. Make sense?

I have only come across a few photos of Panther Ausf. D with this style of zimmerit and I'm inclined to agree with your conclusion regarding the communications port and the cleated tracks. It does appear that each of the Panther Ausf. D w/zimmerit photos that I've seen were command vehicles. I just wish there were more original photos available to evaluate. I'd be curious to know how Dragon settled on this particular configuration.

So theoretically, if I modify the turret by adding back the communications port I should be good to go eh? That might be a little tricky.... Adding the communications port to the turret will also be consistent with the earlier non-cleated tracks that are provided in the kit..

I like how the Echelon decal set noted which vehicles had the boxes on the left rear of the engine deck, so it shouldn't be too difficult for me to add that.

Thanks again for that valuable information Rick, most appreciated.
thebear
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 01:58 PM GMT+7
Hi Scott ..glad I could help ..and I'm glad you realize I'm not trying to be a smart ass about the kit ..just letting you know what I've found out ...As for the boxes I have pictures of both sides of the rear end of 232 and it has boxes (the one on the right hand side is bigger that the left )on both sides ...I have the first D kit that came out and it has the communication port in it so I guess if you sand the back flat and you scrape away the zimmerit you should be good to go .
I still haven't figured out how the support works for the turret hatch..is it welded to the side of the turret???? ..

Oh well I'll be watching your build and I'll try and help out if I can ... Have fun with the kit ..That's what's important.

Rick
P.S. I think Mig does a set of boxes for the rear of these early Panthers ..

http://www.migproductions.com/ficheros_tienda/english/amp35112.htm

thebear
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
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Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 02:03 PM GMT+7
http://www.migproductions.com/ficheros_tienda/english/amp35112.htm

Live link !
Spiff
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Nevada, United States
Joined: September 07, 2002
KitMaker: 807 posts
Armorama: 671 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 05:59 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi Scott ..glad I could help ..and I'm glad you realize I'm not trying to be a smart ass about the kit ..just letting you know what I've found out ...As for the boxes I have pictures of both sides of the rear end of 232 and it has boxes (the one on the right hand side is bigger that the left )on both sides ...I have the first D kit that came out and it has the communication port in it so I guess if you sand the back flat and you scrape away the zimmerit you should be good to go .
I still haven't figured out how the support works for the turret hatch..is it welded to the side of the turret???? ..

Oh well I'll be watching your build and I'll try and help out if I can ... Have fun with the kit ..That's what's important.

Rick
P.S. I think Mig does a set of boxes for the rear of these early Panthers ..

http://www.migproductions.com/ficheros_tienda/english/amp35112.htm




I've been doing research on this stuff long enough to know that it is never easy figuring out all the complexities and variations when it comes to German armor and it is sometimes easy to overlook even the simple things because we're too focused on digging into and researching some other bits of minutia. I always enjoy good discussion and especially appreciate it when others, such as yourself, share what they know. In the end it makes us all better informed and helps to dispel some of the myths and incorrect information both out on the web and in print. So thanks again Rick.

I'd like to see the pics you have of the boxes. I am going to study the parts and my references to see how best to approach both the boxes and the comm port.
thebear
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 08:37 PM GMT+7
Hi Scott ..I'm at work right now but I'll see what I can do tomorrow ....How bout pming me you e-mail address and I'll send them to you just for copyrights problems ..

Rick
Spiff
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Nevada, United States
Joined: September 07, 2002
KitMaker: 807 posts
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Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 08:43 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi Scott ..I'm at work right now but I'll see what I can do tomorrow ....How bout pming me you e-mail address and I'll send them to you just for copyrights problems ..

Rick



Thanks Rick, PM sent.
cach7
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New York, United States
Joined: October 13, 2002
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 439 posts
Posted: Friday, June 13, 2008 - 12:56 AM GMT+7
Scott i dont know if you are totally committed to those #s. Echelon makes another Panther mix (atx 351010) . Nine Panthers total, both A's and D's. You will just have to buy more kits. The D's are all from 2nd SS-Pz.Div "Das Reich". Three D's total,(435) (415) (401).
ausboarder
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: June 03, 2007
KitMaker: 162 posts
Armorama: 139 posts
Posted: Friday, June 13, 2008 - 02:41 AM GMT+7
I must say, thats one nice kit!

i shall keep my eyes peeled for it

keep us posted!

cheers,
smithy
Spiff
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Nevada, United States
Joined: September 07, 2002
KitMaker: 807 posts
Armorama: 671 posts
Posted: Friday, June 13, 2008 - 12:55 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Scott i dont know if you are totally committed to those #s. Echelon makes another Panther mix (atx 351010) . Nine Panthers total, both A's and D's. You will just have to buy more kits. The D's are all from 2nd SS-Pz.Div "Das Reich". Three D's total,(435) (415) (401).



That is a nice decal set which I will pick up eventually. I spend a lot of time researching the 2nd SS Das Reich and have a Tiger and StuG which I recently completed in Das Reich markings at Kursk. Naturally I'm going to need a Das Reich Panther.

The dilemma with the Das Reich set and the one I've already purchased is the same - the configuration of Dragon's Panther Ausf. D w/zimmerit is slightly later than the schemes for the decals as they all belonged to Panther Ausf. D with the communications port on the left side of the turret.
thebear
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Friday, June 13, 2008 - 02:49 PM GMT+7
Hi Scott ....Daughter's gone off with my camera ,so I'm sorry I can't get the pictures to you today but as soon as I can I'll send them ...bummer about the zimmerit eh!

Rick
thebear
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 02:32 PM GMT+7
Hi Scott ...better late than never ..pictures were sent ..

Rick
Spiff
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Nevada, United States
Joined: September 07, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 06:39 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi Scott ...better late than never ..pictures were sent ..

Rick



Excellent pictures and exactly what I needed! Thank you my friend!