Hi All,

I'm researching to build a ASLAV-25 in 1:35 if possible. Due to the many variations of these LAVs I'm finding it tricky to find what I need in terms of after market parts and kits.

I was hoping build and Australian ASLAV-A version (ambulance) or the PC (personnel carrier) but have found conversions or kits hard to come by. Therefore I'll probably be happy to build the ASLAV-25 version based on the USMC LAV-25 Piranha kit by Trumpeter (due to good reviews). I was hoping to also build this with some grilled armor seen in the earlier days of the Australian deployment in Iraq. I will be purchasing the wheel set from Mouse House.

I'm just wondering if anyone can recomend any other after mqarket sets to help me detail this kit nicely. As I say i'd like to add grid armor (similar to eduards stryker armor) to it but I haven't seen any sets yet availavle for this.

Any pointers or recomendations would be greatly apreciated.

Cheers

Mouse House makes several ASLAV conversions....including the PC.

There is not aftermarket set for the ASLAV bar armour.

Aftermarket sets you can look for are....

-ASLAV conversions...Mouse House
-XML tires...Maple Leaf Models
-metal barrel.....Barrel Depot

G'day Matt,
If you want to model an ASLAV PC or 25 from say the mid 90's on to about early 2003, Mouse House have both of the conversions you can use. Both kits can be used for East Timor and the 1st and 2nd rotations in Iraq.
Maple Leaf (as Jason said) or use the Trumpeter vinyl tyres and the Mouse hubs.
And yes I am affiliated with the above.





We never stopped using the Bar Armour. As it is mission applicable, the crews will take it on and off when required.

Have a look in my gallery for more ASLAV kit stuff.

Cheers Jason

Now we're talkin"
I incorrectly called the Australian armour for ASLAV's as slat armour, I should have called it bar armour.

I believe Seb was making some bar armour for one of his projects using a frame of styrene with fishing line strung through holes drilled in the frame, how's that going Seb? That might be applicable here.
Here are some shots of an ASLAV Ambulance not sure how to tell which series they are, one two or three.

G'day Bill,
The PC in the first photo is a Phase II and the ones in the bottom photos are Phase III.
I hope to have a few images of the Bar Armour soon.

Cheers Jason

Jason
How can you tell the difference between the three? Any rules of thumb?
Looking forward to your pics of bar armour.
Bill

I think (?) that most vehicles fitted with bar armour would be of the Phase III development.
Correct me if I'm wrong Jason

Gary,
I think Bill means the difference between Phase II and Phase III. Not Type's.

Bill, you can’t see it very well in the first photo, but the main changes on the Phase III PC is the C/C cupola and hatch (however, some still retain the older style), Trim vane, mirror guards and extended exhaust shroud and a few other bits and pieces. The cupola also has the ability to fit the ADI mount for the RWS. Or the Seal Solutions/Spider mount over the engine deck. As for the interior, I’m not going to go there. To much to think about.

David, The Bar Armour will fit PII or PIII. It makes no difference as all the mounting points for the armour hang off existing points on the hull and none of these have changed. The same goes for the Type III’s Fitters/Recovery.


Cheers Jason

Oh and one other point, most ambo's in the MEAO dont fit the RWS.

Cheers Jason

Thanks for that Jason.

Jason
Thanks for the clarification, I'd have to have pics of each one so I could learn the differences.
Thanks Gary for the link, it brought to mind another question. Do all the ASLAV PC's have the Canadian Bison rear raised portion? I realize that Australia has made this configuration their own with various modifications but does the actual form of the basic vehicle look like the Canadian Bison? Are these vehicles built in Australia?
MEAO please explain.
Thanks for your patience.
Bill

Just a comment about Australian 25mm fluted barrels for ASLAV25s. The muzzle brake is round and has 3 rows of 4 vents. Mouse armour make one in pewter. Most other 25mm barrels on the market seem to be of the US design with only two rows of vents in the muzzle brakes.

John M

When the Australian Army first trailled the LAV25 and LAV R they also "borrowed" some Bisons to trail. The hull configuration of the bison is similar to the ASLAV Type 2 (APC) hull but definitely not the same. All vehicles I beleive were built in Canada, but the Delco turret is now manufactuered and exported to other countries.

JM

John
Aren't you supposed to be on holidays? ;o)
Good point about the fluted barrel and the Delco turret, I think Jason Bobrowich and I had this conversation some time before. Is the Delco turret the same as on the Coyote and the Cdn. LAVIII?
The reason I'm so interested about the genealogy of the Bison/ASLAV PC is because I have a Bison partially built and I hit a wall trying to figure out the angle of the small wall just behind the commanders hatch. I built mine at 90 degrees to the ground but I have seen many pics where the wall looks angled back just a tad. If the ASLAV PC is the same construction I'll have your resin to consult when it makes it's way across the ocean. As well, not be too far off topic, Luc Desormeaux just posted a thorough walk around of a modern Canadian Bison here
http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/thread/1213750161/Bison+MRV+images+uploaded perhaps my answer is there?
Sorry for hi jacking your thread Matt.
Best to all Bill

Thanks all for your responses. I never thought so many of us would be interested in these vehicles. In my research I've found a great site for reference pics of Aussie ASLAVs at a defence site here http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/news/article004/index.htm

Interestingly it details how the grill armour was abandoned due to perceived reduced threat of RPG attack compared to the risk of accidents with road vehicles. Currently I've ordered the trumpeter lav-25 piranha kit (after reading a good review on perthmilitarymodelling.com)with a goal of building a standard ASLAV-25 (phase II) with the updates available from mouse house. I still like the idea of building grill armour and looking at reference pics available at the link above can imagine it being a good scratch build project.

The idea of building an ambulance version is still on the agenda but I kind of need to figure out what kit best represents this version and compiling my list of kits needed.

Thanks again....I'm bound to be posting updates and picking your brains again soon when I get stuck.

Hello All,
Here are some of the major differences between variants. Canada has variants within their own fleet of vehicles FOO, APC, RECCE. The most notable differences between configuration is the location of sight heads, antennas, laser warning receivers and crosswind senor locations on vehicles. All shells are essentially identical and tailored to whatever the customer wants. I could go into greater detail but since this is an open forum I won't. In some cases you could be standing next to a turret and find it extremely hard to tell the differnces between configurations. They are essentially plug and play systems if your hull meets certain specs.

Canadian Turrets: 170 Volt Drive, Laser Warning Receiver, Elite 1 & 2 Laser, DIM36 Sight, DTAS Thermal, CSAM (Crew Situational Awareness Monitor)

ASLAV Turrets: 28 Volt Drive, Laser, Gunner DTAS - DIM36TH with Thales Laser, Commander M36

NZLAV Turrets: 28 Volt Drive, Laser Warning Receiver, DTAS Sight & Thales Laser, CSAM (Crew Situational Awareness Monitor)

SANG Turrets: 28 Volt Drive, Thales Laser, Gunner ITSS Sight, Commander DIM36 DayBody, J-Tec Crosswind Sensor.

USMC Turrets: 28 Volt Drive, Thales Laser, Gunner ITSS Sight, Commander DIM36 DayBody, J-Tec Crosswind Sensor, NFM North Finding Module.




Andy

Andy
Very interesting description. Could you find pictures (and post them) and indicate which is what on the various turrets, unless of course OPSEC is an issue. It would just be some much easier (for me at least) to see
a Laser Warning Receiver, Elite 1 & 2 Laser, DIM36 Sight, DTAS Thermal, CSAM (Crew Situational Awareness Monitor) in situ on an ASLAV say compared to a Canadian LAV turret? Understanding what I'm looking at certainly enhances my appreciation for what I model.
Here is a very concise explanation of the Phases and Types nomenclature
http://www.mheaust.com.au/Aust/Research/ASLAV/ASLAV%20nomeclature.htm
Thanks
Bill

MEAO - Middle East Area Operations. (ie Iraq, Afghanistan)

Boggie - The forward section of the rear hull is indeed exactly the same as a Bison. Ive searched my albums but i can find any photos that show the angle very clearly, but ill keep looking. It only a a slight angle and in most photos it looks vertical.

Matt - Externally the ASLAV Ambulance is identical to a ASLAV PC (minus the red cross). It a Mission Role Kit that can be bolted into any PC turning it into an Ambo. Im not sure if any Ambos have been fitted with an RWS, ill find out and get back to you.

Also, the easiest way to id a phase 3 PC is the commanders cupola and the 12.7mm pintle mount. Phase 3 has a large traverse handwheel and a flat hatch. Phase 2 has no handwheel and has handles where the commander swings it around manually. the hatch has a buldge in it similar to the drivers.

No Phase 2 ever had an RWS, so if it has one its a Phase 3. The old phase 2 swing mount is retro fitted and is what the RWS is mounted on, its just swung around to the 3 o'clock postion, bolted down and the RWS is mounted where the old 12.7 pintle mount goes.

Also, Phase 2 was not fitted with an IVNS, so if it has the digital compass antenna, Its a Phase 3.

Bill
I was able to do some photos of the outside of a Bushmaster a few days ago, so I will have some info for you when I get back next week. I also have some GM Canada scale plans of the Bison so i will be able to answer your question when i get home

Good result all around

John M

Hi again,

After looking at Mouse House personnel carrier conversion I have decided to go back with the original ambulance version for my project.

I'm now wondering what peoples thoughts of road wheel update sets are. The Maple Leaf xml tyrels look great but at $40 I'm struggling to decide on these or the Trumpeter 8x8 set which come in much cheaper. According to perthmilitarymodelling.com the trumpeter wheel update set is quite good (albeit with slightly shallow wheel hubs). All the photos I've seen of the ambulance ASLAV so far don't show these vehicles carrying a spare wheel which falls in favour with the latter set.

Anyone made this decision before me willing to give their thoughts please?

Cheers all

Easy Matt,
Buy the Mouse House Hubs MA121 and the Trumpeter XML tyres. The Hubs cost $10 and the Trump ones cost about $16-18. The MHE hubs were made to fit the back part of the trumpeter hubs. Push them onto the axles of the ASLAV and your all done.

The Trumpeter Hubs are not correct for ASLAV. Hence we made new ones to fit the XML tyres.

Cheers Jason

Cheers Jason,

Sorry mate, just as I was compiling my order list I found these hubs. Nice idea... and perfect for my budget.

Another item added to my list

Cheers

Ray
Well done, very clearly said, kinda like the birders guide to ASLAV's my kind of explanation.
As I posted earlier in this thread Luc Desormeaux took a staggering 148 pictures of a Bison at a recent event in Quebec City. Here is one that got my attention

But if you can find yours I'd like to compare. As you say they do look to be right angles in a lot of pictures.
John
Better yet if you have the GM scale plans this will be a done deal. A Canadian fellow named George Bradford http://www.afvnews.ca/
http://www.afvnews.ca/1-35g.html
has done up literally hundreds of 1/35th and 1/48th scale drawings (for a small fee) of any armour used in any conflict by many countries including the Bison.Unfortunately the angle that I have been looking for is not obvious...at least to me. So these GM plans would be golden. As are any and all images of the Bushmaster. On a side note Jim Carswell has finished casting the Bushmaster wheels and they are in the mail as we speak.
This is a very informative thread.
Best wishes to all
Bill

First Photo is a ASLAV PC Phase 2.
Note the 12.7mm QCB Pintle mount and the Commanders Cupola.


Now compare that to an ASLAV PC Phase 3.
Its an Ambo, but like i said, externally the same as an ASLAV PC. Note the Cupola Has a Traverse Handwheel (commanders hand is resting on it), the Hatch is flat with no buldge in it, and a different QCB mount. Also, only Phase 3 has the red and blue (clear when off) flashing LED's that can be seen mounted above the headlights, and the siren box above the left headlight. Thats not Ambo specific, all ASLAVs in the MEAO have this fitted. And notice that the Trim Vane Extension and all the Brush guards around the headlights, Grenade launchers and marine drive have been removed. These are removed to fit Bar Armor, so most if not all ASLAVS in Iraq have these items removed as they all were once fitted with Bar armor. Bar armor is mission specific and can be fitted and removed by the crew.


ASLAV PC Phase 3.
Boggie, best photo i could find showing the angle you are after. Circled is the Siren box i was on about, and the Phase 3 only GPS antenna. On a ASLAV 25 Phase 3, the GPS antenna is mounted on the rear of the turret on one of the existing mounts. Also notice that the Phase 2 cupola is used to fit the RWS. You can see it is at 3 o'clock, thats why the commanders hatch opens to the side and has the buldge in it similar to the drivers hatch. There is another type of mount in service now, but i cant comment as i have never seen it.


ASLAV 25 Phase 2.
Circled is the commanders sight head. On a Phase 3 this is different in that it exactly the same as the Gunners sight head seen in this photo. Also circled is the rear antenna mount, this is where the Digital compass antenna is mounted on Phase 3.


ASLAV 25 Phase 3
I lifted this photo off the ADF website. Circled is the digital compass antenna i was on about, you can see where it is mounted on the PC in the background. Note the commanders sight head. Also note the large stowage bin on the right hand side of the ASLAV 25. This is part of the Bar armor kit, and makes up for the space lost when the turret bustle bins are removed to fit it.
Most ASLAV 25s in Iraq still retain the Turret bar armor even if the Hull kit is removed. ASLAV 25s in Afghanistan dont. The spotlight mounted on the manlet of the car in the foreground is a crew addition, some chose to do it and other choose to keep it as a handheld. And another thing to note is that i have seen some photos of ASLAV 25's in Baghdad having two flex mount machine guns, one on the Commanders side and one on the Gunners side.


ASLAV 25 Phase 3
Sharing this photo because its awesome. Check the 25mm projectile on the far right of photo.
This is as seen in Australia. No bar armor so all the turret bustle bins and brush gaurds are in place. The bracket to mount the Gas bottle on the side of the rear turret bustle bin is also a Phase 3 addition. As is the bin on the side of the hull that is for the removable drivers windscreen (that ive never ever seen used). Also note that all Phase 3 ASLAV 25's have the spare tyre carrier, however it can be removed and has been on some. Phase 2 had one as well, but it was a locally manufactured item and was of a different design. You can spot a Phase 3 one because the new design required the left hand tail light to be moved slightly outboard. For info the Mouse House tyre mount is Phase 3 and comes with a new tailight and bracket to suit. Also note that on this car the crew has painted the triangle Tac sign upside down....


Oh and one more thing. All ASLAVs in the MEAO are fitted with Spall lining. This means that the Rear vision blocks that can be seen in the last photo, and the ones in the rear doors are removed and welded up.

Hope that helps in Phase 2 / Phase 3 identification. There are other differences, but those are the easy ones to spot.

Ray
Real good of you to go through all this trouble, it really helps define differences. I will have to study all this so I am better able to see the differences. What a great Osprey publication, Modern Australian Armour.
As for the angle of the small wall behind the commanders hatch there seems to be a slight dimensional difference between the two and so makes me wonder if the angle is the same or not, have a look.


These builds could be years apart and to changing specs.
Thanks again for your care in putting this together,
Regards
Bill

Yep not sure mate. I think if there is a difference it must be tiny, or it may look different because the Bison has that small step on the edge of the upper hull.

Ray
When John shows me the Bison plans from General Motors I'll find this thread and let you know. I think that step in the side of the Bison does contribute to an illusion, you're right. And the fact that one shot is looking slightly down and the other slightly up doesn't help either. Perhaps some one that has a Bison and/or a ASLAV PC in their back yard could measure the angle for us?
I look forward to my pile of Mouse House resin.
Thanks for your help Ray.
Bill

Greetings all,
I haven't posted much in the past (don't get much opportunity to do so), but couldn't pass the chance to clear up some confusion about the Phase 2 & 3 ASLAVs.

For people thinking of building a PC, the only concern you should have is the time frame you want the vehicle to represent (ie. Timor, pre-2002, etc), as ALL Ph2 ASLAVs were retrofitted to Ph3 standard during 2003-04.

As such, there are no Ph2 vehicles in service - all are maintained under the Ph3 banner.
The differences between a "standardised Ph2" and a current Ph3 are minimal and probably not worth the effort in the smaller scales.
All Type II vehicles (PC, Comd, etc) in Aust are fitted with a Platt designed commanders mount, which replaced the Diemarco mount.
The only Diemarco mounts left fitted to vehicles (in Aust) will be the ones mounting RWS, which are to be replaced with the SEAL mount soon.

Any differences between T-1 vehicles (Commanders Sight, spare wheel carriers, etc) will be that those vehicles have not yet been modified. This is the biggest area I see people getting confused, as modifying the fleet can sometimes take 2 years to complete.

William,
in regards to the area behind the C/C I will check our vehicle at work and measure that plate for you.

Cheers

Brett

Brett
Thanks for wading in.I did a search for Diemarco mount but nothing resembling a mount showed. Is it a semi circular rail that the gun mount attaches to?Like this?

or is it the one shown in some of the images in this thread, the ASLAV PC ambulance in Ray's posting above for instance?
The Platt Mounts like this


Or this unknown to me



So when you say the wheel mount are you referring to the (non PC) one currently being sold by Mouse House, the one that swings out to the side or another?

Many thanks for these clarifications and I'd appreciate the measurements of the wall behind the commanders cupola, thankyou.
Regards
Bill