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Italeri 1/35 scale S-100 Schnellboot
awiskerke
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Netherlands
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 01:08 AM UTC
I finally posted some photos, 10 in the gallery I think ,not terribly modest perhaps(I'm not sure if it worked, I haven't quite got the hang of it). And I will try to post some here:







Some of the pics probably show what I mean when I said there doesn't seem to be any room to add the struts I mentioned before. Some further comments: The worm gear thing at the bow that opens the torpedo tube doors doesn't really look like the real thing. The main vents (there is no pic of them yet) should not be straight as Italeri made them but should gently curve outward (for an unimpeded airflow). Pity Italeri didn't make the navigation lights out of clear plastic (I'm still dithering whether or not to make my own of clear material and put leds in them). The grips on the tube lids are positioned in the middle whereas there is a photo of the right hand tube that shows a grip in the half past 10 position (bit of a strange way of putting it perhaps). I like the pe a lot, I used Gator's Acrylic Hobby Glue for this (which is my modest contribution to the U.S. economy). I really think it's great stuff, works so much easier than superglue and it's easy to remove excess (it's not suitable though for really tiny pe pieces). Perhaps someone can tell what the function is of the pe rack which can be seen in the second pic here, left on the backpanel (bulkhead?) of the bridge ( perhaps for charts, binoculars or a first-aid kit?)

Regards,

Arjan
beefy66
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 01:39 AM UTC
Arjan in the first photo is that the skylights filled in you say are not on the later boats. As to the second photo looks like that is a chart rack or even for other navigation equipment
awiskerke
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 01:55 AM UTC
Hi Keith,
I think you must be right about the chart rack. This item does look different in the 1/72 Revell kit though (the general shape is the same but it's not really a rack there). The photo does indeed show the skylights I filled in. The pictures in the gallery are much clearer though. When I posted them they were in the area of your pt pics I believe. I''m not a computerwizard though and I don't know if you can view them or not. I can still view them but then I have to click on my name. Help in this respect would be appreciated, I think it's all terribly complicated.

Regards,

Arjan

Postscript: I see they are in the member gallery, can you view them Keith?
beefy66
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 02:09 AM UTC
[img][http://gallery.kitmaker.net/data/17291/10912.JPG/img]
beefy66
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 02:16 AM UTC
I ,am no wizard at this either but I think you are using the millitary small craft gallery??
which if I ,am thinking is sending pics to you photo file. You need to click on the pic you want to post in the larger view then copy and paste this to the thread I think, but some expert out there maybe will give you a hand like they have done for me sooo many times.There is a link some where with the instructions on posting photo,s,even so i still get it wrong again and again
awiskerke
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 02:56 AM UTC
Well this way seemed to work:








I have also been thinking about crew figures. I bought Italeri's PT-crew some weeks ago and although they are useful as a basis, the hands and to a lesser extent the faces really let them down. I will probably use some converted SS tankmen (in leather U-boot suits) and Dragon's Naval troops Dieppe set for the S- boot crew. I included a pic of Joachim Peiper to give an idea (his face has not been finished yet) . That doesn't mean that I won't buy Italeri's Schnellboot crew though when it becomes available.

Arjan
TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 03:37 AM UTC
I must say ...

That's an impressively-sized model! And, it looks to be well detailed OOB .... but what do I know, I am sure I'll be corrected on that point.
awiskerke
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 05:03 AM UTC
Hi Garth,
For me the detail is good enough (apart from some rivets and other small things). I don't usually purchase aftermarket metal barrels and things. Of course one could add quite a bit of extra detail to the firing mechanism of the torpedotubes but most of it will be obscured by the Kalotte anyway, so what's the point. The same goes for the interior of the pilothouse, there's a nice steeringwheel, throttles and things but you won't see much of it once you put the kalotte on. By the way, I have now seen your Revell S-boat model and article. The model looks great . I must say that the total cost of the project was rather staggering and you didn't even include reference material in the total amount.... Sometimes I spend more money on reference material than on the model itself.

Regards,

Arjan
TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 05:43 AM UTC
Well, that's why I do those IN ACTION books, ha ha ha ha .................
beefy66
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 06:32 AM UTC
Arjan Master Box do some nice tank crew at rest playing cards I was thinking of doing a dockside dio with these and a Opel Blitz with some amo boxes and gerry cans on the dock as though the ship was geting restocked. Some of the new Miniart stuff looks usefull aswell
awiskerke
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 07:14 AM UTC
Hi Keith, I know the Masterbox sets very well , they have some very unusual subjects but I must admit that I usually exchange the heads for Hornet ones. I sent you a private message, I think we are supposed to stick to nautical subjects here .

Arjan
awiskerke
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 10:17 PM UTC
The photo bottom right shows what the main vents should look like. It also shows the shape of the struts behind the torpedotubes. Unfortunately the quality of the pics isn't great.


Arjan
beefy66
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 12:02 AM UTC
Some usfull photo,s once they are blown up to see better where are you getting info and photos from any particular book or site would like to get this info for my own referance.
Thought a dockside dio with a BIG boat in it was sort of nautical
awiskerke
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 01:23 AM UTC
Hi Keith, it was the message I sent that wasn't nautical, part of it anyway. I have already mentioned most of my reference material in previous posts (and provided links to these sites). The photos stem from the Prinz Eugen site, which is probably the best Schnellboot site (I provided the link in my 2nd posting). The Squadron/Signal book Schnellboot in Action is probably the most comprehensive book at a relatively low cost. My favourite book is Deutsche Schnellboote 1939-1945 by Jean-Philippe Dallies-Labourdette. It provides a lot of additional info and some great pictures (also of the various types of mine that Schnellboote laid, after all minelaying was one of the most important tasks of S-boote). This book was written by a Frenchman, it was translated into English and after that into German. I've got a German copy and I obtained it through Amazon.de. I'm sure Amazon.uk can also provide it . This morning I happened to see that the Italeri kit is also being discussed on the Finescalemodeller's forum , there is a great pic of a mine by one of my fellow countrymen:
http://cs.finescale.com/forums/3/1053752/ShowPost.aspx
Some useful sites I haven't mentioned so far:
http://schnellboot.net/de/kriegsmarine/index.html
http://www.histarmar.com.ar/InfGral/Schnellboote-Ppal.htm
I also bought the book: Korvettenkapitän Werner Töniges, Der erste Eichenlaubträger der Schnellbootwaffe. I cannot recommend this book though, it is terribly disappointing in terms of info and pictures.

Arjan
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 03:31 PM UTC
That is some beautiful work Arjan.

Kenny
awiskerke
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 09:54 PM UTC
Thanks Kenny for your kind remark. A book I forgot to mention in the above is: German E-boats 1939-45 of the New Vanguard series (Osprey publishing). It's not a great book compared to the Squadron one (about the same price range). Still there are a handful of pics in it that I haven't come across elsewhere and one in particular is worth mentioning. On page 11 there is a pic of two Kalotte-type S-boats that are berthed side by side. One of these has been stripped of all external fittings (or they haven't been fitted yet ?) in any case even the torpedo tubes are absent. This is a blessing in disguise because it offers a clear view of the rear of the pilothouse. The photo clearly shows the curved vents and the struts I have mentioned so often. Moreover,it reveals that there is a whole series of struts on the inside of the sidepanels (extension of the hull) of the Kalotte, running the length of the torpedo tube. This makes perfect sense when you think about it (in terms of structural integrity). This obviously also accounts for the rows of rivets on the hull extensions (each vertical row represents a strut/interior bracing). Silly that I hadn't thought of this before... I had been fooled by the pic I posted earlier (with the hand wheels), here the whole pilothouse had been blown away by the crew, obviously ripping off the complete Kalotte including the interior struts... I have by now also measured the 20 mm ammo lockers and found them to be within acceptable tolerances (dimensions of the real thing in 1/35: length 2.28 cm, height 1.28 cm, width 1.71 cm). The tops, however, should be level and not sloped. Once more this is the same mistake (their being sloped) present in the Revell kit. It's abundantly clear by now that Italeri have simply scaled up the 1/72 Revell model to 1/35 scale, not bothering to correct mistakes or to do any further research. The only thing they corrected concerns the tube lids which now at least open in the right direction....

Arjan
awiskerke
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Posted: Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 08:55 PM UTC
Another thing I forgot to mention is that the sliding door (with the porthole window) of the wheelhouse isn't correct for an S-100 type, this being a feature of the S-38 boats. The Prinzeugen site has a clear pic of what it should look like. Personally I'm not going to correct this because you won't see anything of these doors once the Kalotte has been fitted. I fitted some struts this week but I must confess that any further progress has now been stifled by some nagging doubts about the rear end of the torpedotubes. Something is terribly wrong with the dimensions because the opened lids of the tubes seem to extend too far to the rear (the previously mentioned handwheels pic would seem to confirm this theory). Having added the rear struts, the lids cannot be fully opened, whereas this should obviously be possible. I'm dithering whether or not to simply chop off some 5 mm(or more) from these tubes which would seem to solve the problem. The tubes happen to be quite a bit longer than the torpedoes themselves (which if anything, are slightly too long compared to the originals) but this is probably as it should be ? On the other hand I could simply wait till someone else comes up with a bright idea, a clear pic or a drawing..... In this state of mind, it's not uncommon for me to continue with another ongoing project, or worse still, to start a wholly new one ....

Arjan
awiskerke
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Posted: Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 02:46 AM UTC
I think I managed to solve the problem described above by cutting off some 2.5 mm from the tubes. The lids can now be opened sufficiently to allow a torpedo to be loaded. Scratching the struts is a tedious, time consuming business (a process of trial and error). The photo in the Osprey book shows that the foot of the second strut has a trapezium shape whereas the other struts have a smaller triangular base. The tops of the struts cannot be seen in this photo but I discovered that the handwheel pic does indeed show the top of the second strut (faintly visible immediately in front of the first wheel). It has a curved shape similar (but slightly smaller?) to that of the rear struts. So contrary to what I said earlier, these struts were not blown away by the explosion but they are merely invisible due to the bad quality of the photograph. I also relocated the handwheels. As can be seen in the pics I didn't bother to add bases or curved tops to the 3rd and 4th strut . The feet will be hidden by the tubes anyway and you will probably not be able to see the tops once the Kalotte has been added. Apart from the triangular feet this is what nr. 3 and 4 look like in the Osprey picture. The first and second strut are a bit on the short side ( 1 mm or so) but I was so fed up with these struts I didn't bother to make yet another set (perhaps I will do so later).






Arjan
awiskerke
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Posted: Monday, December 22, 2008 - 10:47 PM UTC
In the last few days I briefly examined the secondary armament to see what surprises are in store for the unsuspecting modeller here. The 2 cm C/38 gun in the bow should be able to elevate from 0 to 85 degrees. The highest elevation of the Italeri gun, however, amounts to some 20 degrees... I can't quite put my finger on what is wrong here because there is little clear reference material on this gun (anybody?). The twin 20 mm gun doesn't appear to be too bad apart from some missing details (one of which is the gunsight). If you intend to build the Lang or the Ha-Ju version however, you will have to add a helmet rack on the inside of the gunshield (top left). The 3.7 cm flak M42 is quite passable as well, although there is quite a bit of scope for improvements. The most noticeable error is the wrong shape of the "arms" (don't know what the correct term is) on which the sights are mounted . Fortunately, some very good pictures of this weapon are available for those who feel inclined to correct the mistakes and to further pimp this modelgun. If you are going to build the versions already mentioned, however, you will have to add sidepanels to the gunshield on which non-standard helmet racks were also fitted.

Arjan
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Posted: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 - 03:27 AM UTC
More great work Arjan!

Kenny
awiskerke
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Posted: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 - 08:35 PM UTC
Thanks Kenny, it should be clear though that I've been leaning heavily on the work done by others. By now I understand that includes Garth (I hadn't noticed that he contributed to the Squadron book before he told me ....). The one I've been leaning on the most, though, is the German who wrote the Baubericht on the Revell model. Yesterday I happened to come across his name on a forum but I forgot to jot it down, and now I also forgot how I managed to find this forum... I downloaded a photo of his handywork that is not in the Baubericht. It shows how gründlich (thorough) these Germans can be. The picture is of the chartroom of the Revell model:

Yesterday I also came across the title of a book on Schnellboote that I hadn't seen before. Could someone tell me if Warship Pictorial 15 Kriegsmarine Schnellboote by Steve Wiper would add much to the books I already have, especially in terms of photos?

Arjan
awiskerke
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Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 - 01:06 AM UTC
As usual, I have been pouring over photos a lot. I found that the two small hatches (if that's what they are) are missing from the foredeck (near the "treadplates" closest to the Kalotte). I have noticed that these are missing in most drawings and models (even my German hero failed to notice them ). I don't know what their function is. I posted a photo of Albert Speer visiting a U-Boot in which one of the two can be clearly seen. I also found a pic of a postwar Danish S-100 that shows the bowgun in some detail.


I have also been pondering on whether handgrips should be fitted to the tops of the main vents (Italeri provided some pe ones, which being flat, are quite useless anyway). I don't see any in pics of the Lang and the Ha-Jü boats though. They are present, however, in pics of earlier boats such as the "KeK" boat. It also struck me that the tops of the vents of the Ha-Jü boat were painted dark grey, unlike the Schnellbootweiss of the Lang vents.

Arjan
TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 - 03:01 AM UTC
Arjan,

May I ask where it is that you are finding those photos? They are very, very interesting ...

Garth
awiskerke
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Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 - 03:35 AM UTC
Hi Garth,
The Speer pic stems from The German Federal Archive. Loads of pictures here, they can be viewed by year, simply go to the year you want to view and click... This should keep you off the street for a while... There are loads of armour pics, Pioniere (engineer) pics (which is one of my passions), pics of Sturmboote, Siebelfähren, Bismarck, U-Boots etc. There are only a few Schnellboot pics though. If you don't want to go through 5 years of war pics I will post them for you.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Images_from_the_German_Federal_Archive_by_year
By the way, first click on the pic before downloading because that will give you HD quality. I didn't know that and I had to download hundreds of pics once again....
Some other links I've discovered recently:
http://www.kdstf.de/html/erinnerungen.html
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/km/sboot/sfl-frames.htm
The Danish pic stems from this site:
http://www.navalhistory.dk/english/Weapons/Guns_after1945/20mmM39.htm
I also downloaded a number of pics from a British site (pics of British warbooty S-boote) and from a French forum (a private collection of S- boote based in France). I can't give you the links of either because I forgot how I got on these sites. Besides, you don't want me to lay all my cards on the table do you ?

Arjan
TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 - 07:02 AM UTC
Thank you Arjan.