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Ships by Class/Type: Military Small Craft
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Hosted by Todd Michalak
Italeri 1/35 scale S-100 Schnellboot
awiskerke
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Netherlands
Joined: December 09, 2008
KitMaker: 285 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Friday, May 29, 2009 - 02:22 PM UTC
Hi Chris,
All the work you put into this project has definitely paid off, you made a most impressive model ! I love the paintjob. I wonder if your project is really over now, no more dodgers or figures?

Arjan
mcdurd
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Virginia, United States
Joined: March 17, 2005
KitMaker: 121 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Friday, May 29, 2009 - 03:18 PM UTC
Thank you gentlemen!

Everyone's assistance and willingness to provide pictures and such were a great help - and often gave me headache every time I had to add something that Italeri missed .

I am not good with figures - maybe in the future I might add a few for perspective. I did strongly consider the dodgers but I decided to leave them off to show more detail.

Chris
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 624 posts
Armorama: 259 posts
Posted: Friday, May 29, 2009 - 04:44 PM UTC
Hi Chris,
what a wonderful e-boat and a great paintjob!
I have to pay my full ... and I hope, my hidden beast will appear on the horizon soon...

Michael
Robert75013
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Paris, France
Joined: March 08, 2009
KitMaker: 242 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 03:23 AM UTC
Hi Chris.

Beautiful painting! Now that you've got training with your model, if you ever come to Paris on a holiday, feel free to paint mine! Wine will be at will.

And if anyone asks about the crew, you can always say they went out for a beer!

Bravo again!
Robert
beefy66
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England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: October 22, 2007
KitMaker: 964 posts
Armorama: 280 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 08:27 AM UTC
Chris beautifull work on the build and paint learning a lot from this thread thank you all
Silantra
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Putrajaya, Malaysia
Joined: March 04, 2004
KitMaker: 2,474 posts
Armorama: 881 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 09:56 AM UTC
Chris,

awesome build man....all the works paid off...
i have to admit seing this thread made me bought the s-boot but it's the revell kit.....

congrats
Robert75013
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Paris, France
Joined: March 08, 2009
KitMaker: 242 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 11:34 AM UTC
No, No, No! Much is too much!!!
I've started studying the rear side of the bridge and the discoveries found made me (almost) lose my temper.
Either I should give up drinking coffee or forget my Italian origines!
Whatever, I want to thank here again the Italeri's research dept. for their amazing and useless job in collecting sources that helped them to release the kit! Grazie, Italeri!

These pictures, plus the ones in the Squadron book, pages 24, 25, 27 and 28 demonstrate again major errors (Arjan, take your pen and add them to your looooong list. ) concerning this section of the boat. Here are the abnormalities which I was able to find:

1- there is definitively a gangplank running all the way and underneath the large rectangle (part 33F), where the helmet rack is supposed to be.
2- could that circular box be enclosing the ventilator as John Murphy in his March issue of MMI, suggests it?
3- what could they be, does anyone know? Obviously, not closets...
4- an helmet rack holding two helmets is visible on the back of the bridge, above the rectangle in Squadron, page 24 to the left inside.

I am looking for pictures of S-188, S-195, S-199 showing the rear of the boats to check if they had the same bridge back looking, curved mine rails, etc. Has anyone got such little treasures in his drawers?

Robert

PS: Chris, don't plan a trip to Paris before next year. My boat will maybe be finished by then!
Removed by original poster on 05/31/09 - 08:44:12 (GMT).
awiskerke
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Netherlands
Joined: December 09, 2008
KitMaker: 285 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 03:48 PM UTC
Hi Robert,
I already added these points to my list some months ago I think there was a shelf underneath the catwalk for storing things. This would explain why the ventilator and the square box? were relocated. This catwalk was probably pretty handy, besides some earlier boats (S-30 type) also had a similar configuration. The catwalk also necessitated the relocation of the helmet racks, although I only know one pic of an S-38b boat that had the helmet racks more or less in the Italeri configuration (Dallies etc. page 119).

Cheers,

Arjan
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 624 posts
Armorama: 259 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 07:14 PM UTC
Hi Robert and Arjan,
I think you are right, there's something stowed under the catwalk - maybe signal flags or something near the "flag mans" working place
On S-205 HaJü that catwalk was only a slatted frame layed between the two platforms left and right besides the great box:

also usable as a gangway - on the pic, it's folded up.

Michael
mcdurd
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Virginia, United States
Joined: March 17, 2005
KitMaker: 121 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 08:30 PM UTC
Hello all -

Thank you for your kind words but I don't care how many pictures of stowage boxes and gangplanks you show me - I am done !!!!!

Seriously, this will be added to my review article that I will start writing this week - 1 more opportunity missed by Italeri.

Chris
Robert75013
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Paris, France
Joined: March 08, 2009
KitMaker: 242 posts
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Posted: Monday, June 01, 2009 - 07:18 AM UTC
Hi guys,

Thanks once more for the picture, Wizard Michael!

You may have noticed it already, but I just wanted to point out one more spotted error. Groan, groan...

The "ladders" located on both sides of the large rectangle that support the square platforms plus the bell to what concerns the right one and to which also the folding over gangway links the platforms, only have ONE and not two handholds. Ascoli's picture (page 20) makes is very clear.

I'm getting practically bald, do not have any more hair to be torn away!

Robert
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 624 posts
Armorama: 259 posts
Posted: Monday, June 01, 2009 - 11:07 AM UTC
Hi Robert,
what parts you mean?
33/40E+87D for the left and 34/39E+87D for the right side? And there would have been only the outer handholds on both sides?
I believe there are both handholds, even on the Ascoli pic:


Michael
PS: You are searching for pics from the backside of the bridge; here's an interesting one from S-38b-class


... and keep your hair!
awiskerke
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Netherlands
Joined: December 09, 2008
KitMaker: 285 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Monday, June 01, 2009 - 11:48 AM UTC
Hi gents,
Some days ago someone on the Marine Archiv Forum posted a link to German radar devices. Michael probably knows it already but some may not :
http://www.cdvandt.org/
By the way Robert it would be justifiable to tear out at least three more hairs in that three of the four striker rails have shapes not seen on Lang nor on Ha-Jü

Arjan

I forgot to mention that most rail-stanchions have a circular base which for purists is obviously unacceptable. That means some forty more hairs I'm afraid.....
gordinir8
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Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: October 05, 2005
KitMaker: 16 posts
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Posted: Monday, June 01, 2009 - 01:28 PM UTC
Everybody,
Eduard post pictures of the new s-100 PE set in their site. Look at June releases and tell me what u think.
Thomas
awiskerke
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Netherlands
Joined: December 09, 2008
KitMaker: 285 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Monday, June 01, 2009 - 02:22 PM UTC
Hi Thomas,
Both sets contain a lot of really useful parts that will save a lot of scratch work. I especially like the gun shields. I'm glad I haven't made any yet There are also some dubious parts, though, such as the tub-cover clamps. The locker lids are also not terribly useful if you want vertical ones. The hinges of the armoured covers for the Kalotte are still not correct. Pity they added so few useful bits for the bow tub. What is also lacking is feet for the smokedischargers (I had hoped they would provide them) and the holders for the smoke-buoys. By the way here's the link:
http://www.eduard.cz/

Cheers,

Arjan
Robert75013
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Paris, France
Joined: March 08, 2009
KitMaker: 242 posts
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Posted: Monday, June 01, 2009 - 04:16 PM UTC
By Pete's sake, you are absolutely right, Michael!
See, it pays to be stubborn and asking. I gave Lang another look, adding contrast here, brightness there and the inner handhold shyly made its appearance. Hooray!

This meaning the ventilator is located to the left of handhold 39E and not in between as the perspective could suggest it (beside, there's no room, anyway).
Good, I can save my last three hair... until the next problem pops up.

If I only could figure out why John Murphy removed all the raised detail in his second article, including the inner bases. A mistake? Let's hope so. His third article did not feature this section of the wheelhouse. As for the fourth article, we're still waiting for it to be published...

Thank you Michael and Arjan for your support. It's always a pleasure sharing points of view with you, gents!
Now, let's see what Eduard has concocted for us. Thanks Thomas.

Robert
MATLOW
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: April 06, 2009
KitMaker: 5 posts
Armorama: 2 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 01:36 AM UTC
Hi,
I just have a consideration of a previous post on what the strange item was that was on the 37mm gun mount of HaJu.
Has anyone considered that it may be a form of acoustic listening device to pick up engine sounds from a great distance so that the gun could be layed more accurately at night .
The Germans used such devices in the early years to train their searchlights on incomming aircraft engine noise.
Considering most engagements were at night it would be an advantage for the crew to lay the gun on target sooner rather than wait for the opositions tracer rounds to give them away.
Regards,
MATLOW
awiskerke
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Netherlands
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KitMaker: 285 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 03:13 AM UTC
Hi Don,
This is an interesting observation. I agree that the shape of the object doesn't look like a launcher . I will try to find some pics of acoustic devices used by the Germans.

Cheers,

Arjan

Postscript: I haven't been able to find a pic of a German acoustic plane detector but the following illustration does show a remarkable resemblance:

Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 624 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 06:22 AM UTC
Hello,
here's an interesting link for the development of "acoustic radar":
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/COMMS/ear/ear.htm
The normal equipment for Luftwaffe-Flak-units was the "Ringtrichter-Richtungshörer-RRH" or "ring-horn acoustic direction detector"

...but there's no likeness to the device on S-205 3,7cm gun shield.
I believe - considering the technical development during WW2 - the s-boats device is too small, especially the single cone.
And there's moore but one cone necessary to direct a weapon to a sound - nearly all sound detectors used 4 (for left, right, high and low adjustment), only the german RRH disposed a ring ,but composing several cones inside.
Therefore I believe the "thing" on HaJü wasn't for acousting detection - however that lightweight-launcher mentioned some days ago?

Michael
awiskerke
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Netherlands
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KitMaker: 285 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 06:39 AM UTC
Hi Michael,
Nice site you found (lovely pics). I agree that in all pics of primitive acoustic devices there was not just a single receptor but several. It's for a similar reason probably that most animals( humans) have two ears instead of just one
Still a nice thought Don.

Arjan
MATLOW
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: April 06, 2009
KitMaker: 5 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 06:22 PM UTC
Hi again,
Yes I did look at what the Luftwaffe used. My understanding is that the setup gave range and elevation hence the 4 horns.
If you look at parabolic reflectors used in current listening devices they use one dish which amplifies the sound in the direction on which it is pointed.
Assuming when they were creeping up for an attack at low speed, gun crews woud have been sweeping their arcs of fire ready to engage. An early detection of another enemy MTB would enable them to get rounds down range quicker and achieve supprise.
An amplification circuit even using valve technology was within the realms of avalable science at that time considering that they were working on passive infa red night vision devices.
Please understand that I am not dead certain about this and in all possibility it is probably an anti aircraft weapon but if you look at the types of weapons used on S Boote as apposed to the capital ships which had radar range finding and some form of gyroscopic stabilisation, the use of such a device would have great benefit. I know from experience when firing 12.5mm weapons at sea you have to contend with the role of the ship and the reliance of your tracer rounds to put you on the mark. The gun crews in those days would have had to contend with that as well.
Regards,
MATLOW
mcdurd
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Virginia, United States
Joined: March 17, 2005
KitMaker: 121 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 09:20 PM UTC
Hello all:

Since I now have time on my hands, here are my suggestions for what is on the gunshield on Ha-Ju:

Funnelator:


Collar for the ships mascot:


device for communicating with other ships:


traffic cone to reserve their spot in the pen:




Chris
Robert75013
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Paris, France
Joined: March 08, 2009
KitMaker: 242 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 10:08 AM UTC
So. It is true then... THERE ARE side effects once one gets over with THIS boat!!!

Robert
awiskerke
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Netherlands
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KitMaker: 285 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 10:28 AM UTC
Either a funnelator or a deceptor I think

Arjan