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Ships by Class/Type: Military Small Craft
For topics on PT boats, landing craft, Vietnam riverine, etc.
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Italeri 1/35 scale S-100 Schnellboot
awiskerke
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Netherlands
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Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 06:48 AM GMT+7
One more mine-question as I'm getting confused by all the different types mentioned. Michael could you tell me which mines these are and what the difference is?


I have the feeling that the latter has a narrower wheelbase ?

Arjan

Edit: I'm sure there were short rails with two different gauges as well (page 44 of the Frenchman's book). The narrower ones are for the second mine shown in the above. I think these mines would fit on the long curved rails as well. See pic:

In fact if you study both sets of rails they have a completely different appearance (e.g. the height of them is also different).

Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
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Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 09:42 AM GMT+7
Hi Arjan,
the first pic is showing a german EMC Einheitsmine Typ C (general issue type C) anchor and cable weight 1,135 kg, the same as modelled by Cammett.
The second mine has a very interesting history:
It's a russian M 08 mine introduced in 1908 with a warhead of 110 kg Trotyl and a total weight of 592 kg. In 1939 the mine was modernized with a new anchor system and a water pressure switch to arm; the mine got the designation M 08/39. After Polands occupation in 1939 the Kriegsmarine captured a lot of them in polish depots on Hela peninsula and in Gdingen. The 2nd s-boat flotilla, stationed at Ostende 1940, used M 08/39 between 10. july and 7. august 1940. During which they layed out 130 mines in 11 sorties. Half of which were type M 08/39. The last sortie of 2.S-Fl. was the night of 11./12. october 1940 with
S-30, S-34, S-36, S-55 and S-56 went to contamine the sea east of Orfordness; they used 10 M 08(r)*, 4 EMD, 12 SprB Sprengboje (minefield protection expl. buoy) and 4 RB Reißboje (minefield protection drag-buoy).



* M08(r) was the new german designation for the M08/39; "r" means "russian", a common method to mark captured weapons. (e) english and (fr) french origin.

Your 3rd pic's showing a boat of 2.S-Fl. in Ostende harbour being loaded with a mix of M08(r) and SprB/RBs.
Hope, I could help a little.
+ =
Cheers,
Michael

edit: armed mines (e.g. M08(r)) were painted black, while mines for drill exercises were coloured red/white.

The rails for the M08(r) seem to be narrower in width compared to the rails used for german ones.
awiskerke
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Netherlands
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Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 11:42 AM GMT+7
Thanks Michael,
JPDL , our French friend, isn't very helpful in this respect in that he refers to the Russian mines as EMC (Einheitsmine C: Ankermine mit Berührungszündung, 300 kg TNT).....
I wonder if there would still have been a stock of these Russian mines by 1944. The captured S-Boote in Den Helder (Squadron page 56) also had the long mine-rails so judging from the available pics, these rails were frequently used in the last months of the war.

Arjan
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
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Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 05:16 PM GMT+7
... and here comes the dhingy - Cammett was busy:



Price: £11.50 (inc VAT)


Michael
Fordboy
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Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 05:36 PM GMT+7
Yip Michael the oval dinghy has indeed arrived.

Check out this news story:

http://www.modelshipwrights.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=140727&page=1#1176583

Cheers

Sean
Robert75013
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Paris, France
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Posted: Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 03:01 PM GMT+7
This could be the solution, that way we'd be able fitting on the starboard partition the ammo rack by slipping it into the gap and have then enough room for the hinges supporting the seat.
What do you think Arjan and Michael?



Good weekend to you, Robert
awiskerke
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Netherlands
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Posted: Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 04:43 PM GMT+7
Hi Robert,
If I had to do it all over again I would move the whole radio bulge to the left and I would replace the sides of the pilothouse by thinner plastic. I would also scratch thinner top panels for the Kalotte and position them in a different angle. For me this is too late now and the same goes for cutting off a section of the bulge which is a rather drastic measure anyway . It's a bit like robbing Peter to pay Paul

Arjan
Robert75013
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Posted: Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 05:26 PM GMT+7
Yes, I agree with you Arjan.
I thought too of moving the whole radio bulge to the left by 1mm but as you say, it's too late for me too. So, rather than taking off all the teeth, I prefer to lose a couple of them. But in both cases... that hurts!
First my hair, now the teeth... groan. I'll sleep on it and see what comes up in the morning...

Robert
mcdurd
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 10:43 AM GMT+7
Hello Robert -

I think your solution is the best of a bad lot - that is a tight corner that is not highly visible so I would say go with your solution. My build was filled with "if only I had" or "if I was to do it again", but I am happy to say I still have my teeth!

Chris
Robert75013
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Posted: Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 12:04 PM GMT+7
Hi Chris,

I'll "smile" to that with my left 30 teeth and baldhead!
See if I can fix the problem with the gangplank and I'll get back to the ammo racks next.

Cheers,
Robert
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
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Posted: Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 04:38 PM GMT+7
Hi Robert,
I think the way you are going is a little bit complicated (the replacement of the bulge) and/or will do too much damage to part 17F and the radio bulge (cutting off a part of the bulge).
... and, it’s an open bridge – the aftermath of such a drastic cutting will be visible from above!
One of the best ways to get the required space for the ammo racks on both sides, is to cut edges of part 17F to bring this part forward (posted friday, june 05, 2009).
The gaps between the floor part (11F) and 17F/32F are not really visible because of the targeting computers pedestal.
Tomorrow I will bring some pics of my bridge (in the moment „glued“ with tape) to show what I mean – this evening it’s to late to convert them from raw-format – my alarm clock rings at 4:30 am

Michael

PS.: ...and Robert - secure your teeth from yourself
awiskerke
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Netherlands
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Posted: Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 05:05 PM GMT+7
Hi Michael,
I'm afraid you will have to pay a price for moving forward part 17f . This will inevitably mean that the "dash" disappears too far under the vertical toppanels of the Kalotte . I fear this will be very obvious as the panels are too close to the communication ports, speech tubes etc as it is. It also means there is not enough room for a crew in the wheelhouse, although this is not a problem if you don't add any.

Cheers,

Arjan
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2009 - 01:14 AM GMT+7
Hello Arjan,
the cut-off from the edges of part 17F is less than half of its thickness - not even 1 mm!
But that's enough to install that damned ammo-rack and to leave the room for seat's hinges.
So I hope to solve the problem with the racks and the hinges without the "dashs" disappearance under the toppanels of the Kalotte

Michael
Robert75013
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2009 - 07:20 AM GMT+7
Hi Michael,

I'm very interested by the way you did my friend... to more to one extend!
Unless I am wrong, without touching to the radio bulge, my ruler indicates an available space of 10.5mm in between the bulge and the door. By sanding half a millimeter off the 17F partition, we come to 11mm, is this correct so far?
Ammo rack is 9.5 and hinges 1.3 which make a total of 10.8mm. To my opinion it's much, much too tight. Unless applying an extreme precise gluing, to the micro, the hinges will end up sitting on the door's edge.
Can someone get me a bludgeon, so I get over once for all with this Schnellboot?!!!

Robert
Gotrek58
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2009 - 11:18 AM GMT+7
Hi Robert,
your data are o.k.
My ammo-rack is 9 mm and is in the same position as posted (june 05) and there you can see the space between rack and door edge - enough for the hinge and the rivets.
Maybe the solution is the angel The sidewall and part 17F are not rectangular! Thats an angel of round about 96/97 degees, so the outer edge of the ammo rack is slightly removing from the radio bulge
Wait for the pics - I hope my 1class-photographer-son is finaly doing the converting this evening - it's fairly difficult to get good personal (read the last part of the sentence with a very british pronunciation He's studying anglistics and has the money for a good photo equipment - for me's remaining a little pocket money for the S-Boat )

Michael
Gotrek58
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2009 - 05:02 PM GMT+7
hello gents,
here are the missing pics - the ammo racks are loaded with the Quickboost ammo drums only as a trial:


the little gap between floor and forward bridgepart is partial covered by the targeting computers pedestal

... and with Cammetts Kalotte (not yet with cleaned/sanded upper panels, so there's enough space for the missing parts - I hope )

For me, it's a viable compromise - by "angels" help

Michael
Gotrek58
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2009 - 05:34 PM GMT+7
... and here's my last posting for this evening - today I got the Waffen Revue 44 and my expectations were exceeded: drawings!!!
Here they are:




so it's possible to scratch the needed 8,6cm RaG M42 to complete S-205 HaJü's 3,7 cm gun shield on its right side.
... and its also needed for S-204 Langs gun shield - thank you very much indeed, Robert - but here on the left side:


If required, I will go to translate the RaGs description and instruction manual


Michael
Robert75013
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 05:42 AM GMT+7
Hi Michael,

Fabulous drawings of the RaG M42! The Wizard has shown again the power which is his!
And congrats to your son for having taken the pictures for us. Particularly the bottom one which gives a clear understanding of the available space. I think now to have made up my decision: I will be trimming the radio bulge with some man supplying the ammo rack or the MG15, it should go without being noticed and so the floor will keep joining that way.

As for the paper board made ammo racks, hadn't much confidence for them to last for ever... And yesterday, it just stroke me (must have been my angel).

Getting problems in finding thin metallic plates to create or replace your photoetched parts?
If so, just go to your local printer's shop and ask him if he can give you away one of his old offset plates he used for printing. Normally, they are 0.15mm thick. He should be just a bit intrigued by the demand but delighted in helping, just like mine was!
Well, now that I have a plate, have to redo them.

Robert
mcdurd
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 07:51 AM GMT+7
Nicely done Michael !

The bridge is shaping up well. Nice pictures of the "rope throwing thingie" - it reminds me of the little party favors that shoot out streamers

Chris
awiskerke
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Netherlands
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 02:58 PM GMT+7
Thanks a lot for sharing the drawings Michael. The launcher is more complicated than I had imagined. I will have to study the drawings carefully to fully comprehend the various parts. I take it that one end of the Drahtseil was fixed to the boat (gunshield in this particular case)?

Cheers,

Arjan
mcdurd
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 03:29 PM GMT+7
Arjan -

Looking at the drawing (especially the last one) i wonder if the design is meant to be used on either a pedestal or to a fixed object - the triangular mount to the right may be what mounts to the shield. if you look at the picture the object doesn't seem to be tight up against the shield, which may imply a mount like what is drawn.

Chris
Gotrek58
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 05:37 PM GMT+7
Hi Chris,
the "triangular mount" (parts 10 -14) is the aiming device with grain (14) and notch (12) on their booms!

Michael
mcdurd
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 07:41 AM GMT+7
Thanks Michael -

Then how would it mount? Perhaps a bracket for the base to sit on attached to the shield?

Chris
Gotrek58
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 12:46 PM GMT+7
Hi Chris,
maybe it was a simple attachment for this simple weapon as shown on my very simple drawing



Michael
mcdurd
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 03:40 PM GMT+7
Michael -

My thought as well, a simple field modification would do it. But how did you get a copy of the original engineer's concept drawing ?

Chris