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Ships by Class/Type: Military Small Craft
For topics on PT boats, landing craft, Vietnam riverine, etc.
Hosted by Todd Michalak
Italeri 1/35 scale S-100 Schnellboot
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 624 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 - 09:29 AM UTC
... and again: fortune favors fools
I found two other pics of the RAG in the book "Seekrieg im Ärmelkanal". Very interesting because of the inner construction and the very thin material of the RAGs cone:



Comment about the 2nd pic: Smoking is very unhealthy! and it shows the sense of that cone at the busy end of the RAG:




Michael
awiskerke
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Netherlands
Joined: December 09, 2008
KitMaker: 285 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 - 03:45 PM UTC
Hi Michael,
Thanks for sharing these pics. It does indeed look as if they also provided a useful smokescreen

Arjan
Robert75013
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Paris, France
Joined: March 08, 2009
KitMaker: 242 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 06:25 AM UTC
Hello boys,

Cammett just cast the lights in clear/red/green and has sent me a set to see what we think of it.
He believes, and I agree with him that the red & green are a little too pale.
My retailer only reopens his shop next Tuesday and I confess not being a Tamiya Clear follower myself, but I'll check if they can be improved with some paint.
Until then, any suggestions? Does the shape look ok to you?...

Cheers,
Robert

Thank you for having replied to the survey. Your comments will be forwarded to Cammett's very shortly!.
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 624 posts
Armorama: 259 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 06:55 PM UTC
Hi gents,
...some new crew members on deck - pretty suitable for our boats:









10 figures for 16.70 € - which is just 1.67 € each - a bargain!


Michael
TAFFY3
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New York, United States
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 2,359 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 05:01 PM UTC
Hello Michael, They do look very nice. I think they should work very well. I built the Italeri Elco PT and used some of their crewmen for that. Some of the detail was soft, and I replaced the heads, but the fit was excellent. I did not have to use putty at all, except to build up some of the life-jacket collars. They looked a little flat to me. I hope the two seated gunners are better than the ones for the 40mm on the Elco. I had to do quite a bit of surgery to get the one I used to sit properly in his seat. So far I've resisted my desire to add the S-Boote to my collection, because of size and space considerations. But this thread, and the work being done on it, is making it harder to resist that urge. Al
dsotm
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: August 13, 2005
KitMaker: 356 posts
Armorama: 290 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 04:52 PM UTC
This afternoon I received a new update from Cammetts - the rear gun shield in resin. I will take pics tomorrow and send them to Gunny

Regards
Brian
#027
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Louisiana, United States
Joined: April 13, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 07:18 PM UTC
Nice crew set.

Kenny
Robert75013
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Paris, France
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KitMaker: 242 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 06:38 AM UTC
The M42 Shield Puzzle. Never 2 without 3!

Hi boys!

The Eduard PE shield being unfortunately wrong on several points, I rather preferred to adapt what Italeri gave us.
My first step was to round the two openings for the aiming devices as shown on the photos.
Then, I've increased the width of the original shield and finally, added the lateral wings, giving them a 15 degree angle.
And last, I removed Italeri's raised hinges to replace them for Eduard's ones on the front.





Robert

ps: I'm sure we all are looking forward to seeing Robin's shield, Brian.
I only hope not to turn green of envy!!!
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 624 posts
Armorama: 259 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 08:14 AM UTC
Hi Robert,
good craftsmanship, but who we say in Germany: where there is light, there is also shadow!
The upper part of your gun shield-extension - beginning at the bend - has a certain width getting more and more narrow till reaching a width of zero - and I think that's wrong! Unfortunately the same with the upper edge of the side armor - too long.
The following pic-clipping are not so good, but it's visible, the upper edge isn't as long as yours:


Maybe it's better to see on my shield pics. I have only to cut a little away from the top edge to get the upper and lower edges parallel;

there's also a cut needed to bring the side edges to the same level:


But Robert, my friend, take care of your hair and teeth and what else.... ; perhaps it's better to wait for Robin's shield - even for me!

Michael
Robert75013
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Paris, France
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Posted: Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 11:45 AM UTC
Hi Michael,

I believed the picture showing the front shield posted on page 25 gave the answer, Michael.
For the upper part of the front extension, giving it a 20 degree angle at the base where it folds, it does indeed come to zero. And to what concerns the top of the lateral partition, yes it's longer than what you thought.
For the latter, I presume you used Eduard's shield as a pattern and we all know by now for being wrong on several places!



Now, if you compare the Squadron pic to your shield, taking into consideration the perspective, you will notice that "A" is shorter than "B"; which doesn't result in your repro. I'd suggest you to take another picture... using the same angle for comparison?

The technique I used here for making the extensions (which is a photographer's trick, back at the time of the good old Hasseblad cameras), was to redraw the shield, the very same one shown on your pic -- as well as an another one on page 27 of the Squadron book -- on a clear transparent sheet of film that I then fixed on my camera's screen. The next step was to put in front of the lens the shield with its wing and to find back the angle the photographer used to shoot his picture.
And... the result spoke for itself. Or at least, I hope it did! Otherwise, we'll have to wait for Robin's release.

Robert
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 624 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 01:37 PM UTC
Hi Robert,
sorry, but it doesn't come to zero - I can't believe that! Maybe I'm foolish

On this pic the angle of bend is visible and the upper edge of the shield is wider than the part of the original shield (without extension and right of the cutouts for the optics) .
OMG - this beast is really bugging me

Michael
Robert75013
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Paris, France
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Posted: Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 02:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

OMG - this beast is really bugging me




And you're not the only one to have that kind of feeling, my friend!
Jesus, it might be a 10- and not 20 degree angle I confess! We both have to return to the drawing board I guess! Ahahaha!

But not before the next three weeks. We are heading for the tropics in a few days, far, far, away from this Italeri cluedo game!

Thanks. I always say it's better sharing ideas. No question is too dumb. (The only dummy is the person who didn't ask the question. )

Take care and see you back... soon!
Robert
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 624 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 04:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text


But not before the next three weeks. We are heading for the tropics in a few days, far, far, away from this Italeri cluedo game!



Nice vacations in the Far East - wasn't it Singapore?
So long

Michael
dsotm
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: August 13, 2005
KitMaker: 356 posts
Armorama: 290 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 05:04 AM UTC
New test shots from Cammetts

Hi Guys

Here are some quick test shots of the new gun shield from Cammetts. It was made up before some of the newer corrections were posted. Robin has taken note of the new shape of the top side panel and also the cut back on the bottom of the sides. If there is anything else you see could you mention it here? Use the images and draw on them as you wish. Don't worry about the apparent warping - that was my fault for using too hot water to correct it







Brian
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 624 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 02:00 PM UTC
Hi gents,
here's my quick drawing concerning that dam... gunshield:

In the upper drawing I used Roberts dimensions (10 / 13mm), but I think in comparison to the pic, posted August 30, 2009 - 05:37 AM BST the 2nd drawing (sorry my mistake: 12! / 13mm) shows the better way...

Michael
Robert75013
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Paris, France
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Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 06:19 PM UTC
We're almost there, Michael!

Reworked your picture. The measures got for the extension are for the top: 9 and bottom: 11.5mm.
But again, don't forget a major point here: the picture wasn't taken straight in front of the shield, having a vanishing angle running away towards the right which makes it look wider than it is actually, more pronounced than the picture posted on page 25.

Therefore, I would reduce the extension width to correct it. About 8 for the top and 10mm for the bottom.
BTW, a 20% slope for the edge IS accurate, ta!



Robert
Robert75013
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Paris, France
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Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 06:04 AM UTC
Hello Brian,

Just a few remarks: what angle gave Cammet to the shield wing, do you know? It seems to me a bit too much emphasized.
Also, I think it would be nice to give more detail to the three section hinges, have bolts identical to the ones located along the opening for the gun barrel and get the four lifting rings thicker.

What do you think, Michael? Arjan, are you there?



Robert
AlanL
Staff MemberContributing Writer
KITMAKER NETWORK
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,471 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 06:21 AM UTC
Hi folks,

Truely amazing and beautiful work guys, brillient stuff.

Al
awiskerke
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Netherlands
Joined: December 09, 2008
KitMaker: 285 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 08:06 AM UTC
Hi gents,
In my opinion the Eduard shield has two major flaws (both are immediately obvious when you compare it to the available pics). There may be other smaller mistakes but these don't annoy me. The worst mistake is the square shape of the slots for the sighting devices. I honestly don't understand how anyone can make such a stupid mistake when using the same reference pics we are working with (pardon my French). The second issue concerns the size/shape of the side panels. I hope my primitive drawing shows what I mean. I copied the shape of the Eduard side panels and the dotted line indicates what I think the shape should be.

Have a nice holiday Robert!

Cheers,

Arjan
Robert75013
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Paris, France
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Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 11:00 AM UTC
Nice to hear from you, Arjan. I can only but agree with you on the shape!
Eduard gave its shield a 5-degree slope while I could only figure out as little as 2...

On the other hand, Squadron tell us on page 28, I quote: "Side armor was field-fitted to the 3.7 cm gun."
Which was confirmed to me by Jürgen Eichardt when asked if the shield extension for our Flak M42 could have ever been mass producted, he replied with a clear: "NIEMALS!!!"

(Sigh) Tough, tough... If these were "home-made," I can't imagine why Germans would have bothered giving them a slope of any kind. I've no answer there...

And thanks for your greetings -- and you too, Michael! Two more days before the great kick off!

Robert
awiskerke
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Netherlands
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Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 11:36 AM UTC
Hi Robert,
I don't know about degrees, I haven't got the advanced technology you use , I simply stick to the old adage if it looks right it is right . By the way, could it be that Mr Eduard managed to lay his hands on a different set of original shield pics, if that is the case I retract everything I said.

Arjan
Robert75013
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Paris, France
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Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 11:49 AM UTC
Wouldn't surpise me! It's no the first and last time suppliers release wrong material without studying it first.

Look at Italeri with their Schnellboot!!!!
Robert75013
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Paris, France
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Posted: Friday, September 04, 2009 - 11:20 AM UTC
Hi my friends and worshipers of the holy bloody shield!

Ok, I was granted permission by my missus to correct the mistake you kindly pointed out Michael, before we leave for hotter and exotic places.
So... (coming in stealthily...) here it is.
I must say you were quite right Michael. The 20- degree slope is much, much more appropriated indeed.



I guess this is my last post for the next two weeks to come. Have lots of fun while we're gone (then I recommend not to work on the Schnellboot!) and take good care of yourselves.

With best regards,
Robert
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 624 posts
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Posted: Friday, September 04, 2009 - 01:15 PM UTC
Hello Robert,
much better now!
...only a little to increase the angle front/side armor from your 80° to something between 60° and 70°. We will wait 2 weeks and some more daiquiri - give my regards to your missus and have a nice trip!

Michael
Robert75013
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Paris, France
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Posted: Friday, September 04, 2009 - 02:22 PM UTC
You really want me to have a problem with my missus, do you?!
She's about to switch off the damn computer, once for all!!!

Ok, here it is. You know the picture. Even tho it's not an M42 but a Bofors shown there, quite similar to our gun, would you really increase by 10 or even 20 degrees its angle?
No, I wouldn't think so!



Will pass on your regards to her. Hope it'll calm her down!
Take care, back to packing.
Robert