This is the start of an old Tamiya M113. It might not be a good model by today's standards but it is a trip down modeling memory lane for me. This was the first armor kit I ever built. I'm glad I was able to get a hold of another one!! I wish I kept the first one to be able to compare... then again maybe not.

I was wanting to add some simple wiring and haven't been able to find out where the distributor is placed. Likewise the placement of the spark plugs. I think I am modeling an early model with the petrol engine.

Brian-- that is the original M 113 engine. A pure gas burner. I will have to look and see if I have anything from that era. The M113A1 wasa MOGAS burner with a completely different arrangement.
Merry Christmas!
DJ

Hi Brian
Maybe these pics can help you...The show a Chrysler 75M gas/petrol engine very similar (if not exactly the same as this one was/is used with generator sets) to the one of the M113 :








HTH
Frenchy

Thanks all for the replies!

Frenchy: Those pics seem to be very similar to not be it. From the timelines I've looked at it wasn't until 1974 that M113 was fitted with the Detroit Diesel, and I don't think they would have "tinkered" with different engine configs between initial use and then. Thanks for sharing!

Edit: Was just comparing photos and it seems like the air-filter is grossly undersized on the model... Frenchy do you have any measurements on the engine in your pics??? The distance between valve covers would be excellent...

Sorry I don't have any dimensions for this engine...Here's another picture that may help you as well. It shows the Chrysler 75M in the M113 engine bay :

The Diesel-powered M113A1 was put into production in 1964, not 1974

HTH
Frenchy

Thanks again! The pic conveys very much, I at least have gotten a feel for how it really looks!! Do you have a M113 in the backyard or something?? Or are you like a few of our fellow Armoramians that have these things as "toys"...

I stand corrected on the timeline... don't know what I was thinking. I had formed the opinion from my reading that the M113 first saw action in 1964... Well I guess if I don't keep on trying to expand my horizons, I won't uh... expand my horizons...

Merry Christmas

"No" to both questions, the M113 is just one of my favourite AFVs, so I've gathered some reference stuff

Merry Christmas

Frenchy

The Tamiya model is from 1974. I was wracking my brain to see if I could understand where I got that date from. Well as it goes armor isn't my forte - obviously.

But did the conversion start in the field or at home? Or did the A1s ship out and those in the fields ask for conversion parts because of the improvements they saw...?

At any rate I think I'll model a M113 that has seen action, but before the conversion.

Thanks again for all the help!

Here's a extract from Simon Dunstan's "Vietnam Tracks" book that may interest you :
"As a further measure to protect against mine damage and RPG penetration it was decided in August 1967 to convert the M113 fleet from gasoline to diesel power in order to reduce the danger of fire. At that time 73 % of M113s in US Army units in Vietnam were gasoline-powered. By 1st July 1968 the entire APC fleet in US Army Vietnam was equipped with diesel engines."
So now you have a time period for your project

HTH
Frenchy

Thanks again Frenchy! That sounds like a perfect excerpt for me!! I'm going to have to start to get some books on these things... I wish Tankograd had a M113 6000 series manual....

You're welcome Brian
Just in case you need some Vietnam pics, you can take a look at Jerzy's Picasa photo albums :
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/zippo132

Good luck !

Frenchy

I can't say with certainty how it was done back in the mid 1960's, but I can tell you how the fielding process works today. Once the requirements for a new vehicle (or in this case a new model) have been accepted (change from gas to diesel), and the new model has been ordered, tested and procured in quantity, sets of new vehicles are delivered to the unit according to a schedule which considers several factors to include which unit has the most need of the new configuration.

Today, this normally occurs as units rotate back from the theater of operations, and takes place in the Continental US (CONUS), and allows time for training on the new equipment. But having been in a unit in Germany when the M-109 short tube 155mm was replaced by the M-109A1 long tube, I know that vehicle sets can also be delivered to units not in CONUS.

I can't say for certain, but given that one of the drivers for going from gas to diesel was to decrease combat losses of both personnel and vehicles, it would not surprise me if the fielding of the diesel versions took place in country.

One of the big differences in how things are done today vs. Vietnam (a big improvement in my opinion) is that today, entire units train in CONUS, deploy to the war zone for a fixed time and then return home. This allows for a much more "predictable" cycle for refits or modernization. In Vietnam, "units" for the most part may have been in country for a number of years, with individual soldier tours lasting one year. So while you'd likely see a 100% turnover in people in just over a year, the actual "unit" wouldn't come back. I suspect that would have forced the fielding to take place in country.

One thing I'm almost certain of. The replacement of the gas engine/fuel system with a diesel version would not have taken place at the unit level. There is too much that would have to be changed to convert the vehicle, and unit (company) and organizational (battalion) maintenance wouldn't have the capability or equipment to do the conversion. I also suspect that Direct Support and General Support wouldn't have done this either. This level of change probably would either have been done at depot level or by changing the production line and building/changing the systems at the factory.

Thanks Tom for that insight!! Things like you have told are somewhat of a hurdle in modeling, I think. Having never been on duty, nor really been around the equipment, all I have to go by is the model in the box, the internet, and maybe even the occasional book....

As it turns out the Swedish Armor Museum at Axvall has a M113 with the 75M engine. I'm headed there just as soon as it opens... in May... I've gotten hooked on the M113 and its Swedish successor the Pbv 302.

That is an AWESOME site Frenchy!!!! An extreme wealth of information - in picture form!!!! What a legacy those that have taking the pics have left for us all!!! Wow is all I can say!!!