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what is the direct vision sherman
youpey
Joined: March 11, 2008
KitMaker: 528 posts
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Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 12:22 PM UTC
what is the difference with the direct vision sherman and a regular sherman
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
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Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 12:34 PM UTC
Quoted Text
what is the difference with the direct vision sherman and a regular sherman
What do you mean by a regular Sherman?
The Direct Vision Shermans had direct vision slot in the driver and co driver's hoods. These had armored covers which could be raised or lowered. In later versions the direct vision slots were done away with and the driver and co driver viewed the world through periscopes
jjumbo
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 2,012 posts
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Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 12:52 PM UTC
Quoted Text
what is the difference with the direct vision sherman and a regular sherman
Hey Mike,
Here's some photos of early production Shermans from Wikipedia:
A diesel powered M4A2 Sherman III at CFB Borden with the direct vision ports on the driver's and co-drivers hoods:
I'm not sure of the exact type but these are Sherman tanks of British 30th Corps passing through Bayeaux:
M4 or M4A2 or M4A4 without direct vision ports:
Cheers
jjumbo
BigfootV
Joined: December 24, 2005
KitMaker: 1,624 posts
Armorama: 994 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 12:56 PM UTC
Direct vision Sherman the hatches are smaller.
The regular Shermans had the direct vision slots to start with. The Sherman though out to war went under many changes and many models were build.
The M4 was the first, it had direct vision slots, the hull changed as the war progessed.
The last model was the M4A3E8 76mm along with the 105mm has you ask about in earlier post.
So to answer the question, there's really no such monster has a "regular" Sherman. Now, someone here knows more then I do. But that should start the wheels rolling.
The regular Shermans had the direct vision slots to start with. The Sherman though out to war went under many changes and many models were build.
The M4 was the first, it had direct vision slots, the hull changed as the war progessed.
The last model was the M4A3E8 76mm along with the 105mm has you ask about in earlier post.
So to answer the question, there's really no such monster has a "regular" Sherman. Now, someone here knows more then I do. But that should start the wheels rolling.
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
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Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 01:33 PM UTC
This reference article may be useful to you.
http://www.usarmymodels.com/ARTICLES/Sherman%20Corner/shermanvariants.html
John: the bottom picture is an M4A4 (Sherman V) -- the telltale signs on the bulges in front of the drivers' hoods which cast that shadow on the bottom front, the 3-piece nose, the "squashed" glacis antenna pot and the spacing on the roadwheels.
http://www.usarmymodels.com/ARTICLES/Sherman%20Corner/shermanvariants.html
John: the bottom picture is an M4A4 (Sherman V) -- the telltale signs on the bulges in front of the drivers' hoods which cast that shadow on the bottom front, the 3-piece nose, the "squashed" glacis antenna pot and the spacing on the roadwheels.
jjumbo
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 2,012 posts
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Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 02:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
This reference article may be useful to you.
http://www.usarmymodels.com/ARTICLES/Sherman%20Corner/shermanvariants.html
John: the bottom picture is an M4A4 (Sherman V) -- the telltale signs on the bulges in front of the drivers' hoods which cast that shadow on the bottom front, the 3-piece nose, the "squashed" glacis antenna pot and the spacing on the roadwheels.
Thanks Roy,
I thought the Sherman V was a good bet but the quality and angle of the photo wasn't definitive.
Cheers
jjumbo
youpey
Joined: March 11, 2008
KitMaker: 528 posts
Armorama: 468 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 03:44 PM UTC
thanks for the info. i just placed an order for the tasca sherman with direct vision. i appreciate the help, and sorry for the stupid questions
BigfootV
Joined: December 24, 2005
KitMaker: 1,624 posts
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Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 03:48 PM UTC
The only stupid questions are the ones that aren't asked. 
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 02:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
thanks for the info. i just placed an order for the tasca sherman with direct vision. i appreciate the help, and sorry for the stupid questions
The Tasca DV is an M4A1 and an early one at that. It is not like the one (M4A2) pictured above. You are limited to North Africa and Sicily for a Brit one but I believe a few US ones found there way till wars end. I just wanted to point this out to you so you don't end up with something you weren't after.
DV hulls were found on the M4A1, M4A2 and M4A4 family in service. The M4A1 DV's all had the M3 Bogies whilst only the earliest M4A2 DV's had the M3 Bogie (Identifiable by three piece nose) . The M4A4 DV all had M4 Suspension and some even made the jump to Fireflies.
Cheers & welcome to the wonderful wolrd of Shermans
Al
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
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Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 02:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Direct vision Sherman the hatches are smaller.
Nope, the hatches in DV Shermans were the same as in all later Shermans with 56 degree (glacis plate angle) hulls. Hatches were changed to larger ones later, when the glacis angle was changed to 47 degrees.
Quoted Text
The M4 was the first
Actually the M4A1 was the first version that entered production, as there were some problems with welding of armor plates what delayed the production of M4 variant.
Pawel
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 03:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextDirect vision Sherman the hatches are smaller.
Nope, the hatches in DV Shermans were the same as in all later Shermans with 56 degree (glacis plate angle) hulls. Hatches were changed to larger ones later, when the glacis angle was changed to 47 degrees.Quoted TextThe M4 was the first
Actually the M4A1 was the first version that entered production, as there were some problems with welding of armor plates what delayed the production of M4 variant.
Pawel
By smaller hatches I think Brian meant hoods.
My understanding is that all Shermans were originally meant to have the cast hull, however wartime expediency meant that welded hulls could be produced faster. The other variants M4A2, A3, A4 came about for the same wartime expedient reasons because of the availibility of suitable powerplants.
BigfootV
Joined: December 24, 2005
KitMaker: 1,624 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 03:54 AM UTC
Pat,
Thx, I did mean the hoods, Brain was faster then the fingers were typing. Lag in the system.
Pawel,
Thx also, I was trying not to go into too much detail with the post and have go off in some other direction. After all, with all the hull types, versions, and variants it could have gone that way.
Thx, I did mean the hoods, Brain was faster then the fingers were typing. Lag in the system.
Pawel,
Thx also, I was trying not to go into too much detail with the post and have go off in some other direction. After all, with all the hull types, versions, and variants it could have gone that way.
youpey
Joined: March 11, 2008
KitMaker: 528 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 08:12 AM UTC
thank you for the information. i cant wait for the sherman to come in
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 08:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Direct vision Sherman the hatches are smaller.
The hatch size did not change when direct vision slots were deleted--the size of the driver's hood casting was altered to accommodate a periscope which replaced the vision slot. The hatch size changed over a year later when the hull front angle was altered from 56 degrees to 47 degrees.
jowady
Joined: June 12, 2006
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
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KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 683 posts
Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 02:23 PM UTC
[quote]
Early M4 Hulls also had DV ports.
John
Quoted Text
DV hulls were found on the M4A1, M4A2 and M4A4 family in service. The M4A1 DV's all had the M3 Bogies whilst only the earliest M4A2 DV's had the M3 Bogie (Identifiable by three piece nose) . The M4A4 DV all had M4 Suspension and some even made the jump to Fireflies.
Cheers & welcome to the wonderful wolrd of Shermans
Al
Early M4 Hulls also had DV ports.
John
Damraska
Joined: October 06, 2006
KitMaker: 580 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 03:54 PM UTC
My apologies for this on all levels. The meme just wanted out.
Direct Vision and You: A Brief Explanation
-Doug
Direct Vision and You: A Brief Explanation
-Doug
youpey
Joined: March 11, 2008
KitMaker: 528 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 04:05 PM UTC
Quoted Text
My apologies for this on all levels. The meme just wanted out.
Direct Vision and You: A Brief Explanation
-Doug
no need to apologize, this was perfect.
jowady
Joined: June 12, 2006
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 683 posts
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 683 posts
Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 05:44 PM UTC
Hey Doug,
Best explanation I've seen!!!
John
Best explanation I've seen!!!
John
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts
Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 06:42 PM UTC
[quote][quote]
Thanks John, I don't know why I left that one out. The earliest M4's to see action with the US in Tunisia were of that configuration alongside m4A1.
Cheers
Al
Quoted Text
Early M4 Hulls also had DV ports.
John
Thanks John, I don't know why I left that one out. The earliest M4's to see action with the US in Tunisia were of that configuration alongside m4A1.
Cheers
Al
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 - 08:49 PM UTC
Hi Guys,
Don't for get the British had M4 DVs is Normandy.
If in doubt look here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1224274945/M4+Sherman+Mk+I+DV+Hull+Question-
Al
Don't for get the British had M4 DVs is Normandy.
If in doubt look here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1224274945/M4+Sherman+Mk+I+DV+Hull+Question-
Al
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 - 10:45 PM UTC
So why exactly were the US so quick to eliminate direct vision from their tanks, whilst other nations [i.e Britain, Germany etc] continued to use said feature in the designs untils the wars end?
tnker101
Joined: November 30, 2007
KitMaker: 117 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 - 11:02 PM UTC
Too funny
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 - 11:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
So why exactly were the US so quick to eliminate direct vision from their tanks, whilst other nations [i.e Britain, Germany etc] continued to use said feature in the designs untils the wars end?
Panther G's and Tiger II's didn't have direct vision. Older vehicles still in service remained unchanged. And it would have been costly and time consuming to redesign Pz IV's and Hetzers, etc.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 12:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So why exactly were the US so quick to eliminate direct vision from their tanks, whilst other nations [i.e Britain, Germany etc] continued to use said feature in the designs untils the wars end?
A port was also a weak point in the armor, more easily breached by a projectile, even when closed. The British favored mass production over modernization, so their designs lagged behind in issues like sloped armor, firepower and optics. The older German designs were also not updated to avoid disrupting production (Panzer IV, Sturmgeschutz III). Newer designs (i.e. Panther G, King Tiger) used periscopes.
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 01, 2016 - 12:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Direct Vision and You: A Brief Explanation
Doug, you forgot the last panel!
"Don't be a Dick".
:)
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