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M59 Long Tom tires/wheels?

HeavyArty

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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 10:28 AM UTC

I have been told the tires / wheels in the AFV Club M59 Long Tom 155mm kit are incorrect for a WWII piece. They are post-war, unidirectional tires. Does anyone know of an AM set of the correct WWII tires and wheels?

bulivyf

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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 10:48 AM UTC

Gino, here is Long Tom from Omaha Beach for comparison.

HeavyArty

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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 11:33 AM UTC

OK, those are the same wheels as in the kit. Are they correct or not for WWII? Just because they are on a museum piece at Omaha Beach doesn't mean they are correct for WWII.

Below are the style of WWII tires/wheels I have seen.

ericadeane

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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 12:35 PM UTC

I've only seen one pic of a single, obvious replacement multi-directional tire on a Long Tom in the WW2 era. A pic of a museum piece isn't helpful.

Supposedly, the wartime hubs had 6 holes as opposed to the kit's 5 (or other way around -- i forget which).

Therefore, your correct replacement set is from Masters Productions (France) available from Blast Models. The tires are the so-called "civilian" style (not like your pic unfortunately). Another set includes the M1 dolly which allowed it to be towed more easily behind a HST. PSP make a set of tires but it doesn't correct the hub-hole issue -- so it's basically worthless IMHO

http://www.phpshopxml.com/blamod.shop/CID/eedc019a81977ef1cd9626dbfd96ab50/function/itemPageDisplay/shopItemCode/MAS35019

http://www.phpshopxml.com/blamod.shop/CID/eedc019a81977ef1cd9626dbfd96ab50/function/itemPageDisplay/shopItemCode/MAS35042

Grumpyoldman

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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 12:48 PM UTC

Scale Link has the Master Productions dolly and wheels set in stock.

Hint-- when using Scale Links' site, if it does NOT have the "add to cart" button, it is out of stock.

HeavyArty

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Posted: Friday, May 08, 2009 - 02:50 AM UTC

Thanks guys. Thats the info I was looking for.

sbrookes

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Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 01:53 PM UTC

From what I've found online it looks like the Masters Productions aftermarket sets are the way to go.

What I'm wondering is if the same tires from the Masters Production set can be used on the old Italeri M1 155 mm Howitzer kit to make it WWII vintage?

If anyone knows if the Long Tom tires were the same size as the M1 155 Howitzer tires please let me know. I've found it difficult to discern from old photos online and in books. Tim Streeter on usarmymodels.com pointed out in an article that the Dragon Wagon tires could be substituted for the Italeri kit tires but these would not reflect the most common tire seen on the howitzer in WWII. Does anyone know if the Dragon Wagon tires are the same size as the Long Tom tires? Again, it's difficult to discern the size difference from the photos I've seen.

Thanks,

Steve

casper

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Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 05:51 PM UTC

Gino,
I assume you are thinking of these tyres (tires):

if my failng memory serves me correctly I believe Hussar Productions released a set with a similar tread pattern (sorry not too sure of the sizing), unfortunately the set I have are of no use to you as mine are 1/25th scale.
Steve - in short the answer is NO, you cannot use the M26 "Dragon Wagon" rims and tyres as they are 14.00x24 and the M1 Carriage and M5 Limber use 11.00x20. Here's a comparison (the Mack NO uses 12.00x24 tyres):

HTH

Roger.

HeavyArty

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Posted: Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 01:18 AM UTC

Yes, those are the tires. The Masters Productions ones are like them and look great. I already have them.

KurtLaughlin

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Posted: Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 09:41 AM UTC

I've yet to see anything specifying the number of holes in the wheel disks.

(In fact, these look to have eight holes: http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=155+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3D155%2Bsource:life%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20&imgurl=62b809bb0e079c04)

The only relevance would be that on duals the inner tire's valve stem should poke through the holes in the outer tire's wheel. As far as I know there is nothing out there that say five, six - or eight - is correct.

Also, to the person who asked, M26 tires will not fit on an M1 155 howitzer carriage. The M1 uses 14.00-20 while the M26 uses 14.00-24.

See: http://www.usarmymodels.com/ARTICLES/Tires/tires.html

KL

sbrookes

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Posted: Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 02:02 PM UTC

Thanks Kurt for the clarification. Great article on USarmymodels.com. This is exactly the information I've been looking for. Don't know how I missed it all this time!

Do you know of an aftermarket company that makes civilian HW 14.00-20 or 14.00-24 tires in 1/35 scale?

Also, just to confirm, the did the M2 Long Tom use 14.00-24 tires with the heavy limber using 11.00-20 tires?

Thanks.

Steve

KurtLaughlin

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Posted: Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 02:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Kurt for the clarification. Great article on USarmymodels.com. This is exactly the information I've been looking for. Don't know how I missed it all this time!

I know how - It's only only been up for about a week!

Quoted Text

Do you know of an aftermarket company that makes civilian HW 14.00-20 or 14.00-24 tires in 1/35 scale?

Nope.

Quoted Text

Also, just to confirm, the did the M2 Long Tom use 14.00-24 tires with the heavy limber using 11.00-20 tires?

No - you are reading the table wrong. It lists the carriages, not the weapons, because it was the carriages and mounts that had wheels and the same weapon may have been on more than one carriage or mount.

The M2 and M3 155mm gun carriages were for the GPF. The M1 series carriages were for the M2 guns and used 11.00-20 tires as did the associated heavy carriage limbers.

KL

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Posted: Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 03:35 PM UTC

While we are on the subject of the M59 Long Tom, I have an off topic question. When was the very last time the U.S. use this weapon. I heard it was used in Vietnam but I cannot find any info to back that up.

Thanks,
Joe

redleg12

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Posted: Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 11:52 PM UTC

Joe - this has been a debate on here before. The M59 Long Tom was out of the US inventory (maybe some still with reserves) by time the US entered the war. It was replaced by the M107 175mm SP Gun.

It is possible the the M59 saw action in VN but with French troops during their stay in the 1950s

Rounds Complete!!

TacFireGuru

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Posted: Friday, July 31, 2009 - 01:33 AM UTC

Roy and/or Gino,

Do I have this correct: The first link (MAS35019-set with the dolly) is not worth the effort/costs and the second link (MAS35042-just the wheel sets) would be the correct tires/rims for a WWII Long Tom? Or did I misread and it's the PSP set that is incorrect/not worth it and both Masters Productions are correct?

If correct, then I assume they would be proper for AFV Club's 8" (203mm) for the same time frame?

Thanks guys.

Mike

sbrookes

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Posted: Friday, July 31, 2009 - 03:12 PM UTC

Thanks Kurt.

So basically I'm out of luck if I want to find aftermarket tires for Italeri's old M1-A2 155 mm kit? Looks to me like the 155 mm howitzer on an M1-A1 or M1-A2 carriage, as depicted in the Italeri kit, would have used civilian HW 14.00-20 tires and therefore the Masters Production set for the AFV Club Long Tom, which are presumably 11.00-20 civilian HW WWII era tires suitable for replacing that kit's post-WWII tires, but not suitable for the Italeri howitzer to replace its post-WWII tires?

Steve

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Posted: Friday, July 31, 2009 - 04:28 PM UTC

still on this topic, i have seen long toms with heavy tread amost off road tires being pulled by turretless lee tanks are these availabe in 1/35?

HeavyArty

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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 01:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Roy and/or Gino,

Do I have this correct: The first link (MAS35019-set with the dolly) is not worth the effort/costs and the second link (MAS35042-just the wheel sets) would be the correct tires/rims for a WWII Long Tom? Or did I misread and it's the PSP set that is incorrect/not worth it and both Masters Productions are correct?

If correct, then I assume they would be proper for AFV Club's 8" (203mm) for the same time frame?

Thanks guys.

Mike

You are correct Mike. I just got the wheel set and will use them on the dolly and frame of the Long Tom.

HeavyArty

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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 02:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

still on this topic, i have seen long toms with heavy tread amost off road tires being pulled by turretless lee tanks are these availabe in 1/35?

Yes, but not for the M59.....From PMMS -

"With the planned invasion of Europe beginning on D-Day, the need for adequate transport for the heavy artillery pieces became apparent. Initially, M31s and M32s were converted to prime movers by removing their turrets and installing winches, these being renamed M33 and M34 respectively. Between January and June 1944, 209 M10A1s, which were being used for training, were also converted by removing the turret and internal ammo storage and other fittings to become the M35 Prime Mover.

While AFV Club show their kits of the M59 155mm Canon and M115 8" Howitzer as being towed by the M35 in the instructions, this is not entirely correct. The M35 was used primarily to tow the 8" GUN M1 or the 240mm Howitzer M1, these being different weapons altogether from the kits mentioned."

AFV Club made a model of the M35 Prime Mover, but as noted, it didn't pull the M59 Long Tom nor the M115 8" Howitzer.