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1:32 Bf 109 E bomb set
TedMamere
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Posted: Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 07:58 PM UTC


Eduard have released a Bf 109 E bomb set for to their new 1/32 scale Bf 109 E kit. A nice addition if you want to model the Jabo version of this famous fighter.

Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
bill_c
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Posted: Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 08:12 AM UTC
How different is this from the BF-110 bomb rack?
TedMamere
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Posted: Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 07:14 PM UTC
Hi Bill,

That's the question I've asked myself as well but I couldn't find the answer in my limited references about the 110. But I believe the 110 was mostly fitted with an ETC 250 (pair of 250 kg bomb) bomb rack. Below is a picture of the ETC 250 provided by Eduard in their 1/48 scale Bf 110 kit...



And the 1/32 scale ETC 50 from the Bf 109 E bomb set...



Was the ETC 50 and 500 identical for the Bf 109 and 110? I don't know...

Jean-Luc
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Posted: Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 07:42 PM UTC
Hi Jean-Luc and Bill

just a small remark: ETC means Einzelträger für Cylindrische Abwurfmunition i.e. (roughly) single mount for cylindrical bombs. the thing under the 110 is a dual mount and the one J-L shows in the 2nd pic is for 4 50kg bombs. These two are definitely not the same. Sorry I cannot provide names and details of the latter mounts as I lack proper documentation for these.

all the best

Steffen
bill_c
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 04:01 AM UTC
Thanks, guys, I'm trying to save the old Revell of Germany 1/32nd BF110, and am always looking for ways to save scratch-building. Looks like this isn't a viable way.
alpha_tango
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 04:18 AM UTC
Hi Bill

Well, doesn't have the Dragon kit such stuff included? .. if you could build the Dragon kit as an ealy Bf110C fighter and use "dual" bomb rack on the Revell kit .. also you could build the Revell kit as a fighter .. though you would probably need a MG151 gun pack then. Alternatively you could cast a copy from that dragon part ... just some thoughs ..1/32 is much too large for me and thus I do not know those kits very well ....

I guess you have already checked J Rutmans site if there is something from him ....

all the best

Steffen
bill_c
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 04:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well, doesn't have the Dragon kit such stuff included?


Yes, I am almost finished the "wasp" version of that kit. The decals are a bit of a challenge getting the wasp faces aligned properly.

Quoted Text

If you could build the Dragon kit as an ealy Bf110C fighter and use "dual" bomb rack on the Revell kit.


I'm doing the Zerstoerer fighter-bomber version from Russia, so I need the bomb rack. I guess I could troll for parts if there's anyone who didn't use his?

Quoted Text

I guess you have already checked J Rutmans site if there is something from him ....


Jerry isn't working on the 110 any longer. His upgrade kit handles everything else except the bomb rack and the nacelles.

Does anyone know if any of the G variants were flown without the rack? That would be the easiest solution!
alpha_tango
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 04:45 AM UTC
Hi Bill

Have you tried to contact Dragon Models USA for a "replacement part"? .. just a thought. Else you could maybe try the usual forums and ask, if someone did not use this part ...

all the best

Steffen
bill_c
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 04:54 AM UTC
I purchased some replacements from Dragon for the schraege Musik arrays for the plane, but they are very expensive and hard to get. I may see if someone has an extra bomb rack.
alpha_tango
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 05:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I purchased some replacements from Dragon for the schraege Musik arrays for the plane, but they are very expensive and hard to get. I may see if someone has an extra bomb rack.



Hi again Bill

so when you build a nightfighter for what purpose do you need a bomb rack????

all the best

Steffen
bill_c
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 05:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So when you build a nightfighter for what purpose do you need a bomb rack????


Hi, Steffan,

I suspect the bomb racks were left on planes converted to nightfighter use. The only surviving G variant in the RAF Museum has one. Was this a post-war restoration? I don't know. Photos show a variety of arrays underneath the plane, including rocket tubes and gun pods. I don't know the Luftwaffe issued specs saying "bomb rack/no bomb rack." After all, the Defense of the Reich was a work in progress as the Germans struggled to deal with the ever-increasing onslaught of bombers day and night.

I have built two RoG kits (one is only partial at this point), and I may just leave the bomb rack off. If you have definitive photos of the Gs without racks, please share them!
alpha_tango
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 05:25 AM UTC
Hi Bill

Well, IMO conversions were rather rare .. there was the F/G-2 Zerstörer and F/G-4 Nightfighter. Surly the bomb rack could be fitted, but why would I do so on a fighter .. of course there were occasions like Operation Gisela. But If I would put something with drag under my fighter it would be the 2 MG151/20 gunpack ... as I wrote, my opinion.

here is a pic ..it is from the first book I picked from the stash (Schnaufer; ace of diamonds) there are some more but it is quite difficult to decide if it is the engine nacelle, gun pack or bomb rack on the in flight shots .. and this one is clear (for disc. purpose only and I will delete it soon)



all the best

Steffen
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 05:30 AM UTC
Hi Bill

If I remember rightly, the reason for the bomb rack on Hendon's exhibit is explained in Squadron's Bf 110G Walkaround. Unfortunately, I've already packed all my books up ready to move, so I can't check.

All the best

Rowan
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 05:32 AM UTC
Steffan, I couldn't be happier if there's some way to ditch the bomb rack!

Thanks for sharing that. Anyone have any information on those nasty guns in the nose?

Do you know which marking this plane had (number and letters)?

Rowan, I did not see mention of that, but I will check my copy. I am going to leave the rack off both planes if I can remove it from the one that's more or less built.
alpha_tango
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 05:51 AM UTC
Bill

the guns are MG 151/20 with muzzle flash suppressors. The a/c letter is "G" as you see under the nose.

IMO just build your favorite markings and armament ... all the belly equipment were sets that could be installed or not .. just claim they were not installed on that special day. (Famous is e.g. Wim Johnens plane that he landed in Switzerland ... found a pic of that without any belly stuff )

all the best

Steffen
bill_c
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 06:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

the guns are MG 151/20 with muzzle flash suppressors.


Thanks, I will look into that. Could be an interesting addition. Does anyone make that in 1/32nd scale? Aires has the guns without the flash supressors.

Quoted Text

The a/c letter is "G" as you see under the nose.


Sorry, I was not clear. Schauffer had three aircraft, the last being G9+BA (which did not shoot down any planes). The other two were G9+EZ (with the earliest radar array, the tiny 202), and G9+EF (with the array shown in the photo you posted). I would assume that this plane is the EF.

I guess I answered my own question!

Quoted Text

IMO just build your favorite markings and armament ... all the belly equipment were sets that could be installed or not .. just claim they were not installed on that special day.


I love it! But I'm too much of a "rivet counter" to make things up. I think, though, you have solved my dilemma, and I will build the middle Schauffer plane!
alpha_tango
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 06:20 AM UTC
Hello Bill

Well, I should let you go with your idea .. sometimes it is nice to not know the full story

When I write "the a/c letter is G" that means the full Kennung is like xx + Gx

The first two xx stand for the Geschwadercode (see Barry Rosch's great work for all the codes), the 3rd letter is in most cases the aircraft designator and the last letter is the Staffelbuchstabe (sqn letter) .. this is most probably not one of Schnauffer's aircraft. The pic is from the Schnauffer book though.)

Sorry, but as I wote just do Schnauffer's markings on the aircraft. More important are the correct flame dampers for the engines, C&M and such things .. as I wrote Rüstsätze and Umbausätze coud be mounted and also removed.

not much of a help I guess

all the best

Steffen
bill_c
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 06:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well, I should let you go with your idea .. sometimes it is nice to not know the full story


Not at all, mein Freund! You have been very helpful. Sometimes one can get too close to a subject. The bomb racks always bothered me, but the photos I've seen are too ambiguous. I did not want to take them off and have someone here say "what the hell were you thinking!!

Thanks for the explanation of the letters and numbers. I had a hazy understanding of it, but now I feel more comfortable.

Quoted Text

Just do Schnauffer's markings on the aircraft. More important are the correct flame dampers for the engines, C&M and such things .. as I wrote Rüstsätze and Umbausätze coud be mounted and also removed.


Fortunately between Jerry Rutman's resin conversions and the Eduard outer PE set, the plane can be 90% fixed (as I said, the engine nacelles need work, but that's more than my skills will allow). The flame dampers on the kit are pretty good once the PE grills are added. Rutman's cockpit is quite good, and I'm 50% finished with a sM array. Schattonmodelbau is sending me the late radar array for one kit, and I'll use the kit radar for the second, earlier plane.

Quoted Text

not much of a help I guess


Im Gegenteil.
alpha_tango
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 06:47 AM UTC
Well, again one small remark.

The flame dampers: on one of Schnauffer's machines were different types installed. These are not of the late (curved end) style, but are straight ...

we should probably move this whole thing to your thread .. I just noticed that we are clogging up Jean-Lucs kit report on the Eduard aramament set for the 109 ... sorry ...
bill_c
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 07:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The flame dampers: on one of Schnauffer's machines were different types installed. These are not of the late (curved end) style, but are straight ...


Do you have a photo?

Quoted Text

we should probably move this whole thing to your thread .. I just noticed that we are clogging up Jean-Lucs kit report on the Eduard aramament set for the 109 ... sorry ...


Moi, aussi, Jean-Luc. Je suis desole.
TedMamere
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Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 - 07:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Moi, aussi, Jean-Luc. Je suis desole.



No problem on my side... very interesting read!

Jean-Luc