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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Tiger Evolution
barkmann424
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Posted: Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 06:25 PM GMT+7
Hi Bill!
Wowee! The Tigerfest goes transatlantic! And with all that volcanic ash, what a trooper!
Always good to see another slice of Tiger 'manna' on the table!

The MasterClub tracks are an excellent addition to any Tiger... And you get closer to the link count than their 'Heavy metal' rivals! I usually go for 96 on the 700mm idler Bill, and 94 on the 600mm.

I was just having a squint at 323 of the s.Pz.Abt 503, I may be a little fatigued, (lack of sleep... long story!) but does it have a rain cover over the binocular gunsight?



You probably already have one of these, but here is the pic anyway!


Hopefully I should be near to my 'Shire' sometime tomorrow. Good on you Bill, looking foward to the rest of the Tiger tree!

Great stuff... Cheers Phil.

Major-Hazard
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Posted: Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 06:03 PM GMT+7
Hi Beavie; thanks buddy. I love your hat!

Hi David; I will use the Voyager Model resin 503-style turret bin for build number 3. It comes with the '5th Anniversary Edition' Tiger 1 after-market set.

I suspect the 323 mantlet was one with an atypical frontage - with the slight curvature medial to the left lateral vertical reinforcing stays and above/below the armoured/ribbed monocular sight type thing. One of its sister Tigers also had a sun visor, so I might add that as well. I have a spare out of one the the Fehrmann kits, so it should work well (as well as scratching a visor from aluminium sheet).

How many tracks per run - is it meant to be 90?


Bill
Byrden
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Posted: Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 05:15 PM GMT+7
I can't find any larger copies of those photos of 323, alas.

But I have a question about it.

Where will you get the turret stowage bin?

David
Beaver2206
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Posted: Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 03:45 PM GMT+7
I'd be wise sticking around here, it's overflowing with information.

Nice work mate.

Stuart
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 08:52 AM GMT+7
Hi guys!

Thanks for the feedback David. By that premise one assumes that Tiger 250008 would have has mirror-tracks at some point during the summer/autumn of 1942 and on those grounds I will use the mirrored tracks on this build, especially as I am creating a model which is a representation of 111, not a facsimile of the said AFV.





I have 110 or each left and right to my disposal. I sourced these Masterclub tracks from Hobby Easy - when they arrived I had 17 broken tracks in the tightly packed plastic bags, which took me close to the wire. I emailed Daniel Chui from Hobby Easy and within a week I had the exact number of replacement tracks. Excellent service, I say.

Each track has four track-pin holes that need drilling out with a 0.5mm (I used 0.6mm) pin vice bit, then any excess film needs removing from the lightening holes & then removal of subtle a seam from the track shoe itself. No small feat, but once done these tracks will look splendid, I am sure.

In the pack are two sorts of tiny bolted track-pins - one for inner & one for outer aspects of each track. I hope I have enough!

Finally, (to David); any more ideas on that mantlet for Tiger 323 of sPzAbt 503 during the summer of 1943? I think I can see some features on some of the reference photos, but am not quite sure as all the pictures I have seen have a chap stood infront of the binocular sighting mechanism! Many thanks.


Bill

http://panzersinscale.blogspot.com/
Byrden
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Posted: Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 03:34 PM GMT+7
As far as I know, the mirrored tracks never reached Africa. They were recognised as a mistake very early on, with each tank needing to carry two kinds of spares. Even within the 502, tracks were swapped around so that some Tigers would need only one kind. Tiger 111 must have been built with mirrored tracks, but it had two 'left' tracks by the time it was camouflaged in Winter 1942. I can't see the tracks it had when it was serving in grey paint, despite having several photos.

David
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 10:24 AM GMT+7
Hi David; that is very useful, thank you. That image shows to me that the tracks were mounted in a similar way to Panzer IV tracks; the outer slants wider at their lower aspects.

If Tiger 111 of the sPzAbt 502, Fgst 250008 had two left hand tracks - is that the same as all tigers after Fgst 250020? Or was is that after Fgst 250020 they all had right hand tracks? Pat Stansell notes in his book athat once the mirrored tracks were out of production (after Fgst 250020) the tracks were right handed, hence the ones on the left side were mounted backwards?

I speak 'anatomically' - i.e. the tank's left or right, not as you look at it.

Also; if Tiger 111 of sPzAbt 502, Autumn 1942 production was Fgst 250008 why did it not have mirror tracks?

Thanks; either way - I can find a fix as I have tracks in hand.

Finally; can you confirm that the first 20 production models had mirror tracks, including the first 10 sent to sPzAbt 501 in North Africa?

Looking at a standard production early-type Tiger 1 track I can see that is is the one that is mounted on the left hand side of the Tiger in the picture above; i.e. the standard production run became left track and right track mounted backwards after Fgst 250020.


Bill
Byrden
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Posted: Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 02:23 AM GMT+7


Unfortunately, Tiger 111 was different. It had two of the left-side tracks.
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2010 - 06:34 PM GMT+7
Well; I'm exhausted! He he...

Actually, the two-part exhausts were married & filled with the old Tipp-Ex/CT mix & sanderised down today, later roughened up a bit with skunky Mr Surfacer 500/CT mix - well skaggy.

Before;



After;



Tracks next…any advice on which way is which?
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2010 - 03:42 PM GMT+7
Hi David; looks like we're cooking with gas, then!

Excellent.
Byrden
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2010 - 03:18 PM GMT+7
Bill:

The spokes on a Tiger originally aligned with the outer bolts, but after a few machines were built, this changed. Some of the Initial Tigers of the 502 had aligned spokes, but they're not the decal options in Dragon's kits.

As for the central bolts, they sometimes align with the spokes, but I don't know if it's accidental or the original setup.

The ONLY Tiger I know that has the sprocket wheels exactly matching the Academy kit is.... Tiger 111.
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2010 - 02:06 PM GMT+7
Hi David

They are TD's by Mitsuo Terada, but only of the rear plate, no specific photographs.


Bill
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2010 - 01:41 PM GMT+7
Hi guys!

Regarding sprocket wheel the kit part supplied is rather well cast, but for an initial Tiger doesn’t quite hit the mark – Ok for a generic early Tiger 1, but the spokes don’t align with either the sprocket nuts, or the hub nuts, however, (big surprise here) Academy streak home & grab gold with their ‘early’ version, which is an absolute corker! Not only do the Academy sprocket sprocket wheel spokes align with the external bolts, but the spokes also align with the hub nuts.

Dragon part;



Academy part;



Get in!

Now all I have to do is prep approximately 200 resin Tiger 1, mirror tracks.

I could be some time…


Bill
Byrden
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2010 - 10:26 AM GMT+7
Bill;

Are those photos not on the site that I linked to above?

I'll check out the 503 mantlets later...

David
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2010 - 10:14 AM GMT+7
Hi David

In The Modelers Guide to the Tiger Tank there are some nifty pictures, but I am not sure about copywrite laws on scanning & posting them up on this thread - do you know whether that would be an issue?

Whilst I have your ear; do you know what types of mantlet 503's Tigers sported, specifically Tigers 323, 321 and 123? This will be vital in production of the third build in the run; I can't quite make out what mantlet 323 had and think 321 had the ribbed version with a sun visor on - do you know (especially 323)?

Thanks.


Bill
Byrden
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2010 - 09:12 AM GMT+7
Bill, if you can find any photos or diagrams of 111 that I'm not aware of, please do tell me about them!

David
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2010 - 08:05 AM GMT+7
Hi guys and WELCOME to all, especially Kirk for taking the time to post up for the first time to this Tigerfest!

As you can see the casting numbers are on over the snorkel apparatus cover, mantlet and armoured exhaust covers. The Archer transfers really are quite spectacular in this instance and will look pretty snazzy when painted up. One has to be careful to trim the excess carrier film off the edge of the decals prior to soaking in warm water (which is a doddle – the decals slip off in no time). I used four applications of Micro Sol after the decals had bedded down, then three light applications of Klear to make sure they would affix permanently.





Please also see the MIG resin mantlet that I might resurrect later in this series, along with the bow plate, once I can figure out a fix on the shrinkage issue.



NB; If the sprockets of 111 had those unusual aspects (the spokes were lined up with the outer bolts and with the inner 5 bolts) the Academy Tiger 1, early sprocket wheels will be just the ticket as they fulfil both of those criteria! I will show a picture of this later.

David; I note that 111’s rear plate had the sledge hammer, track-pin tool, jack block, part of the crank handle and spade. I am not sure whether 111 deployed a jack in its OVM tool configuration, but have seen some initial Tiger 1’s with the jack hanging to the lateral aspect of the right exhaust, but in this instance it would be impossible due to the presence of the sledge hammer and spade. I might have to do further research into the OVM layout on the hull top (if there was any).

Stuart; thanks for that Top Tip ; are you sure you never wrote for Viz Comic? He he...

Thanks to all for advice, assistance & interest; catch y’all, like, latier, man!


Bill

http://panzersinscale.blogspot.com/
hedorah59
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Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 06:08 PM GMT+7
I will be following this build all the way, and am looking forward to the journey!
Beaver2206
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Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 05:37 PM GMT+7
Cast numbers look stunning mate, I am soooo getting myself a set. Don't know why I'm still trimming the sprew-frame numbers off and using them. Doh!

Stuart
Beaver2206
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Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 05:35 PM GMT+7
I have so much trouble opening the Mr Surfacer bottle too!

Stu's top tip of the evening, detach the plastic insert from the cap and press back onto the bottle before the metal screw cap. You should not have any further issues as when you take the top off next, the screw cap will come off easily, leaving the plastic cap to prize off with whatever impliment you feel fitting.

I wouldn't give out those sort of jems to anybody you Bill, just for you bud.

Stuart
Byrden
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Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 05:26 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Hi David! How about Tiger 111; any ideas on configuration of OVM tools and tow-lines (and requisite tie/hold-downs) and any idea on how those sprocket wheels would have been - lined-up or not?


The sprockets of 111 had two unusual aspects; the spokes were lined up with the outer bolts and with the inner 5 bolts.

The rear plate had the axe, wire cutter, jack and spade. I don't know the full layout of tools on the hull top.

David
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 03:49 PM GMT+7
Hi guys!

Today’s update shows some WIP on the armoured exhast covers. Dragon offer some pretty nifty covers here, but they need a little jiggery-pokery (as do Tamiya, but I have a surprise up my sleeve for the upcoming DAK build there..nod-nod, wink-wink);

• Filling the gap-lines where the lifting lugs are positioned
• Addition of casting numbers
• Texturising of the cast metal surface

Here you can see preparation of the covers – so far I have filled the filling defect around the lifting lugs (parts B4) on the exhaust coverts (parts B1) with 50/50 mix of Tipp-Ex and Cellulose Thinners (hereby referred to as ‘CT’). I keep this handy mixture in an old bottle of Tamiya Extra Thin Cement (hereby referred to at ‘TETC’), which is useful on several grounds;

1. the square bottle is less likely to spill
2. the cap has a fine brush which does not denature in the CT
3. it is always ready to use
4. this mixture fills tiny gaps & sands down really well with a fine nail file
5. because the bottle is square & does not sit on its side I find there is no residue build up in the cap thread, which can be a right pain (problem solved with a TETC bottle)

I have also prepped the areas that will take the casting numbers with four thin coats of Johnson’s Klear for better adherence when I apply the casting numbers using Archer’s decals.



I will apply the casting number using Archer Surface Details ‘Casting Symbols 7’, ref AR88007. I will use Micro Sol & Klear for this process and will also apply casting numbers on the gun mantlet and the snorkel pipe cover thingumy at the back of the engine deck. I have decided to side-step the MIG mantlet as it is smaller than the kit part (as is the bow plate – I note that this was mentioned in Gary Edmunson’s Tiger build in Osprey’s Modelling the Tiger 1, ISBN 978-1-84603-170-0). My theory is that MIG resin shrinks after casting as do most things when they cool. Food for thought; the mantlet is 1.5mm too narrow and the bow plate is 2mm too narrow. Further; the mantlet is warped & has two huge air bubbles in. Shame.

After that I will apply a ‘cast’ surface texture using a skaggy old bottle of Mr Surfacer 500 (also cut 50/50 with CT and kept in an old TETC bottle for the same reasons). I find this bottle is horrendous to open as the Mr Surfacer really glues up the bottle top thread.

NB; I notice a relatively high ‘view count’. I would be delighted to field any questions – please feel free to post up, fellas.

Further; I will update Panzers In Scale regularly, so please have a look in from time to time.

Adios!


Bill

http://panzersinscale.blogspot.com/
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 02:56 PM GMT+7
Man, Stuie; I never knew you wuz so impatient. Stop it! Now! D'ya hear? Now! He he...

Hi David! How about Tiger 111; any ideas on configuration of OVM tools and tow-lines (and requisite tie/hold-downs) and any idea on how those sprocket wheels would have been - lined-up or not?

I reckon this Tiger lark is a minefield!!!
Byrden
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Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 01:47 PM GMT+7
Well, if you have a particular Tiger in mind, I may be able to tell you more.
The known photos are thumbnailed here.
Beaver2206
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Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 01:31 PM GMT+7
Sure can bud, PM me with a rough idea of what you want it to say and we'll go from there.

Now where's this update, I've been standing around for, like, minutes...

Stuart