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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Tiger Evolution
Abydos
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Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 07:34 PM UTC
Looking good Bill, looks kinda odd with the extra plate on the front, but i realize you doing the one from the factory the was presented to Hitler. hey did you know that the snorkle, goes on the the other side, instead of the drivers side, i just found that out by looking at some photos from 131 at the bovington museum. oh well hey just about finished and ready to start painting it. i tryed to post some photos the other day, but it said that i didnt have enough space, so i have to delete some of the older ones before i upload them.
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 01:38 PM UTC
Hi Eddy; I will have had a good look at the hubcap style you mention - I see what you mean; do have a DML 6600 in the stash & might be able to use those, yes.

Progress so far;









Just waiting for the hubcaps - what a coincidence!

Whilst I am waiting I think I will have a tinker with Fgst 250014, October 1942's version. Funnily enough they have the 'fatter' Academy-style hubcaps & I was going to use them for 250014, so I will do a straight swop.

Cool - thanks again for the heads-up Eddy!

Bill
Braille
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Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 09:47 AM UTC
Bill,

Looks good. I had noticed that you cast a hubcap for these drive sprockets and had also posted a pic of the original drive sprockets. The drive sprocket hubcaps that you cast are a newer casting found on Tigers sent to Africa. Although both are used on the initial Tiger production vehicles the newer ones are seen in photos on the later production patches. You have a separate set of hubcaps for the drive sprockets in the new 6600 Initial Production Tiger I kit that you could cast and use on this build?

Phil, thanks for the headups on the title by Feist and Culver's "Tiger 50th Anniversary" I ordered a new copy.

Keep it coming!
-Eddy
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 03:46 PM UTC
Vorpanzer on;



Now awaiting tracks & hubcaps. This has been a nice fast build.


Bill
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 09:08 AM UTC
Hiya Phil!

I might have changed my mind about an interior...he he.

Assembling the fantastic resin MasterClub tracks & preparing the MR Models Vorpanzer;



Catch you later!
barkmann424
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Posted: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 06:12 PM UTC
Evening Bill!
Well it had to start somewhere... The casting marks that is! Looks like this is going to be a very in depth build, I was pondering over the interior you have in mind... And was thinking about the level of interior that would have been included in such an early derivation prior to combat. Possibly very little, or maybe the whole kit and caboodle? It would have had a mechanism for the deployment of the 'Vor' bit... David?
Have you got Feist and Culver's "Tiger 50th Anniversary" Tome published by Ryton? This has a nice crisp image of this particular beast, with less of the grainy tones of other copies of the above image. The book also contains a lot of clear interior shots of the two captured Tunisian Tigers.

Keep the faith, fellow Tiger tamer!

Cheers Phil.
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 07:08 AM UTC
Casting numbers on. I have made these up, but enjoyed applying them.



Catch you later!


Bill
Abydos
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Posted: Monday, February 07, 2011 - 05:32 PM UTC
Hey Bill, i have a silly question , what is the point of high lighting the serial numbers, when they just get painted over and weathered anyway? i am just curious, thats all. still waiting here for those detailing brass parts from china, its taking them alomost a month so far, i recieved my mac in a quicker time frame and that came from there also "laughing" hey your doing a awesome job on this blog, i will post some pics when i get a chance for you ok. i never knew they had a horn before? i learned something, hey that snorkel wont fit inside, for it enters on an angle from the upper back deck, but i did try to make it functiional "laughing" you know it would be cool to make a boneyard with a bunch of tigers, all at different stages of repair like the one shown for the 503 on that website.i beleive it had some panthers "d" there too as well
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Monday, February 07, 2011 - 10:46 AM UTC
Hi David! I will do - thanks for the tip.

So - here is WIP VK 45.01 (H)







I have straightened the horn.

Any support or comments would be more than appreciated!

Cheers.


Bill
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Posted: Monday, February 07, 2011 - 09:21 AM UTC
The cupola didn't have the supports for the umbrella, so you should remove the molded-on tabs.

David
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Posted: Monday, February 07, 2011 - 07:38 AM UTC
Hi Eddy!

Than you for your technical inpout - your help is truly appreciated. I would really like it if you stuck around on the next few builds - it looks like you are a fountain of knowledge!


Bill
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Posted: Monday, February 07, 2011 - 07:36 AM UTC
The glacis plate with the two MR Model front mudguards, awaiting the Vorpanzer once affixed;



The parts fitted well with a little sanding.

The parts awaiting resin casting numbers - here I have applied one coat of Klear;



Thanks for looking!
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Monday, February 07, 2011 - 07:33 AM UTC
VK 45.01 (H) turret WIP;





A smattering of PE to go onto this model; so the build should be relatively CA-free.

Note the arrangement of the turret lid; no spring mechanism & no latch to hold the turret open on the absent angulated support. The hatch support is added in PE.


Braille
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 08:27 PM UTC
Bill,

Here goes, round two! Ding,ding . . .


Quoted Text

So – regards the mantlet; was it a Porsche-style one, or was it one of the first Henschel ones without cut-out on the left lower corner of the mantle?



The Krupp turret delivered to Henschel for the VK45.01(H) was made specifically for this vehicle and would not have had the Porsche mantlet. Although the Krupp turret body was the same for use on both the Porsche and Henschel chassis there were a number of requirement and design differences between the two turrets both internally and externally. After cancellation of the Porsche VK45.01(P) project it was not until November 1942 that a decision was made to modify the turrets for use on the Henschel VK45.01(H) chassis. The 90 turrets surplused from the Porsche VK45.01(P) program were then converted over for use on the Henschel VK45.01(H) vehicles. These turrets underwent many modifications during the course to process them for use on the Henschel chassis. One good example is the emergency escape hatch found on the turret of the captured Tiger (Fgst.Nr.250122) at the Tank Museum in Bovington, England. And of course that vehicle is sporting the cast and machined mantle with the cutout on the lower left hand corner to clear the periscopes on the deck of the Porsche VK45.01(P) chassis.


Quoted Text

Right; are you sure that there also wasn’t a pivoted hook or catch for the engine hatch. How can you be sure? Is it obvious in the picture you show?



I just received my copy of Tiger 1942 – 1943 Technical and Operational History by Waldemar. The photograph in this copy of the book is very clear as compared to the photograph that I posted from a Russian publication and yes; the pivoting hook for the engine hatch is there! Thanks for checking that out! I wasn’t sure when I examined the photograph that I posted as this looked like a shadow from something in the background.


Quoted Text

Look closely at Jentz & Doyle’s two photos of 250001; it also has non-mirror tracks. Interesting, huh?



The two photographs of Fgst.Nr.250001 were taken on May 17, 1942, on the proving ground at Kummersdorf by Henschel. Henschel drove the chassis around some 25 kilometers and experienced brakeage to the steering mechanism and while attempting to drive the vehicle back onto the dirt road became stuck. Parts were still being ordered for this vehicle for testing and on May 23rd Henschel asked Krupp to deliver the second turret for this chassis. When the right and left cross-country tracks became available they were issued to this vehicle for testing. Although it is stated by Jentz & Doyle that 20 of the first series production vehicles received the right and left cross-country tracks there are photographs that indicate otherwise. This may have something to do with the availability and difficulty of managing to obtain two different types of track links? Anybody mention spare parts issues?


Quoted Text

I had clocked the small reflector mounted to the lower left side of the hulls rear plate on the TD’s in Jentz & Doyle, but thanks for mentioning it – I deleted from Tiger 111 (assumed Fgst 250001-250010).



The reflector, distance indicator / stop light and headlights were all designed to work together as part of the lighting and non-active lighting system. Indecently, I noticed on photographs that most initial and early Tigers have a smaller diameter reflector as apposed to the larger diameter reflector on later model Tigers. The DML kits only supply you with the larger diameter reflector. The smaller diameter reflector is easily hidden in some photographs via mud and dirt build up as these smaller reflectors did not hang below the rear armor plate as did the larger ones. The more photographs become available the more we see and the more we demand from the kit manufactures as either being options in the kit or we making the kit more accurate or both.


Quoted Text

So; the tow coupling for the fuel trailer was absent? Thanks for the heads-up. I am really grateful – how do you know?



The tow coupling was originally specified to be a welded on feature but Krupp had not received any drawings form Henschel for this item. It was later decided by Henschel to just bolt this item onto the chassis. The bolt on tow coupling did not appear until later in the year just before series production had begun. The first vehicle with the bolt on tow coupling was Tiger Fgst.Nr.250001 over at Kummersdorf. Another one of the many parts ordered for testing on this 2nd vehicle. Many of the initial production vehicles left the factory without this item but were later fitted in the field. By October 1942 all production vehicles were leaving the factory with this item.


Quoted Text

I love your take on the colour of this Tiger; I shall take that on board & work with it. EXCELLENT!!!



I was thinking after viewing the new photograph . . . As for the painting of this vehicle it may have been that the entire engine access plates, deck grates and engine hatch may not have been on the vehicle at the time of painting due to the crews not finished with this area of the vehicle. And it could be that other items (such as the armored ventilator cover) had not yet been delivered by the vendors when it was painted leaving them in there primer color?

And speaking of Tiger 111, I also found something of interest. The commander’s cupola is correct as you stated for the VK45.01(H). However, there was a support and catch to hold the cupola hatch lid open at 110 degrees available as of June 1942 for the Porsche VK45.01(P) drum-shaped cupolas. This same rest-lock was later adopted over to the Henschel vehicles and appeared on the first series production vehicles. The first series of vehicles left the factory with only the cupola rest-locks for the hatch lids. It wasn’t until November 1942 starting with the 30th turret that a spring counterbalance was installed at the factory for both the commander’s and loaders hatch lids. The spring counterbalance was retrofitted to the earlier production vehicles out in the field. So depending on the time frame of your Tiger 111 build you may want to look at the counterbalance on the commander’s cupola.

I hope this is of more help to you, Bill. Keep up the excellent builds and thanks for the kudos it much appreciated. Remember that I am merely taking my best educated guess as per all reliable reference books and photos. Tonight I’m going to go and sit down and view / read my new Tiger book.

Cheers to you, Bill
-Eddy
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 01:44 PM UTC
Hello Eddy!

What can I say, but a huge thank you – you are clearly an enthusiast!

So – regards the mantlet; was it a Porsche-style one, or was it one of the first Henschel ones without cut-out on the left lower corner of the mantle?

I shall leave the antenna extension mount on the rearplate.

Right; are you sure that there also wasn’t a pivoted hook or catch for the engine hatch. How can you be sure? Is it obvious in the picture you show?

Look closely at Jentz & Doyle’s two photos of 250001; it also has non-mirror tracks. Interesting, huh?

I had clocked the small reflector mounted to the lower left side of the hulls rear plate on the TD’s in Jentz & Doyle, but thanks for mentioning it – I deleted from Tiger 111 (assumed Fgst 250001-250010).

So; the tow coupling for the fuel trailer was absent? Thanks for the heads-up. I am really grateful – how do you know?

Great detective work on the time-frame issue regards the photograph! I am very impressed. Well done & thanks; April 1942, it is!

I love your take on the colour of this Tiger; I shall take that on board & work with it. EXCELLENT!!!


Bill
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 01:31 PM UTC
Hi Erich!

In my opinion if DAK Tigers are your thing - the best idea would be buy the Tamiya Tiger 1, DAK, sure, but build it as the Bovington Tiger, which requires a standard Gepack Kasten, cutting a hole for the escape hatch in the turret and standard configuration of OVM tools & mudguards/side fenders for an early Tiger 1. However, if you do insist on doing the earlier 'initial' DAK-style; I am confused enough with my own refs! But, if you want to use a template - copy my DAK Tiger 1 (September 1942) - see the photo link below. The only error I can find on that build is the convoy light- it should not have been the rectangular box-style one I used. I hope to correct that before I build it - this Tiger 1 will be Tiger 112.

In short; for an initial - YES you need to remove the rectangular flanges from around the engine deck filler caps.

Good luck!


Bill

(PS if I was building DAK Tiger 112 from the Tamiya DAK version I would use the recently released Voyager Model PE35196 and the DAK Tiger Gepack Kasten, Voyager model PEA056, I would also use Voyager Model Feifel set, but use the earlier filters from the kit, but use the trunking from Voyager Model PEA087). Phew! Oh, and also Tiger 112 has a Porsche-style mantlet, I think.

http://www.militarymodelling.com/sites/1/images/member_albums/38591/112p5180004.jpg
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 01:24 PM UTC
Hi Will!

You should show us some WIP pictures - I certainly do like them when they are all shiny! I hope to show you detailed pictures of each one as I progress through the time-line, so with a little patience we'll all get to see where I get it right & drop a few clangers along the way!


Bill
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 01:22 PM UTC
As a prototype, armour was less relevant; in this instance VK 45.01 (H) did not have any armour around the final drives, hence the removal of that thick semi-circumferential rim of styrene on the kit part;



The filler is liquid paper.

Moving on apace, I am prepping everything in order to convert several pieces in a simlar manner; either by deleting, altering or adding features along the way.

I shall be using MasterClub resin tracks for this build, along with an RB Models barrel as the metal one in the tray does not 'fit' the Porsche-style one-piece mantlet, which is a shame. It is, however, nice to use that Porsche Tiger mantelt piece as it will be (for the most part) unused in this series.

Thanks for looking in!


Bill
Braille
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 05:21 AM UTC
Bill,

I’m no expert on the Tiger I, but here’s what I believe I understand about the VK45.01(H). I had planned on building a model of this exact vehicle and had done a bit of research for this build. I have read through your shopping list and found it to be complete with a few exceptions. So I thought it best if I went and shared. My main reference is the Jentz & Doyle D.W. to Tiger I. Incidentally, the Germans generally referred to this menacing vehicle as Tiger as did the Allies who fought against it. When the Tiger II came along a few sources began referring to this vehicle as Tiger I, but this name was never officially given to this vehicle.

• This was the first Henschel Tiger – it had a Porsche-style mantlet with the cut-out at the lower left border, assuming that by early 1942 Henschel had not quite clinched the deal and acquired a Krupp turret from the Porsche project; I hope to be enlightened by anybody who might know better.

Following production cancellation of the Porsche VK45.01(P) Tiger, Krupp delivered the first 4 of the 90 turret armor bodies along with the original drum-shaped commander's cupola and components produced for the VK45.01(P) to Wagman for conversion over to hydraulic traverse for use on the VK45.01(H) in late December 1942, completing all subsequent deliveries by early June 1943. Krupp delivered the 1st completed turret, designed specifically for the VK45.01(H), to Henschel on April 11, 1942 just 9 days prior to the demonstration competition against the Porsche VK45.01(P) held on Hitler’s birthday.


• Talking of radio operators; this being a prototype I assume it did not have any radio gear; consequently I am considering deleting the rubber antenna mount on the upper right rear hull and the metal antenna mount on the upper hull rear plate; comments would be appreciated.

The metal antenna extension mount welded to the upper right rear corner of the hull rear armor plate was a specified design feature that would have been affixed to the 1st Krupp armor hull during assembly before delivery to Henschel on January 3, 1942. The antenna extension mount was also present on the 2nd Krupp armor hull (Fgst.Nr.250001 – 1st production series chassis completed in May 1942). The antenna extension mount was removed from production by October 1942. The rubber antenna mount (without the antenna) on the right rear deck would also have been present per design. This is also present on the 2nd Krupp armor hull.


• One would have thought that this Tiger would have had ‘mirror’ tracks; in the photographs I have seen it did not. I wonder, therefore, whether this Tiger sported the first type of non-mirror tracks, a decision which was ‘modified’, then later re-simplified? Either that or the reference date on the pictures is wrong and the Tiger was photographed later than April 1942 (i.e. post-August 1942).

Only the first 20 series production vehicles (250001 – 250020) were outfitted with the right and left cross-country (‘mirror’) tracks. Although this was a specified design feature the VK45.01(H) did not have them.


• There were no hatch hooks on the rear hull deck grates.

There also wasn’t a pivoted hook or catch for the engine hatch. There is however a pivoted hook and catch for the engine hatch on the 2nd Krupp armor hull but not for the deck grates. These vehicles also did not have any screens installed over the deck grates.

• This Tiger had a rectangular convoy light, as seen later on Tiger 111.

There is also a small reflector mounted to the lower left side of the hulls rear plate. Also the tow coupling for the fuel trailer was not present on this vehicle, although this was a specified design feature.



Photograph of VK45.01(H) taken in April 1942 inside the Henschel assembly hull. This photograph was taken in the same month as the photograph you posted. What clinched the time frame when the photographs were taken is the VK30.01 sitting just to the right rear of the VK45.01(H) in both photographs. You can barely see the rear idler of the VK30.01 behind the VK45.01(H) in the photograph you posted.

Four VK30.01 chassis were in the process of being completed to be sent to a school for Panzer drivers with the first two vehicles having already been sent in March and the remaining two being sent in late April 1942. The first Krupp VK45.01(H) turret complete with main gun, was delivered to Henschel on April 11, 1942. After working around the clock for six days the vehicle was operationally ready and inspected on April 17, 1942 just 40 minutes before being loaded with its cross-country tracks onto a railcar for transport to Hitler’s headquarters in Rastenburg, for the competition with the Porsche VK45.01(P) contender held on April 20, 1942.

I hope that the above photograph will shed some light about why I believe that the assembly crew may have hastily over sprayed the vehicles primer color with a base coat of dark gray? Note the difference in color on the forward deck armored ventilator cover between the two headlights and the rear deck grates. I wonder if the top of the deck and turret were left in the primer color of rotbrun (red/brown oxide) because a lot of sections on the road wheels, idler and lower hull leave the impression that this may have been the case? Well, maybe not the turret top.

Hope this is of some help to you Bill?
-Eddy
trex10
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Posted: Friday, February 04, 2011 - 06:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Tiger 1, Initial (sPzAbt 501/‘DAK’)

My initial plan was to use the Tamiya kit wholly, but on inspection that kit has an incorrect engine deck configuration and will lends itself better to a later Tiger in the production run (I will use this for the David Parker 1943 sPzAbt 502 Doppleganger Tiger). There will be a styrene DAK-style turret bin on this build.




Hi all,

I am following this impressive build blog, and more and more I become hot to do even an DAK Tiger.
My idea was to use the Tamiya "early version" and components of the Italeri Tiger 1 E/H1 "Trop" for this. Now I would like to ask what kind is the "incorrect engine deck" of the Tamiya Tiger, and when was the Tamiya Tiger engine deck produced on.
Analyzing the pic. of Bill most impressive work, I suppose the dfference will be the rectangular area around the water filler screw and overpressure valve of the Tamiya version, while Dragon has a round depression, Right ?
My idea is to modell either 141 or 142 of 1/501, because in the ITALERI kit are the correct coloured numbers.
For the turret bin, I suppose the difference of the DAK versions to the "standard one" is the size (width/height) and even the size of the covers, RIght ?

Thanks in advance for any infos,
Erich
Abydos
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Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 03:24 PM UTC
hi Bill, i have started to place the anti personal mine dischargers on it for a "maybe thought" they are from griffon model, lets just say lots of tiny parts of brass, i also started a master box kit too, they are also tricky, very thin plastic, as far as the cat, i am not sure what company i am going to model it from, i know it wiil be from the eastern front, i was planing on the 502, "4" or the "123" , "I,II" from the 503, i am still waitiing for parts to come in from voyager, china.
Did you ever notice how nice they look before painting, with all the brass on them?Oh well back to work, cheers everyone
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 02:57 PM UTC
Hiya Kirk! I am so pleased that you are enjoying the blog.

I have had a long, hard think about this VK45.01(H). Looking at reference pictures of April 1942 VK45.01(P) did have rubber antenna mount for an aerial; I am sure that VK45.01(H) would have the same, albeit without an actual antenna. I need to decide whether the rear-mounted antenna shelf would have been present, or whether this was for a second antenna (for example if it was a Befehlswagen). I will need to have a look at my references. Further; this Tiger was prepared for a head-to-head with the Porsche prototype on Hitler's birthday, 1942. I read that VK45.01(P) was Panzergrau at that trial. There is no way the Henschel team would have let this important project out in primer, even though it was allegedly completed only minutes before the rail shipment left for the proving ground trials. I think this prototype would have been Panzergrau; one concession will be that I will paint the barrel a darker grey colour.

Any helpful comments regarding antenna mounts and tank colour would be appreciated.


Bill
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Posted: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 - 02:01 PM UTC
I enjoy reading all the posts and advice on getting every little detail correct, its all very informative. Keep it up, I'm still following along and loving every minute of it!
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 - 12:04 PM UTC
Hi Will; it sounds very complex. Maybe almost as complex than the brachial plexus, or possibly Krebs Cycle? He he. Good luck with your studies! What did you major in pre-med? How far through are you? What do you hope to specialise in?

Let me see some pictures, mate. BTW: I like your nekkid Tiger 1 in the gallery. Nicely done.


Bill
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Posted: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 - 10:19 AM UTC
Hi Bill, the snorkel thing in the rear is tricky, to make it functionali would think it does, but the storage room is really tight, with the engine in there and the hoses and wiring. for the gas lines i am using brass and styrelin and making some scratch hoses from photos of the engine in the tiger at bovington. even the dipstick for the oil pan on the side is tricky. i was thinking of even trying to wire the inside with a light of some sort, tiny led possibly, depends.....so far the inside is in(floor boards seats,tranny,etc, the turret is 80% complete, i have afeeling once completed, the painting/detailing is going to be nuts!