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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Tiger Evolution
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 - 04:41 AM UTC
I think it will help to consider VK 45.01 (H) as the blueprint for following Tigers. I will describe its features here in a retrospective, assuming we all appreciate the attributes of an Initial or Early Tiger. VK 45.01 (H) is similar to the upcoming production Initial Tigers, but certain ‘items’ are missing/different.

The points are;

• The prototype Tiger had no OVM tools.
• It had no wing-nuts for fording gear on the MG ball.
• There was no MG fitted in the Kugelbende on the three photographs I have, I will assume the coaxial MG is similarly missing.
• This was the first Henschel Tiger – it had a Porsche-style mantlet with the cut-out at the lower left border, assuming that by early 1942 Henschel had not quite clinched the deal and acquired a Krupp turret from the Porsche project; I hope to be enlightened by anybody who might know better.
• The prototype had a horn on the upper hull.
• VK 45.01 (H) had no periscopes in the driver’s or radio operator’s hatches.
• Talking of radio operators; this being a prototype I assume it did not have any radio gear; consequently I am considering deleting the rubber antenna mount on the upper right rear hull and the metal antenna mount on the upper hull rear plate; comments would be appreciated.
• The prototype had a flat-hatch style opening stopper for the cupola lid, which opened fully-flat, this means that there was no swing-arm for the hatch opener, or spring gear; the hatch would have been opened manually & dropped (no doubt creating all sorts of damage when it fell on the opener, hence later development of the spring mechanism?)
• The MP Klappen were asymmetrical.
• There were no S-mine launchers or smoke-launchers on this Tiger 1.
• There was a Vorpanzer (obviously).
• The sprocket wheel external bolts were aligned with the wheel spokes, as were the sprocket teeth, but the hub nuts were not aligned with the spokes.
• One would have thought that this Tiger would have had ‘mirror’ tracks; in the photographs I have seen it did not. I wonder, therefore, whether this Tiger sported the first type of non-mirror tracks, a decision which was ‘modified’, then later re-simplified? Either that or the reference date on the pictures is wrong and the Tiger was photographed later than April 1942 (i.e. post-August 1942).
• There was no sighting wire on the forward cupola slit.
• There were no rain cover posts on the cupola.
• Despite sporting the Vorpanzer, the forward sections of the hull had holes for tow shackles.
• The turret roof extraction fan had an armoured cover applied in the photographs I can see.
• There were no hatch hooks on the rear hull deck grates.
• There was no crank starter plate.
• The engine hatch (like Tiger 111) had no rectangular air intake aperture in the forward position.
• There were no lightweight front mudguards; these were solid metal extensions of the glacis pate, further – this area had no circular cut-outs for ‘lorry camouflage’.
• The exhausts had no shrouds, but also had no flappers, or bolt mechanism for attaching circular metal covers; the upper aspects of the exhausts were blank discs with a hole in for exhaust gases.
• The rear mudguards look the same as the Initial Tiger 1’s.
• This Tiger had a rectangular convoy light, as seen later on Tiger 111.
• Fgst.Nr.V1 had no armoured guards around the final drives.

I think this Tiger was (at some point, at least) Primer Red. Having discussed this with David Byrden we have come to the conclusion that the barrel is a darker colour, one assumes it would be the heat resistant dark grey we hear so much about.

So…here goes!


Bill
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 - 03:39 AM UTC
Hi Will; great to hear from you!

Your late Tiger 1 with Verlinden interior sounds great! Personally I find building & (especially) painting interiors a step too far for my nerves. Kudos. I would love to see your work. Do you think that snorkel thing telescopes?

More to come soon enough.


Bill

http://panzersinscale.blogspot.com/
Abydos
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Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 - 08:32 PM UTC
Hi Bill, after viewing your blog, it has encouraged me to do a build of the later early version with a complete interior, soon i will have pics for you, i am working on the wiring and the engine compartment now. what kinda of baffles me is the snorkel tube in the back, "storage room for it is tight", not to mention the hoses around the carbs from the fans i found that the verlinden interior with some modification is working good,
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 - 05:48 PM UTC
Yo Buddy! Parcel in the post for you...talking of which:

The Academy sprocket wheels prepped for hub rotation;



The VK 45.01 (H) configuration;



So; internal (hub) bolts un-aligned with the spokes, external bolts AND sprocket teeth aligned with the spokes. He he...I love it when a plan comes together!

Many thanks to my 'Master Caster'.


Bill
Beaver2206
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Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 - 03:12 PM UTC
Cracking line-up dude, So so much detail in these pages.

Stuart
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 - 11:56 AM UTC
Hi Eddy!

An excellent set of observations there, thank you for taking the time to post up.

As far as finding time - Tiger Evolution took a back-burner a few months ago & so the blog has become very much a cerebral process, which by the way has been immensely enjoyable. I have truly appreciated the help of David & Phil (and Grant too) and have been graced with a lot of support of the Armorama Tigerfans (thanks guys).

So, for now I am back on the blog & am building again...I got caught by a couple of inexpensive DML deals at my LHS, so have squeezed in VK 45.01 (H) and 250014, not to forget an innominate Tiger, 'TBA', which I suspect might be Tiger 113/14/3...but more of that later.

The Tiger prototype sports non-mirror tracks here, the sprocket wheels have unique style; aligned spokes with exterior bolts, anti-aligned hub nuts (thanks David). A friend on MilMod asked me what colour I will paint this tank - looking at it I think the colour is darker that simple Panzergrau (the barrel is darker still). David agrees with me & I think I might go for Rotbraun for the AFV & dark grey for the gun, but that is very much in the mix at the moment.

Currently I am scrutinising the three photos I have in Jentz/Doyle and Tiger 1 Operational History 1943-1945 vol 1 (Trojca). I will create a list of build features for you all very soon, then on to the build!

Thanks again for looking in.


Bill
Braille
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Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 - 03:03 AM UTC
Bill,

I've been following your build log and looks like you have a lot to chew on already. I don't know where you find the time? Anyhow your doing a splended job of it so far.

I am looking forward to your next build as I am also going to be putting one of these together for the Tiger Campaign. I was wondering how you will be going about painting this vehicle as it appears to be sporting a very hasty spayed Panzer Gray over a red oxide primer coat? My best guess! Just look at the wheels and the rear most section of the upper side hull armor plate. The movable front armor plate seems a bit weathered and really showing the red oxide primer? As is the upper parts of the turret and barrel housing. The barrel seems to be darker than the rest of the painted areas and the muzzle brake may still be in its original black color from the vendor?

When was this photograph taken? Had they replaced the original mirrored tracks? Well Bill, give me some anwers! And David, where are you!!!

Keep'em coming!
-Eddy
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Sunday, January 30, 2011 - 05:37 AM UTC
Hello Phil!

Now that's what I call a friendly face. Thanks for that.

This prototype has a few subtle differences to the production versions, I shall try & list them for you. If anybody wants to chip in with advice, please feel free! (Hi David; nudge, nudge, wink, wink).


Bill
barkmann424
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Posted: Sunday, January 30, 2011 - 03:54 AM UTC
Morning Bill!
So you have finally found space on your overloaded workbench for the next Tiger on the evolutionary tree? Vor!!! What a subject! I think the thing that I am enjoying about the 'Schwere Saga' is how the ungainly look of this legendary leviathan soften along the way with it's re-engineering and battlefield experience... Until you end up with the GT model Lates, not forgetting the Van Den Plas Mids!
May you scalpel never blunt, or your airbrush ever clog!

Hopefully I should be back near a workbench very soon... I do prefer 1/35 to 1/1... It is a hell of a lot lighter!

Cheers muchly Bill... Phil!
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Saturday, January 29, 2011 - 01:34 PM UTC
Back in the saddle.

Next up - this blog goes retrospective; I will build from start to finish - build/paint/build/paint etc until we're Tiger-ed out.

The first kit to build & paint is VK 45.01 (H)



I will use DML 6252 and the MR Models resin Vorpanzer conversion, I will convert Academy sprocket wheels using cast resin hubs and I will use non-mirror tracks (probably Karaya). Any PE will be Voyager Moggle.

Wish me luck!


Bill

http://panzersinscale.blogspot.com/
ChrisDM
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Posted: Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 06:17 AM UTC
nice production line you have going there Billbo
tomapaul
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Posted: Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 06:03 AM UTC
Now this makes me mad!!! I'm a lazy boy...a real modeling slug.

Really nice to see all those tigers. Keep up the good work, hope to see them painted very soon.
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, January 06, 2011 - 10:13 AM UTC
Hi Stu & Warren and all the boys!

So far this winter I had the crazy idea of painting the 18 (or so) built Panzers in virtual unison. Currently I hit my ceiling at 5 per go...any more than that I think I might go completely mad, that or a divorce. Ulp...

Either way; this Tiger's tale will continue in February (2011)! Whoop!

ATM I have six builds complete; Aug, Sep, Nov, Dec 1942, Jan 1943 and a summer 1944 jobbie. I got DML6252 as a Christmas pressie for October 1942 and will upgrade a Tamiya DAK Tiger to the Bovington Tiger for February 1943...then reckon I might paint the eight as a batch & then move on.

In the meantime wrap your laughing gear around this lot;



Ciao ciao & thanks for looking!


Bill

Panzers In Scale
warreni
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Posted: Monday, January 03, 2011 - 08:06 PM UTC
Hi Bill and COmpany.

Bill, I think you are even crazier than me with my six campaigns at once build!

But it will be amazing to see all those Tigers on the one bench when you are finished. Over the years I have built the grand total of two Tigers, the OO/HO AIrfix one from many many moons ago, and the very old Tamiya 1/35th one which I was given for nothing and I bodged together. I have quite a few Dragon TIgers in the stash as well as the Academy one with full interior. WIll have to get around to building one soon..

Good luck with your project Sir.

Regards
Warren
Beaver2206
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Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - 04:39 PM UTC
Watcha Bill.

Loads of great info on here dude, fantastic attention to detail.

Stuart
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - 03:33 PM UTC
Nice one; that one should fit really well into the scheme of things, shouldn't it? Great to hear it will accommodate Tiger Befehlswagen 'A' of sPzAbt 507 as well!

Back on track very soon.

Cheers!


Bill
Byrden
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Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 - 02:26 PM UTC
Bill:

The good news is that your chosen ‘Tiger A’ befehlswagen sPzAbt 507, is right there in that box.

I can't say when or if a standard version will appear. Gave my word to keep mum.

This one has no Feifel gear or standard rear wall.

David

Major-Hazard
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Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 - 01:24 PM UTC
Looks like this;



Will be an interesting option for the mid-Tiger 1's in the series.

Looking forward to the DML release also (hoping there will be one soon...)

Anybody have ideas about decal options in this 6660 release? Will it just be Tiger Befehlswagen A2?

Cheers!


Bill
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 05:42 PM UTC
This is the line-up so far;


Aug 1942; Tiger 111 sPzAbt 502, Fgst 250008

Sep 1942; Tiger 112, sPzAbt 501, Fgst 250012

Oct 1942; Fgst 250014 (TRANSPORT)

Nov 1942; Tiger 123, sPzAbt 503

Dec 1942; Fgst 250053, Wa Preuf 6

Jan 1943; Tiger 822, Das Reich (TRANSPORT)

Feb 1943; Tiger 131, sPzAbt 504 (Bovington Tiger)

Mar 1943; Tiger 323, Pz Dv Muncheberg, Berlin 1945 (assumed March build)

Apr 1943; F02 Fehrmann (assumed April build)

May 1943; Factory-finish Fgst 250234 (TRANSPORT)

Jun 1943; Tiger A02, Großdeutcshland

Jul 1943; Tiger 8 'Strolch', Tiger Gr Meyer, Italian Front 1943

Aug 1943; Red W11, sPzAbt 506

Sep 1943; Tiger 113, sPzAbt 509

Oct 1943; Tiger 113, sPzAbt 501 (TRANSPORT)

Nov 1943; Tiger ‘White-outline 2 or 3’, sPzAbt 508

Dec 1943; Tiger 321, SSsPzAbt 101

Jan 1944; ‘Tiger A’ befehlswagen sPzAbt 507

Feb 1944; Tiger 300, sPzAbt 505, Fgst 250829

Mar 1944; Tiger 312, sPzAbt 504 (wrecked in a ditch in Italy)

Apr 1944; Tiger 122, sPzAbt 503 ex-Kampfgruppe Mittermeier

May 1944; Tiger 114, sSSPzAbt 102, Fgst 251114

Jun 1944; Stripey Tiger Großdeutcshland (TRANSPORT)

Jul 1944; Tiger 912, Totenkopf

Aug 1944; Tiger 332, sPzAbt 510


Then two Sturmtigers for good measure, taking us well into to autumn 1944.

Abyssinia!


Bill
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 05:31 PM UTC
By Jove, I think (I've) got it!

Feb 1944; Tiger 300, sPzAbt 505, Fgst 250829

Mar 1944; Tiger 312, sPzAbt 504 (wrecked in a ditch in Italy)

Apr 1944; Tiger 122, sPzAbt 503

May 1944; Tiger 114, sSSPzAbt 102

Jun 1944; Two-tone ’Stripey Tiger’, Großdeutcshland (en route to unit in June 1944, no tac numbers or Balkancreuz)

Jul 1944; Tiger 912, Totenkopf

Aug 1944; Tiger 332, sPzAbt 510


Panzers in Scale

Let me know what you think...
Byrden
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Posted: Friday, November 12, 2010 - 09:07 AM UTC
It must have had a 2-part roof because those date from May. The last Tigers were delivered to the unit on 26 July. I think it's a July build.

David
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Friday, November 12, 2010 - 08:17 AM UTC
Hello David

Would Totenkopf Tiger 912 have been of July or possibly even August 1944 production? Would it have had a turret roof central weld seam also?


Bill
Byrden
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 04:52 PM UTC
912 does have the large muzzle brake, possibly a part swapped from another tank. It has Pilze and the original cupola drain slots; not the later ones that were centered between the periscopes.



David
Byrden
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 05:38 AM UTC
Totenkopf got new Tigers in May. 901 is an early March build. The fact that it is a few weeks older than expected, suggests that it really is a Befehlswagen. They tended to sit around the factory for a while.

David
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 03:09 AM UTC
Hi David & Grant

Re Totenkopf Tiger 901 (presumed) Befehlswagen; if this was a command tank - which month would it have rolled off the production line? Can we see Pilzen? I have noticed that some of the Befehlswagen Tigers seem to be earlier than their month of production - I guess (like some Panzer IV Befehlswagens) that the tanks were set aside for completion/conversion, which took a little longer? Is there any way of knowing this? (ie specific despatch dates of Befehlswagen Tigers toTotenkopf in spring/summer 1944 etc).

Re Totenkopf Tiger 912 - did it have the larger muzzle break? If not - I will gladly put it in for June 1944, but any ideas for a final mod Tiger (eg August 1944) with a large muzzle break?

Cheers!


Bill