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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Tiger Evolution
Bratushka
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 01:38 PM GMT+7
Thanks for doing this! It will be an outstanding reference!

I just checked around for a copy of The Modeller’s Guide to the Tiger Tank and found one -and only one- through an Amazon.com seller priced at $113 plus change. (and I didn't add an extra "1" in the price!)
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 01:36 PM GMT+7
Hello Dave; I think I have some Lion Roar stuff to use on an upcoming Tiger 1 in the series (the David Parker Doppleganger). I can do a ‘live’ comparison then.

Hi Kirk! Nice picture – we are seeing a lot of rain ATM (no surprises there, then). Hrmph. That sky is beautiful; I guess it is nowhere near LA, then…he he. Thanks for taking the time to post that up.

Hello Frank & David! Gracias for the info, muchachos. I must say 111 is pretty much done now, but I might add that battle damage to the front plate later on. Regards the horseshoe; during this series you will see one on every build. It is not there for accuracy or as an imitation, just that I have liked popping a horseshoe on every build in the last year or so; see if you can spot any on:

http://panzersinscale.blogspot.com/

I have been very pleased to have all of your advice & those super pictures – they are really helpful. Any pictures/reference/advice on 501/DAK Tigers with the face-to-front tow cables would be most welcome! As would pictures of sPzAbt 503 ‘Tiger 123’ and sPzAbt 503 ‘Tiger 323’.


Bill

PS Frank; love the Avatar! (I remember when they geusted on 'The Young Ones' in the 1980's - what a larf!)
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 10:21 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

There are many photos of this Tiger because it lasted about a year, being renumbered as '2', then '5', then '31'. But it had a new turret, indeed that's where the number '2' came from.
I don't see any evidence of a horseshoe on the tank. The front hull did have a distinguishing feature; a patch of steel welded over a hit by the driver's visor. Here's a precise diagram of the part you need to make


I never knew #2 and #111 were one in the same!







Byrden
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Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 07:46 AM GMT+7
There are many photos of this Tiger because it lasted about a year, being renumbered as '2', then '5', then '31'. But it had a new turret, indeed that's where the number '2' came from.

You can see the photos thumbnailed.

I don't see any evidence of a horseshoe on the tank. The front hull did have a distinguishing feature; a patch of steel welded over a hit by the driver's visor. Here's a precise diagram of the part you need to make (full size, in millimeters):



David

Plasticbattle
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Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 05:47 AM GMT+7
And ........ 3 quick images of version 111 that might help some, if its not already too late.







Plasticbattle
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Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 05:20 AM GMT+7
Hi Bill. I have been watching this thread for a few weeks, but never really had the time to get involved. Im hoping to one day build version 100, so have found this thread very interesting, and have been admiring your work so far. Keep it up! I have 2 suitable images regarding the comments below ... both are verion 100 though. Images for discussion only.


Quoted Text

You've put the turret MG protruding a long way out, was this common? Or even possible?

Hello David; if you get the chance to find any pictures of said co-axial MG I would love to see them.






hedorah59
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California, United States
Joined: May 04, 2009
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Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 12:00 AM GMT+7
Okay Bill - Here is what it was like today. Upper 60's and sunny, gorgeous day.



And to bring it back on topic (At LEAST back to modeling ) Here is my newest aquisition, just picked it up at my hobby shop this afternoon

hedorah59
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California, United States
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Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 - 07:49 PM GMT+7
Hi Bill - I am headed out the door right now, I will post a couple of pics for you when I get back
Totalize
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Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 - 06:11 PM GMT+7
Bill, I like the deck screens on this Tiger. I have a similar set from Aber but in my haste used another set from Lionroar I believe. These are more accurate I think as they have a bit of a wavy look to them which I think is more reflective of the actual screens on the early Tigers.
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 - 01:14 PM GMT+7
Thanks for that Kirk; I am just prepping a passel o'Friuls ATM.

What is the weather like in California ATM? Can you show me a picture? I went to LA once upon a time.


Bill
hedorah59
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Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 - 12:07 AM GMT+7
Your first build looks great, Bill! I am eagerly looking forward to the second
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 12:48 PM GMT+7
Tiger 1, Initial (sPzAbt 501/‘DAK’)

The second build of this run will incorporate items from Dragon 6252, Tiger 1 Initial Production, Leningrad 1943 and necessary supplements from the Tamiya ‘DAK’ Tiger 1 kit. My initial plan was to use the Tamiya kit wholly, but on inspection that kit has an incorrect engine deck configuration and will lends itself better to a later Tiger in the production run (I will use this for the David Parker 1943 sPzAbt 502 Doppleganger Tiger). There will be a styrene DAK-style turret bin on this build. This Tiger was produced in the autumn of 1942 (September) and was one of the first 20 of the production run. You will recognise the Initial Tiger 1 features throughout this build, but will also spot the obvious upgrades.

Principally the popular concept of a DAK Tiger was an initial Tiger 1 with some embellishment. There were subtle differences between many of the DAK Tigers, but this one will represent one of the earliest arrivals in Tunisia, having been received by the sPzAbt 501 and then later passed over to the 10 Pz Div in North Africa. Looking at later DAK Tigers they look very similar to the classic ‘Early’ Tiger 1, with few identifiable DAK features, but with this build I hope to encapsulate the distilled DAK version. Having spent time looking for the right Tiger 1, Afrika I have come to the conclusion that Tiger 112, later 812 and finally 712 (same Tiger, different tac numbers under different companies/Abteilungen) is the correct AFV to build; an Initial Tiger 1 with back-to-front tow ropes, sloped fenders and all the trimmings (that I can see). Some of the additions may be incorrect, but I will throw the DAK book at this tank and hope to give it the number 112, which will represent Fgst 250012, which is just a pigeon step away from the last build, but will have a number of differences, albeit superficial.

Features of this build will include;

Tiger 1early 88mm barrel
Initial style gun mantlet
Asymmetrical turret rear pistol ports
DAK style turret bin (different to the later production version)
Unique DAK-style louvered exhaust shrouds
Spare track carriage at the bottom of the rear plate
The first application of all left-hand run Tiger 1, early tracks
Reverse tow cable stowage
Unique track cable stowage
Ranging vane on the turret
Flappers on the exhaust
Initial style crank starter mount
Second style tow U-hooks (rounded shanks)
Early-style Feifel and apparatus
Glacis mounted twin Bosch lights
DAK-style round-edged rear mudguards
Angulated fender runs on both sides
Rear plate mounted tool box
Camouflage loops introduced
Rear plate reflector (absent in the first build)

This project will use the following items;

• PzKpfwVI Ausf E SdKfz 181, Tiger 1 Initial Production, ref 6252
• Tamiya DAK Tiger, ref 6252 for specific DAK spares
• Friul Tiger 1 Early tracks
• Voyager Model DAK Tiger 1 for Tamiya PE set, ref 35227
• Armorscale 8.8cm KwK 36 L/56 Tiger I barrel & resin mantlet (early model), ref
• Aber MG 34 machine gun tips barrel for turret mount, ref 35L83
• Aber Barrel for German Tank MG 34 machine guns, ref 35L63
• RB Models turned brass antenna, ref 35A02
• Voyager Model Feifel hoses
• Aber 15t jack

Items to be used from the Tamiya DAK Tiger;

• Turret bin
• Early design Feifel
• Rear plate tool box

I shall also have to raid the spares box for a number of items along the way.

The final finish of the kit will include base-colour tactical number (112) with white outlines on left and right aspects of the turret. I suspect that this build will be more of a challenge than the last one.


Bill

http://panzersinscale.blogspot.com/
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 12:45 PM GMT+7




That is all for today and thanks for looking in! Comments, questions & critique warmly welcomed.

This draws to a close Tiger build number 1 (notwithtanding the requisite grub screw shots, which will come soon enough), so the next shots will be WIP of Tiger build number 2; DAK-attack!


Bill

http://panzersinscale.blogspot.com/
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 12:41 PM GMT+7


Further overhead shot of the engine deck.


Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 12:40 PM GMT+7


This gives you a glimpse of the additional detailing that the drum cupola and loaders hatch got before completion; the addition of the rain shield posts and some finer detailing of the hinges of those areas in PE. I was going to stamp on the loaders hatch grab handle with my size 10 jackboots, but sense got the better of me there. The turret is still intact…
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 12:39 PM GMT+7


Front plate and glacis; little more to add about this view other than the sublimely detailed front mudguards. These were unique to the Initial production and were phased out relatively quickly. Dragon do offer an appliqué PE part (with no less than three tread-plate pattern options), but Voyager Model take the prize with 3-D detailing, rivet detail and fantastic hinges (two per side), which obfuscates from the very start! One tiny additional item of detail are the mudguard latches; three parts of PE per side, a hook, its base and a strap for the fender. Fantastic!
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 12:38 PM GMT+7


The completed rear plate shows the unique OVM tool stowage that 111 had. The OVM tool detailing includes (from left to right); brackets for the jack, crank started handle, track pin tool, spade and sledge hammer. I have looked very closely at the rear of 111 to ascertain whether the tool on the right was a sledge hammer or an axe, but in one shot it looks like the former, the other the latter (shadows cause an awful lot of confusion). In the absence of upper hull detail shots I have omitted further OVM tools save the fire extinguisher (which you can see clearly here) and cleaning rods from the tank. This picture also shows you the angular style of the initial towing U-hooks; another fine piece of detailing from Dragon as even the pins are metal. The tow cable has the longer (earlier) shanks to the tow eyes, these will change to the shorter style soon enough.
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 12:37 PM GMT+7





If this Tiger tank were musical I believe it would be a version of Jo Whiley’s Live Lounge; stripped back to the bare bones, yet essentially beautiful and melodic. The frippery of the later Tigers is absent, evidenced by the speed of construction and detailing. This final series of shots shows the first project completed bar one item; addition of the grub screws to the gun sleeve, which I will add before moving on to the DAK Tiger. I will explain this process and the rationale for it when I show pictures at the time.

These four overhead shots give you a general impression of what 111 would have looked like in its heyday. The rain cover posts are in situ (an afterthought last night), the fire extinguisher is made with the Voyager Model PE & a modified Tamiya piece (nice to see Tamiya put another look in there) and the obvious soft copper Karaya cable mounted as though for immediate deployment in case of problems. You can also see the five gun cleaning rods, which were individually cleaned up, separated and had their ends opened up with a 0.5mm drill bit to accommodate the male/female pairing mechanism when making the single rod (these individual rods are longer than the later ones used on the Tiger 1 and are not available as an AM item that I am aware of, so I modified the kit pieces).
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 09:03 AM GMT+7
Hi Stu - I have decided not to texture the armour surfaces of these builds. There are some techniques that I have made a decision not to employ & that is one.

Hello David; if you get the chance to find any pictures of said co-axial MG I would love to see them.


Bill
Byrden
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Posted: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 04:06 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi David

I shall endeavour to keep it further back next time. Thanks for the memo; have you got any pictures of the usual coaxial appearence?

Bill



Can't go looking at photos now, but the diagram in the Turret Manual shows only the flared part of the MG protruding.

David
Beaver2206
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Posted: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 03:57 PM GMT+7
The smoke dischargers will paint up nicely, the wire details is a nice touch.

Have you thought of texturing the hull plates slightly with a rotary tool? Comes out like pitting when painted.

Stuart
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 03:20 PM GMT+7
Hi David

I shall endeavour to keep it further back next time. Thanks for the memo; have you got any pictures of the usual coaxial appearence?

Bill
Byrden
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Posted: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 03:10 PM GMT+7
You've put the turret MG protruding a long way out, was this common? Or even possible?

David
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 01:15 PM GMT+7






Turret detail, specifically with reference to the smoke dischargers; here you can see a close detail shot of the Aber turret MG34. This is a finely detailed piece of ‘aftermarketry’ that I can’t recommend highly enough. Stand alone it might seem to be relatively unassuming, but in addition to the other detail pieces it brings the kit to life and will definitely help to make the final piece a show model. I follow David Byrden’s advice not to let this part protrude too much – as listed in his Tiger 1 info website.

The final topic of discussion rests entirely with the turret smoke dischargers. Right from the start these six Dragon brass forms stun you. The turret mounted smoke dischargers fired a Schnellnebelkerze (NbK-S-39) smoke canister and had a slightly complex firing mechanism (at least, complex to correctly render it in 1/35). The kit option does include parts for the firing mechanism and spring clip retainer, but omits the retaining chain or wire from the turret. These items were factory installed from August 1942 until May 1943 (the Tiger 1 was still designated as Early then, but minus the smoke dischargers). I feel that yet again Voyager Model lets the detailer down as the kit parts do require a little something, yet the aftermarket contingent are silent. I have scratched the ignition wore from the turret to the canisters and created weld beading around the superior surface of the smoke dischargers’ attachment strip. The interior detail of these canisters is actually highly impressive and Dragon gets a big thumbs-up from me for that.

Jobs to do;

* I must remember to add the rain shield rods to the drum cupola, which were welded to the top ring of the cupola until January 1943.
* Front mudguards.
* Spade
* Fire extinguisher
* snagging points

That is all for today and thanks for looking in!


Bill

http://panzersinscale.blogspot.com/
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 01:13 PM GMT+7


Overhead shot; reminiscent of the initial shots of the Afrika Tiger now resting in Bovington, which was pictured for posterity shortly after capture in a similar manner. I think this picture speaks for itself. Note the addition PE parts to the cupola and loader’s hatch – such a small part will make a difference in the final reckoning. Shame about the Tipp-Ex; it breaks up such a lovely finish.