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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Prepping for Tamiya 1/35 M60A1 build
Horrido
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Washington, United States
Joined: January 06, 2003
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 10 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 06:47 PM GMT
I'm gearing up to build a 1/35 Tamiya M60A1, kit no. 30228A, and I'm looking for aftermarket sets, references, and advice. The kit is to be modeled after the tank my father served on at Ft. Hood in 1968-69. I have the Eduard photo-etch set for the Tamiya kit, and the Barrel Depot barrel with the mud guard (is there a rifled equivalent out there?) that is appropriate for the time. I have his M60A1 manual and the Squadron Signal offering for references, but would like to add significantly to that collection. My intent is to detail the interior, much as was done by Don Franklin: http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=1708 .

I am aware of the AFV club tracks, but was wondering if there were other track options (Modelkasten?) suitable for the type. I'm also hoping to learn of any other aftermarket sets or barrels available (I'm running searches, but items can be a difficult to discover and chase down) that are superior to what I already have.

I have heard mention the Tamiya M60A1 has some accuracy issues. What are the Tamiya kit's problems, and can they be corrected (Or should I bag it now, hunt down an Italeri kit and detail set, and go from there?) Most of my modeling experience is with 1/72 aircraft, so detailing and kit-bashing is not new to me, though there are nuances to armor modeling in which I'd really appreciate your folks' suggestions and advice.

I think that about covers it, so take care, and thank you!


mazyen
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Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: June 21, 2007
KitMaker: 85 posts
Armorama: 63 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 09:36 PM GMT
I've a Tamiya, a Academy & a ESCI kit. From these 3 the ESCI's is the most detailed of the lot & it comes with styrene link & length tracks which are much better than the vinyl ones from the other 2 manufacturers. There r still a few of these been sold on ebay. Even the IDF version should fit your requirements as it comes together with all the parts to be build into a USA version.
Cheers
Lee
IDFPaul
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Canada
Joined: April 01, 2008
KitMaker: 29 posts
Armorama: 22 posts
Posted: Monday, September 06, 2010 - 01:23 AM GMT
The Esci (italeri reboxed it so its the same kit) is the best of the bunch. You will still need the AFV tracks however, as the kit tracks are the later octagon pad T142 tracks and in 1968 the T97 chevron tracks were used
lukiftian
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 12, 2010
KitMaker: 790 posts
Armorama: 591 posts
Posted: Monday, September 06, 2010 - 01:38 AM GMT
The problem with Tamiya's kits is that they sit too high, but this can be remedied by cutting the tabs on the torsion bars and adjusting as desired, otherwis for a 40 year old kit it's not too bad. What we really need (HobbyBoss) is a brand new tooling.
Horrido
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Washington, United States
Joined: January 06, 2003
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 10 posts
Posted: Monday, September 06, 2010 - 02:54 AM GMT
So, the shape and dimensions of the Tamiya kit hull and turret are fundamentally accurate? I'm inclined to wipe various molded details off the kit, anyway, and rebuild them from scratch.

Also, does the Italeri kit come with the searchlight? I need to ask my dad regarding that subject, because I've seen references regarding infra-red, and my dad always commented on the impressive candle-power of the light that was mounted. The light in his photo also appears subtly different than the Tamiya kit light.
TankCarl
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: May 10, 2002
KitMaker: 3,393 posts
Armorama: 2,599 posts
Posted: Monday, September 06, 2010 - 09:34 AM GMT
If you can get a searchlight, from an M48 by Tamiya, that is the best. Also, in the late 60's the aircleaner boxes would have the acess doors on the side.
GeraldOwens
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Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 2,763 posts
Armorama: 2,725 posts
Posted: Monday, September 06, 2010 - 04:59 PM GMT
Tamiya's kit turret (assuming it's the 1990's reissue depicting a USMC vehicle, kit 35157), has the late 1970's turret casting, which has the undercut at the base of the turret at the three o'clock and nine o'clock positions replaced by a vertical section and thicker "cheeks" added on either side of the gun mantlet near the turret ring. These would have to be sanded away. The Tamiya hull uses the parts from their 1970 kit, which are poorly detailed and engineered. It also has the armored top-loading air cleaner boxes, which again, are too late for your dad's vehicle. It comes with the M48-style steel road wheels, which were not introduced on M60 series tanks until 1980 (the aluminum wheels were not durable enough, so the Army reverted to the earlier type and accepted the weight penalty).
The Italeri/Revell Germany kit (originally released by Esci, and sometimes seen in Ertl or AMT boxes), depicts the early turret and aluminum wheels, and is much better in overall detail. One oddity is that it has the inner half of a thermal sleeve on the gun tube (apparently a fluke modification on the Italian Army tank they measured), so the section between the mantlet and the bore evacuator is present, but the outer section is not. An M60A1 should not have a sleeve, and an M60A3 should have a complete one, so either way, the kit needs a small modification.
For the early chevron style tracks, you'll need a set from AFV Club.
Yoni_Lev
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Washington, United States
Joined: September 20, 2007
KitMaker: 858 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Monday, September 06, 2010 - 09:37 PM GMT
In case you haven't already seen the M60 kit comparison over on ML, you can find it here.

HTH.

-YL
Horrido
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Washington, United States
Joined: January 06, 2003
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 10 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 12:05 AM GMT
Carl,

Do you happen to know which boxing of the Tamiya M48 I should go after, or are they all good so long as they have a searchlight?

Gerald,

The Tamiya kit I have is the Army one copyrighted 1990, kit 30228A ( 31228A on the instruction sheet, oddly). I've also procured the Barrel Depot barrel with the mud guard, so the barrel issue should be solved, though I wouldn't mind a barrel featuring rifling.

Yoni,

Thank you very much for posting that link, it addresses a lot of my questions.
HeavyArty
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Virginia, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 12,411 posts
Armorama: 9,512 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 12:42 AM GMT

Quoted Text

...which boxing of the Tamiya M48 I should go after...



It doesn't matter, there was/is only one version and all the different boxings are all the same.

I would really go with one of the Esci M60s or as reboxing by Italeri or Revell. The Tamiya hull is horrible and the upgraded turret isn't that great either. Even with the AM barrel, you can only polish a turd so much.
ptruhe
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Texas, United States
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,805 posts
Armorama: 1,379 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 01:35 AM GMT

Quoted Text

Do you happen to know which boxing of the Tamiya M48 I should go after, or are they all good so long as they have a searchlight?



I can spare the seachlight parts.

Paul
TonyDz
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United States
Joined: December 13, 2009
KitMaker: 420 posts
Armorama: 419 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 02:17 AM GMT

Quoted Text

The problem with Tamiya's kits is that they sit too high, but this can be remedied by cutting the tabs on the torsion bars and adjusting as desired, otherwis for a 40 year old kit it's not too bad. What we really need (HobbyBoss) is a brand new tooling.



Good ole internet misiformation. It's not the Tamiya M60 kits that sits too high, it is the M48A3 kit. For a 40 year old kit it is what it is, junk. A couple problems with the Tamiya M60A1 kit are it has no dust cover for the mantlet and the poly cap hubs used to hold on the roadwheels are junk. As pointed out by others, use the ESCI kit and AFV Club tracks with the chevron pattern. The ESCI kits come with the side loader air cleaners that you would need.


Quoted Text

I have the Eduard photo-etch set for the Tamiya kit, and the Barrel Depot barrel with the mud guard (is there a rifled equivalent out there?)



What is a mud guard? You should get a M68 105MM barrel without thermal wrap.
m75
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California, United States
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 392 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 04:48 AM GMT
Close to the M60, I used the AF tracks for my M88. Well worth the slight expense and a little challenging, but only took a day, and looks great.
Horrido
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Washington, United States
Joined: January 06, 2003
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 10 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 12:48 PM GMT
Paul,

I wouldn't mind having an M48 in the mix, and may already have a Tamiya M48 buried somewhere. I can make a resin cast from that, but thank you very much for your offer.

Tony,

The barrel is as follows, and the description is "mud shield". So much for working from memory: http://www.missionmodels.com/product.php?productid=16825&cat=376&page=1
HeavyArty
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Virginia, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 12,411 posts
Armorama: 9,512 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 01:13 PM GMT

Quoted Text

The barrel is as follows, and the description is "mud shield". So much for working from memory: http://www.missionmodels.com/product.php?productid=16825&cat=376&page=1



It is the correct M68 barrel, but it still isn't a mud shield. It is the bore evacuator. It creates a vacuum as the shell and hot gasses pass and pulls the toxic fumes down the barrel and prevents them from entering the crew compartment. It has nothing to do with mud at all. The description is wrong.
Horrido
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Washington, United States
Joined: January 06, 2003
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 10 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 01:32 PM GMT
The plastic/rubber corrugated tubing resembling drainage tile at the base of the barrel adjacent to the mantlet?

http://gallery.kitmaker.net/data/20278/thumbs/fig3-pt2.jpg
HeavyArty
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Virginia, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 12,411 posts
Armorama: 9,512 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 01:46 PM GMT
Sorry, now I am following. I thought you meant the cylinder in the middle of the barrel. I have never heard it called a "mud shield" though. It is just part of the mantlet dust cover.
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ptruhe
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Texas, United States
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,805 posts
Armorama: 1,379 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 09:00 AM GMT
Seems the only issue is the vendor description of the barrel:
"BARREL DEPOT 35009 - 1/35 M68 105MM RIFLED GUN WITH MUD SHIELD"

You can find a TM where the bellow is referenced
https://www-tdps.tacom.army.mil/phst/SPI/05/67/40.pdf
or a nice example build where bellow is not referenced:
http://www.guntruck.com/M60MBTPage1.html

Paul
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Charlie-66
#186
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Distrito Federal, Mexico
Joined: May 24, 2006
KitMaker: 432 posts
Armorama: 424 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 04:48 AM GMT
Horrido, I served on M60A1's in the 3rd Armored Cav from 1982 to 1986. I have a ton of pictures of them from those years. I also have a lot of AM stuff I bought back when I was really into building them so I may be able to help with pictures and parts. As your build moves forward let me know what you need. I'll be following it closely as I feel the bug to build another one of these.....hmmm maybe my old blade tank H-65!