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Help ASLAV patrol order - SECDET# or Baghdad
Adamskii
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: November 06, 2010
KitMaker: 537 posts
Armorama: 474 posts
Posted: Friday, November 05, 2010 - 10:17 PM UTC
Hello all fellow Australian modellers.

Straight up so as not to bore anyone, I need to know if there is any circumstance during the SECDET detachments in Baghdad circa 2005 - 2006 that Bushmasters and ASLAV's patrolled together.

I am doing a diorama using a large number of Mouse house Parts (2 conversions; bar armoured phase 3, and a phase 3 type 2PC). I have the MB4 book, and it covers almost everyting I need except the patrol order of the vehicles. From what I can see, a normal patrol consisted of 3 vehicles, with a PC Aslav at the front, another Aslav of any variant in the middle, and the third was the turreted type1 hull - probably because it could swing the turret to the rear if needed) Is this a correct assumption or am I way off mark.

The new Bushmaster model however has thrown a curve ball my way As I would like to put that in between the front and rear vehicle of the patrol, on the diorama. I have photographic proof of it being used in conjuction with ASLAV's, driving on MSR's etc, and interestingly, being escorted in convoy by ASLAV's. But the photos I have are from the AMTG mostly.

I need a valid reason to explain it if someone acually choses to suggest this never happened - Aslav patrol with a bushmaster in Baghdad or its suburbs, circa 2005-2006. I have some flexibility in the timeline, but the ASLAV variant evolution is very particular to timeframe and deployment and for that to be accurate I need to have specifics.

If I cant use the Bushy, then I have to have 3 ASLAV's, can I use 3 different variants to showcase them on the one diorama - eg, recon, PC, and fitters? or ambo? I would like to avoid doing two bar armor variants in one patrol diorama.

I know i'm asking alot on my first ever post, but I hope I have come to the right people. I will try post a couple pics of the diorama layout so you get the idea (as soon as I figure out how), I have already spent a year on it, and hope to have it ready for Melbourne 2011. Its a long trip from adelaide with a backseat full of diorama, I have done it before a few years ago though!

enjoy.

Adam
Adamskii
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: November 06, 2010
KitMaker: 537 posts
Armorama: 474 posts
Posted: Friday, November 05, 2010 - 10:26 PM UTC
jasmils
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,016 posts
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Posted: Saturday, November 06, 2010 - 01:28 AM UTC
G'day Adam,
That's a hard one. 2006 SECDET partol, it's certainly possible to have seen them on convoy and logistics runs, but I doubt it. Later on the BM was used in some aspects of the SECDET rotations but only after about XI rotation (I believe). AMTG ohh hell yes. As AMTG was Mech Inf based operation, but only a few of them. Around 10 in late 2005. 6RAR had the first operational BM is support of SOTG in Afghanistan in Oct 2005
As for the ASLAV patrol order of march, mission applicable mate. Changes from job to job.
As for having all three types in the one patrol, not likely for a three car patrol. 2 gun cars to one PC or F/R (Gun,PC or F/R, Gun). Four to six car troop, yep. But as with anything ASLAV related, anything is possible.
It would properly be easier to do a patrol in the Gahn with ASLAv's and BM's. And you can still have one ASLAV with Bar Armour on the turret from (from memory 2009) I don't know if you have come across this thread yet.
[url=http://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=120708&ord=&page=1]linkname[/Australian LAV (ASLAV) (Renamed Topic)]
That should keep you busy for a while.
If you get stuck on anything else with this one or any of my kits give me a yell.

Cheers Jason
jasmils
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 23, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, November 06, 2010 - 01:31 AM UTC


Dunno what is going on here. your photo is not working and neither is my link????
Adamskii
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: November 06, 2010
KitMaker: 537 posts
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Posted: Saturday, November 06, 2010 - 02:34 AM UTC
Thanks for the info. The thread will be read thoroughly.

My pic well what can I say - I will work out how to post directly into the thread, that one was just a link to an uploaded pic using the url tags in message.

I'll try again.. by the way, awesome work with ACM, have spent many hours chatting with John M till the phone battery went flat about upcoming projects and how to best utilise such the various Aftermarket kits!

I have a massive build log but I guess im somewhat reluctant to offer them until completed. However If I know your going to expo2011 I will definitely have to cross my t's and dot my i's with the vehicles...

Adam [img]http://gallery.kitmaker.net/500/thumbs/IMG_03291.jpg" BORDER="0">[/img]
jasmils
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Posted: Monday, November 08, 2010 - 11:51 AM UTC
Cheers Adam, your comments are very much appreciated mate.
I am working on a few things at the moment, but mainly getting the instructions for the ASLAV-F done so we can get it out. This is going to be a big one!!!!!
I will be at expo as a trader and I hope to have a couple of ASLAV's done for the comp as well.
Just looking at your layout again, if you take into account vehicle spacing etc, you may only get two cars on it. But, place a US Hummer in the side street, move a few bits around and you have a VCP.
It dose remind me of a photo from the early days of a Phase II on SCEDET.

Cheers Jason
grimmo
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Monday, November 08, 2010 - 12:25 PM UTC
Adam, just looked at the pic, thats an awesome look so far! How are the buildings made? You should start a build log for this one.

but, you should be kicked in the nuts for trashing your pool table. Should have put a sheet over it, or some ply to stop damage to it.

(i'm jelous really, wish i had a pool table in my shed!)

Great work so far!

And jason, how's things? Been meaning to ring, but been busy with the bub and ses. Will try and come out and say hello someday!
Adamskii
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Posted: Monday, November 08, 2010 - 10:10 PM UTC
second attempt at this - I lost the first when I added pics (or tried too)

jason, thanks for the suggestion - there absolutely will be the new bronco frag 4 humvee in the side street, manned and with a civillian crowd around them as they will be arresting someone at the checkpoint.

The spacing between the vehicle has been considered, and from the videos I have seen, they bunch up in traffic and at checkpoints/corners etc. probabl;y not supposed to but it is observed. With the crowd and the little s bend in the road caused by barriers I feel a slight bunching may be expected. the pictures do not do it justice - the btr80 I used is quite long.

The pool table isnt mine so some latitude s taken, but I do look after it! just that the pool light makes a great photography studio. The buildings, I m not sure how to blog so I will just post some build log pics. I will gladly explian the hows in due time. Please enjoy them and let me know if I could make improvements, they are definitely works in progress with alot of electrical signage, billboards etc and other thinsg to be added. as well as weathering - these are in their infancy of the paint side of things.
Removed by original poster on 11/09/10 - 10:13:54 (GMT).
grimmo
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Posted: Monday, November 08, 2010 - 10:21 PM UTC
maybe you should get a photobucket account, and upload the pics from there. they have instructions on the website.

www.photobucket.com
Adamskii
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Joined: November 06, 2010
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Posted: Monday, November 08, 2010 - 10:28 PM UTC
plainly I'm missing something real simple or duplicating some text. I uploaded the pics to the armorama account like they said and followed the explainations. hopefully the red cross box links to the folder - at least thats something!


I give up posting pics - tried many combinations but no joy
grimmo
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Posted: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 11:35 AM UTC
Thats ok mate. We will just have to go to your album to look. and i've decided to get a pool table! just have to find some space in my shed now!
Adamskii
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South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 02:04 AM UTC
ok so i'm going to try with photobucket...
Adamskii
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 02:07 AM UTC
"Great success.."!!

so here are the building pics I promised









these are in process photos only and do not represent the final product at all!!!
grimmo
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Friday, November 12, 2010 - 03:37 PM UTC
Brilliant! I hope one day to get my buildings looking as good as yours!

Love the way you have your humbrol paints organised, i might have to do that!
jasmils
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Monday, November 15, 2010 - 11:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Later on the BM was used in some aspects of the SECDET rotations but only after about XI rotation (I believe).



I did a bit more poking around, and nope the Bushmaster has not been used on SECDET missions or patrols.

Cheers Jason
Adamskii
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Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 - 12:42 AM UTC
Thankyou very much for your information. It hurts to hear, but at least i can plan something realistic. If i want to do a BM with a gun car and pc, then it needs to be amtg or similar. RTF ? I wonder? alternatively i guess i could put a civvy car between the 2 aslavs as some kind of diplomatic escort - MIG productions do the hilux's..

Thanks again. As said previously I would prefer not tohave 2 of the same variant on dio, 3 diff aslavs in one patrol maybe ok..

Good to see the ASLAV R almost ready !!

Adam
grimmo
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 - 01:06 PM UTC
I have the Mig hilux, and it's a good kit.

who makes the fridge and stuff?

Cheers!
Adamskii
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: November 06, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 - 02:33 PM UTC
The fridge is from the verlinen set #2299 "home goods (modern) from 1950'2 set 1"

Has some trash cans, tv radio fridge washer dryer etc. painted with two part rust patina (real rust) then used salt technique for white overspray, no washes no drybrush.

Adam
grimmo
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Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 - 07:44 PM UTC
Cheers Adam!
Adamskii
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Posted: Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 12:57 AM UTC
I have summised that I can include my bushmaster when it arrives in the convoy/patrol, if I model it during the 1st or second cycle of the AMTG, en route through the city of Al Samawah. As jason pointed out anything is possible, and I have some photo evidence that combined Movements occured (Aslav and BM) during this time.
I also find interesting that we provided secrity for the JSDF and thier LAV's patrols are flanked by our vehicles, during the JSDF's own RTF and humanitarian work. So i could drop the Tamiya JSDF LAV in the mix instead of the BM. Looks like the US Marines were also in Al Samawah during the time of AMTG and RTF - qualifying my m1114 humvee too!

Started on the aslav pc today. pics to follow soon

Adam
jasmils
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Posted: Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 01:48 AM UTC
G'day Adam,
Just to make it hard for you again, if your going to use my ASLAV crew figures, you may need to shave off the "Mole" (spelling) straps on the body armour and replace them with a wider webbing strap. The body armour is exactly the same but the one I did was the later version. The later version started to come into play around the time of AMTG.
Body Armour pic
I might have a look at back dating and releasing a set of the earlier version without the neck protection.
Cheers Jason
Adamskii
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Posted: Friday, November 26, 2010 - 11:42 PM UTC
Thanks for that Jason, however i will stick with what is molded - figures are my weak spot...

My problem at the moment is some confusion over phase 2 and 3 cupolas for the type 2 pc. I have of course the phase 2 type 2 pc kit, which has the dimenaco(?) mount. I also purchased the phase 3 upgrade to include the Platt mr550 cupola. I was trying to work out how the RWS mounts to the phase 3 cupola? I have since worked out I dont have the parts to do that. It requires the seal solutions spider mount.

I was lead to believe that the spider mount was only seen on type 3 hulls during iraq - (conversation between JM and myself), but would probably be rolled out to all type 2 and 3 hulls eventually. so how does the .50cal mount attach to a MR550 cupola? or does it ? Pictures, yes I have my share lol and there are some that look like its a similar style to the dimenaco one, but the date of the pics is sketchy so not sure if Iraq or Aus.

I would still like to upgrade the phase 2 to phase 3, but I need confirmation photo of an Iraq era phase 3 vehicle with the spider mount on it that is a type 2 hull. Otherwise, i'll stick with a phase 2, and keep my phase 3 upgrade for the ASLAV F due out in January which I know was fitted with the spider mount on it! - unless it already comes as a phase 3.. with seal solutions mount..

By the way, will that conversion have any markings/ decals or a guide to the recovery vehicles and thier names? beavis and butthead ? etc

LOL whatever happened to out of the box !
Adamskii
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: November 06, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 01:35 AM UTC
Here are some shots of the suspension/steering i have modified.





I basically extended the tie rods on one side with 2mm styrene, and shortened the other sde by trimming it. The 1/2 round pins that locate the structs were reduced to 1/4 round ones so they could rotate within the socket.

More to follow ...
jasmils
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 23, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 01:51 AM UTC
This can be a bit tricky. Now assuming we are talking 2005+ Southern Iraq.
OK, first of all, your putting the Kongsberg RWS from AFV Club on the Type 2 PC? If so then you will need MA122 RWS mount and update set and also MA129 Phase III PC upgrade (you have both,cool). You wont be using the MR555 cupola.
Only some PC's had the MR555 Mod 1 (MA129) (or flat top cupola Phase III) and they were on the Amobo's with the rigid .50 cal mount (we haven't made that mount yet). But they mostly used the Dimarco w/.50 (as in the MA120 kit). All other PC's had the Kongsberg RWS on the Dimarco mount swung to 3 o'clock in relation to the front of the hull. No PC's were fitted with the SEAL Solutions (Spider) Mount. Only the Type III F/R. But some Type III's still sported the flex Mag58.
Now, the Dimarco mount is a Phase II cupola and the MR555 is a Phase III cupola. But having said that, the Dimarco on the PC does not mean the PC is a Phase II. You can assume that all ASLAV's in the MEAO after early 2004 were Phase III and all PC's (apart from Ambo's) were fitted with the RWS on the Dimarco mount.

Now to confuse you even more. At times PC's could sport the Dimarco mount with .50 cal if the RWS's were down due to maintenance etc. But this was a very rare occurrence.
In Australia, the Spider mount with MR555 on PC's, MR555 with rigid mount on ACV's and old flex Mag58 on F/R. But, and there is that bloody word again, it depends on the unit, the number of vehicles in the unit and the tempo of the said unit.
Confusing??????


The fitter kit is being boxed as a Phase III but wont have the Spider mount in it. To back date it to a Phase II you just need to swap out the trim vane for a Phase II one and remove a couple of "funny shaped" antenna's for want of a better term. There will be decals in the kit but only the HUD and a couple of others. At last count there were 218 individual parts for the kit over 52 sprue's.

Cheers Jason