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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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222 king tiger hardedge or softedge or mix?
musicwerks
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Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: August 09, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, January 02, 2011 - 07:17 PM UTC
Dear friends,

I know this has been argued many times. Is king tiger 222 by Kurt sowa hardedge or soft edge?

Anyone has color plates for 222?

Kiong
wedgetail53
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, January 02, 2011 - 08:20 PM UTC
Kiong

It's hard edged. If you send me an email I may be able to find some images which will help.

Regards

Rob
thebear
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Monday, January 03, 2011 - 04:05 AM UTC
222 is a bit of both..
soft on the hull side ...


Hard on the turret front...

Soft on the green under the 222 but hard on the redbrown...



and here are a few more ..








all these pictures were found on the net and are for discussion purposes only..

Rick
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 - 05:06 AM UTC
I noticed in the final series of the knocked out 222 there are traces of a German cross faintly visible either painted over or under the number 222 on the turret's left side . Any comments? Were the tanks originally painted with a cross on the turret sides at the factory and when issued, the units over painted the cross with the tank number?
thebear
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Posted: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 - 09:43 AM UTC
222 was suppose to go to the 509th but got sidetracked to the 501st SS for the ardennes campaign...so I guess they painted over the crosses and added the numbers just before the battle..
Big-John
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 - 05:42 PM UTC
The bear is correct, The pictures that show the cross was taken some time after the war when the numbers started to weather away.

Good close up war time photos show a soft edge. The photos above show what looks to be hard edge. Those photos were taken some time after the war where you can see the numbers fading away and the cross showing.

My theory is that it was supposed to go 509 and was painted in a hard edge. Then repainted with a spy gun to cover up 509 markings when it was transferred to 506. Over time, the repaint and numbers washed, or faded away showing the original hard edge.


vanhall
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Groningen, Netherlands
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Posted: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 01:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I noticed in the final series of the knocked out 222 there are traces of a German cross faintly visible either painted over or under the number 222 on the turret's left side . Any comments? Were the tanks originally painted with a cross on the turret sides at the factory and when issued, the units over painted the cross with the tank number?



The cross was also (just) visible on '222' when it was in service.
Here's a still from that well known newsreel from the beginning of the campaign:

panzerfan76
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South Carolina, United States
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Posted: Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 12:01 PM UTC
That last pic is the one that proves the point right there. It appears as though the 501st SS covered it, giving a hard AND soft, at least in the area of the turret #s. One of the reasons why it faded after the battle may be that at that stage of the war, Germany was low on paint (just like everything else) . Crews in the field would thin the paint to make it stretch, with water usually, and I've even heard that solvents were used. There seems to be a new move by paint companies these days to offer a "late war" dark green and red brown, but I think that change in color was due to the thinning. Sorry about the paint thing.
musicwerks
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Singapore / 新加坡
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Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 03:43 AM UTC
Dear all,

Following much discussion on Kurt Sowa's KT222, I have done up my KT in hard and soft edge mixed. Pending more pint wash and weathering and chipping
[imghttp://www.flickr.com/photos/34932586@N06/5433211771/" title="KT222 Hard and Softedge by yeo_wee_kiong, on Flickr">KT222 Hard and Softedge//image.file[/img]

[imghttp://www.flickr.com/photos/34932586@N06/5433830254/" title="KT222 Hard and Softedge by yeo_wee_kiong, on Flickr">KT222 Hard and Softedge//image.file[/img]

KT222 Hard and Softedge//image.file" BORDER="0">


For your viewing pleasure and comments

Kiong


Quoted Text

222 is a bit of both..
soft on the hull side ...


Hard on the turret front...

Soft on the green under the 222 but hard on the redbrown...



and here are a few more ..








all these pictures were found on the net and are for discussion purposes only..

Rick

stansmith
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England - North West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 09:33 AM UTC
i have been wondering for ages, what is the difference between hardedged and soft edged camo?
stan
GewoonWouter
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Antwerpen, Belgium
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Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 07:04 PM UTC
frankly, I think 222 was totally hard edge...hard edge camo (Licht und Schaten) was factory applied. Soft edge was usually field applied camo by the Tiger companies itself. Would seem strange to me if you get a tri-tonal hard edge camo Tiger II from the factory, that the company would add a soft edge on top of it...

Stanley: the names hard edge and soft edge tell the story: hard edge camo is a camo pattern were the edge between the colors is distinct 'hard'...on soft edge camo (which was often field applied without masking) had a more faint edge between the colors

cheers
musicwerks
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Singapore / 新加坡
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Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 11:05 PM UTC
Hi Woulter,

I do agree that a 222 with hard edge seems more possible from what I see from the pics. I also think that a hard edge green would make my model look better.

Anyways, the rationale for the soft edge and hard edge mix....

There were much discussion on-line and here about the 222 that 501 battalion re-applying a "not so well done" soft edge onto a hard edge tiger II that originally belonged to 506. This tank orignially spotted a german cross on the turret, which was later covered with a 222 markings.

Now, where's that fine Tamiya brush? I am so tempted to go over the green with hand paint to make the 222 totally hard edge...

Hahah...I had been repainting and staring at this same tank for so so long since Christmas last year....

Cheers
Kiongs


Quoted Text

frankly, I think 222 was totally hard edge...hard edge camo (Licht und Schaten) was factory applied. Soft edge was usually field applied camo by the Tiger companies itself. Would seem strange to me if you get a tri-tonal hard edge camo Tiger II from the factory, that the company would add a soft edge on top of it...

Stanley: the names hard edge and soft edge tell the story: hard edge camo is a camo pattern were the edge between the colors is distinct 'hard'...on soft edge camo (which was often field applied without masking) had a more faint edge between the colors

cheers

GewoonWouter
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Antwerpen, Belgium
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 06:30 AM UTC
indeed, it never hurts to take your time and re-do some stuff to get the ultimate result

btw: one nice feature about 222, and always forgotten on the models, is that the left front fenderpiece was attached reversed...you can see it clearly on this photo:


maybe an idea to put onto your model ^^

cheers
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 06:35 AM UTC
Actually, this piece is from the right side and was tried to make fit. It was sort of 'take from Paul to pay Peter' solution as now the right side is without!