Яusso-Soviэt Forum: WWII Soviet Armor
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DML T34 - WIP (PICS)
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Monday, February 28, 2011 - 07:07 PM UTC
Some other reference sources: a blog dedicated to T34 with a lot of detail drawings
http://tank-t-34.blogspot.com/

Over 1300 T 34 original pics
http://army.lv/ru/t-34/foto/631/512#info

Color profiles
http://army.lv/ru/t-34/risunki/631/512#info

Internal technical drawings
http://army.lv/ru/t-34/shemi/631/512#info

Internal fuel plant:



Original photos


















As you can see, not always all the external fuel cells were mounted on the tank...
To be correct...Almost never were all together mounted on



Thivi11
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 02:39 AM UTC
Thanks for all the pictures! They were a great help!

The build is done! At least I'm pretty sure it is. I may add some small things here and there but otherwise, everything's glued down. I fixed some minor problems, glued on a few stowage items, extra track etc. and assembled the turret. I'm going to spend today cleaning up track links!

What do you think? Is it believable? How do the tow cables look, etc? Let me have it!













I also tried something I read in a model magazine not too long ago, with the headlights. I put glue on the back of the clear part, and sat aluminum foil on it until it was glued tight, then I scraped off the excess from the edges and glued it into its housing, now if light hits the headlights properly, they will actually "light up".

Thivi11
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 04:56 AM UTC
I also added electrical lines for both headlights using copper wire. I don't think its too thick looking, but the brackets I made to attach the line to the hull may be(I did thin them out and fix them a little after I looked at this picture). I did my best, and think it looks alright; besides hopefully I'll be able to do a lot with paint.




Removed by original poster on 03/01/11 - 20:00:10 (GMT).
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 08:33 AM UTC
Well done Jaredt, you have talent in my opinion. You'll become a skilled modeller before two or three kits.
The pieces alignement is very good, your model is very clean and you did a very good job with pe parts in my opinion.
Your T34 doesn't look like a model built by a beginner
Congrats indeed

There just some flaws that you can still fix it. If you don't mind i'll show them:


You arranged the stuffs on the fender in a very convincing way.
Although there are the ejector pin marks and holes that you should putty (but probably you haven't already done it) Pe as i said are very good indeed


You should remove that flash on the turret base and you should putty the two halves of the gun (i think so. i don't have reference pics now) Anyway probably you'll close the turret so you can avoid to putty them. Otherwise you should putty or/and sand down the seam on the gun mantlet


Tow cables are perfect, and you put on the model in a very good way.
But you should putty that wide split on the base of the turret and that fissure on his side.



Lens flare are crooked, but anyaway probably also on the real tank they were mounted in a wrong way. You should correct that chipping down the hatch and you should sand down the gun barrel 'cause is not perfectly smooth




Well done!! The cables acutally are too thick but is great that you've done this improvement on your first kit, congrats!


Of course you shouldn't intend what i'm writing as a criticism.
I'm not a teacher and I don't want to be considered as a "Know it all" person
In my sincere opinion you did a very good job. If you'll be able to fix this flaws your model will be great indeed!

Cheers

Thivi11
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 08:55 AM UTC
Thanks so much... again! I'm glad you didn't mind following this build and adding criticisms where needed, it was a real help.

I know there's ejector pin marks, I just didn't want to deal with them at the time, was getting lazy and probably should have fixed the few that do show. I'll probably close the turret yes, so there's nothing to worry about there. I can try and putty the gun yes, I haven't used putty too much so we'll see how it goes. I'll try it on the spot on the turret first. I did also notice the lens' crooked, but at the last second and though I'd just leave it. And the copper wire was just stuff I had sitting around so I thought I'd see how it looked.

Otherwise, I am happy with it, and just hope I don't ruin it with paint... airbrush + compressor ship sometime next week!
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 09:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

. I'll try it on the spot on the turret first.





Before putting I advise to glue in the spot a plastic card piece shaped in a correct way. The spot is rather wide so, unless you'll use epoxy putty, common putty maybe won't work

Well jaredt, take your time for the paint and i'm sure that all will go in a good way

Now i'm waiting for your next steps

cheers
drumthumper
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 09:36 AM UTC
Other than the "corrections" stated earlier, it is a fine build so far. However, I am a bit puzzled regarding the length of copper wire draped onto the front of the upper hull and held by three "brackets". A conduit for the light, perhaps? I don't believe I have ever seen one in that location and unless you have photographic evidence of its existence, I will have to question that detail ... or am I missing something

Nice work so far, though ....

Mike Kirchoff
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 09:40 AM UTC


Hi Mike. I think jaredt wanted to depict this detail
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drumthumper
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 09:55 AM UTC
Thanks, Mauro ! I see now .... just not familiar with that type of arrangement on production vehicles. Must be a lead for a German Notek lamp ...? Still a bit puzzled ....

Mike
Thivi11
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 10:02 AM UTC
I can't speak to its authenticity, I just saw it in the pictures, and realized it looked like electrical for the headlight and thought I'd try and recreate it. I just wanted to give it a shot, and the fact that I saw it somewhere was enough.

By the way, I found some stowage I had from a Tamiya Sherman so I thought I'd put it on and see how it looks, none of it is glued. Does it look like it makes sense? I thought the wooden crates were fair game but wasn't sure about the drums. I'd also like to try and make a blanket/tarp or two to put on as well, thoughts?
Thivi11
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 10:03 AM UTC
I can't speak to its authenticity, I just saw it in the pictures, and realized it looked like electrical for the headlight and thought I'd try and recreate it. I just wanted to give it a shot, and the fact that I saw it somewhere was enough.

By the way, I found some stowage I had from a Tamiya Sherman so I thought I'd put it on and see how it looks, none of it is glued. Does it look like it makes sense? I thought the wooden crates were fair game but wasn't sure about the drums. I'd also like to try and make a blanket/tarp or two to put on as well, thoughts?

Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 10:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks, Mauro ! I see now .... just not familiar with that type of arrangement on production vehicles. Must be a lead for a German Notek lamp ...? Still a bit puzzled ....

Mike



Indeed is a strange cable in a odd position. And it looks cut out

The notek supposition is very clever in my opinion.
But to be honest I've seen few T34 with notek mounted on and usually it substituted the original russian light



Perhaps a field modification,...who knows?

Regards


Quoted Text


By the way, I found some stowage I had from a Tamiya Sherman so I thought I'd put it on and see how it looks, none of it is glued. Does it look like it makes sense? I thought the wooden crates were fair game but wasn't sure about the drums. I'd also like to try and make a blanket/tarp or two to put on as well, thoughts?



Jaredt look at the reference pics to verify if russian carried crates and fuel barrels on their tanks in that position..In my humble opinion it wold be quite unlikely...under the load it will be the motor hatch. It would be very hard open it with that weight leaning on
Anyway, as I said you should verify
Thivi11
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 11:04 AM UTC
I checked some photos I had and decided to go with just a single crate on the one side. And a tarp on the other side.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 06:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I checked some photos I had and decided to go with just a single crate on the one side. And a tarp on the other side.





That's a better choice in my opinion

Anyway you can add some other stuff









The most important thing that you do is don't exaggerate and always take the original pics as reference

Cheers



Thivi11
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 - 12:37 AM UTC
And the small items stowed under the straps on the fenders are ice cleats for the tracks correct? So they would just be painted the same as the tracks?
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 - 05:22 AM UTC
Yes. I looked for a picture but unfortunately i haven't found it

Maybe you'll find useful this tread

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/30209&page=1

cheers
Thivi11
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 - 12:14 PM UTC
Thanks.

I'm trying to put together a pre-paint list of how things should look, and since I can't find a picture of a T34/76 in the field, I'm looking for a little help.

I know the tank will be 4bo green and everything will get a coat of that, but what about smaller items? Exhausts will be rusted/splotchy due to paint lost to heat, and then attacked by the elements, I know the tow cable will need to be painted a "grimy silverish" colour, and can find references for that, as well as wooden crates, tracks, wheels. The straps for the fuel tanks are 4bo green correct? Is there a typical base colour Soviet tanks left the factory with that chips will need to show? Or should they just depict a rust colour?
I'm just looking for something to go by so if there's something you know should be painted a specific colour either correct me, or post a picture, thanks!

Also, I'm considering removing a chunk of the front left fender to show some battle wounds. As far as the fuel tanks go, I'd like to chip them quite a bit, maybe even have one or two of them a paler tone of green to imply it might not have originally been on that tank. I even thought of putting a small crack or hole in one and having a stain where whatever fuel was in it would have leaked out. As long as all of this makes sense(and I think it should) then I think I'm good to go as far as paint's concerned.

I also finished both sets of track and have them on the model. I'll post pictures soon. I left them a LITTLE slack but not much. I have seen varying degrees of slack on T34s in different pictures so I just did what I thought looked good at the time. To help get a little more bend out of the tracks I pinched and shoved cut sections of straws in between the track and the fender. The straws try to bend back outwards to their shape and push the track down ensuring a tight fit to the wheels, and slack between wheels where you need it. It worked well.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 - 07:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks.

I'm trying to put together a pre-paint list of how things should look, and since I can't find a picture of a T34/76 in the field, I'm looking for a little help.

I know the tank will be 4bo green and everything will get a coat of that, but what about smaller items? Exhausts will be rusted/splotchy due to paint lost to heat, and then attacked by the elements, I know the tow cable will need to be painted a "grimy silverish" colour, and can find references for that, as well as wooden crates, tracks, wheels. The straps for the fuel tanks are 4bo green correct? Is there a typical base colour Soviet tanks left the factory with that chips will need to show? Or should they just depict a rust colour?
I'm just looking for something to go by so if there's something you know should be painted a specific colour either correct me, or post a picture, thanks!



Hi Jaredt.Go there
http://www.4bogreen.com/colors
Actually 4bo green was.... the base color
Regarding the tow cable (...and ice cleats...) appearance....ther's nothing better than see pictures.






Quoted Text

Also, I'm considering removing a chunk of the front left fender to show some battle wounds. As far as the fuel tanks go, I'd like to chip them quite a bit, maybe even have one or two of them a paler tone of green to imply it might not have originally been on that tank. I even thought of putting a small crack or hole in one and having a stain where whatever fuel was in it would have leaked out. As long as all of this makes sense(and I think it should) then I think I'm good to go as far as paint's concerned.


Well, fenders were made in metal so it could be likely see dents and distortions on them rather than fragment lacks. Actually metal is very elastic. and even a big impact can't break it. See original reference pics and you'll notice.
A hole on a fuel tank, in my opinion, doesn't make sense because it could be unusable so the crew would throw it away. Furthermore just a bullet can make a hole in a fuel tank....so it could be ignited. Otherwise dark stain near the fuel tank cap could be very realistic as well as a different color shade


Quoted Text

I also finished both sets of track and have them on the model. I'll post pictures soon. I left them a LITTLE slack but not much. I have seen varying degrees of slack on T34s in different pictures so I just did what I thought looked good at the time. To help get a little more bend out of the tracks I pinched and shoved cut sections of straws in between the track and the fender. The straws try to bend back outwards to their shape and push the track down ensuring a tight fit to the wheels, and slack between wheels where you need it. It worked well.



So I'm waiting too see your pictures

Cheers
Thivi11
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 12:34 AM UTC
Many thanks as usual!

If 4bo is the base, what colour will chips show/does it matter? Obviously its a dark colour, is a red/brown or any rust colours okay? Should I use a dark grey or something else entirely?

I saw missing fenders on a lot of T34s in pictures. I bent the front right one and may just see how bent I can get the left, maybe do a couple bends down the sides, we'll see.

I want to weather one or two fuel tanks a little more than the other but yes hole in the tank doesn't make much sense so I scrapped that. Pictures in an hour or so!
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 05:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Many thanks as usual!
If 4bo is the base, what colour will chips show/does it matter? Obviously its a dark colour, is a red/brown or any rust colours okay? Should I use a dark grey or something else entirely?







RUST!!
Joking aside, be VERY careful with chipping. An exaggerate chipping or a chipping done with a wrong color must ruin the entire work. If I were you I limited this job in few areas and before I did some trial on a junk model

If 4bo was the only paint, the chipping will be dark, because you'll depict the underneath steel surfaces. Steel surfaces exposed to bad weather oxidize, so it'll be likely a chip with rust and dark stain.
However, look at some other russian model made by skilled modellers to have a good reference



Mig Jimenez Kv2


(note the fenders damages)

Rick Lawler T34/76

Usually a dark brown tint is used to render those effect. You shouldn't use a lot of SILVER or BLACK. A big amount of stain in silver would seem very irrealistic (T34 is a tank, not an aircraft) , black would look too dark

Anyway, as i said before, be careful and "chip" just the parts that could be the more worn (such us near the hatches, on the fender border, on the handles and so on). You should avoid the "Leopard skin" effect. The chip have to make sense. It can't be a "decoration"


Cheers
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 06:36 AM UTC
some links that in my humble opinion might be very useful for you

http://migjimenez.blogspot.com/search/label/stain

http://migjimenez.blogspot.com/search/label/rust

http://missing-lynx.com/rare_world/rw03.htm

http://www.migproductionsforums.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=2ee50f6f87b5a7a9540e9cef89a55ea9


Adam Wilder's KV1

http://automodeler.kitmaker.net//features/1501


The is2 tank made by Steven Zaloga:



http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/russia/is2tamiyasz_1.html
drumthumper
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 09:11 AM UTC
The method I use for chipping is really simple. I use Vallejo Camouflage Brown-Black (a nice deep and dark brown with a hint of red) and I very fine-pointed brush. Chipping is usually way overdone, IMO, so I try to use a lot of restraint when using this method. First, I thin a drop or two of paint with water to an ink-like consistency. Then, using the side of the brush, I randomly apply very small chips of color to the edges of the armor plating. I'm not looking to completely border the armor with chips, but applyng just enough to give the viewers eye a little help defining the edges of the armor plate. When satisfied, I then move to adding a few more serious chips to the fenders, side skirts, areas of greater wear. As a final touch I randomly apply "dots" of color to the larger expanses of armor plate, just a few every square-inch or so to give the viewers eyes something to focus on. Just think ahead and think logically, and you will no doubt have good results.

Kirchoff
Thivi11
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 10:52 AM UTC
I found pictures for paint references and have 5 or 6 "master" photos to work from. This is what I want to work from for most painting:


I cut a hole or two in the engine deck cover mesh, and bent it a little bit too, from stowage bouncing around or just wear and tear.

And I saved a few for scratching, weathering effects, grease spots, etc. etc.

And on the engine deck are spare clutches with gearbox?(read it on another photograph) I also found this picture of the same thing: