login   |    register
Armor/AFV: British Armor
Discuss all types of British Armor of all eras.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Cromwell Armour Challenger 2 TES Conversion.
Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 01:32 AM UTC
This is a 'general' (NOT an in depth) build of Gordon Brown, Cromwell Armour's Challenger 2 TES. 2008/9 conversion kit.

Please do NOT use this thread for any personal gripes you have with him or his company, build comments are very welcome.

This is the Trumpeter kit that will be needed for the basis of the conversion. As you can see it is of a later uparmoured version right out of the box.

However, only the lower portion of the hull, tracks, later wheels, rear end bar/slats and a few other parts will be used along with the turret armour blocks, slats etc..


Here are the contents of the conversion set Challenger 2 TES 2009. from Cromwell Armour (Scotland)..



Some closer shots of the Barracuda camo detail.





And the hand drawn instructions (not for beginners).


2008 or 2009 side Armor option.




Smaller parts with amazing detail.






I have started the cleanup of the parts, this took about an hour and a half last night. The slight warp (bend) seen in the barrel can be corrected by using warm water and gently re shaping. A few pinholes filled but they were in locations that would not be seen after assembly.

More as I progress.


Keef.

Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,285 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 01:37 AM UTC
Looks like a great conversion Keith. Where did you get your conversion at? I've been on a Challenger kick here lately and would like to add that one to my collection. I'll be following this one... "Q"
Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 01:39 AM UTC
Direct from Cromwell Armour mate...

Keith.
9504cheffy
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: November 16, 2010
KitMaker: 129 posts
Armorama: 128 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 06:47 AM UTC
Looks a nice kit mate cant wait to see it built up
Regards Neil
Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 12:55 AM UTC
I do have a Challenger 2 Aluminum barrel from Lion Roar so I may use that after taking a careful comparison to the one supplied.

Keith.
DutchBird
#068
Visit this Community
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: April 09, 2003
KitMaker: 1,144 posts
Armorama: 526 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 07:35 AM UTC
Looks interesting...

Just wondering: What, in your opinion, makes the instructions not suited for beginners?

They look clearer to me than some of those produced by major manufacturers ( DML photographs ).



Harm
retiredyank
#160
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,443 posts
Armorama: 7,739 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 07:43 AM UTC
You want complicated instructions? Try building a Zvezda model.
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,815 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 02:54 PM UTC
Keith,

Very nice to see this conversion being built. I am currently working on a review of this conversion and I concur about the level of detail.
Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 12:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Looks interesting...

Just wondering: What, in your opinion, makes the instructions not suited for beginners?

They look clearer to me than some of those produced by major manufacturers ( DML photographs ).



Harm



First and formost the instructions do not indicate what parts shown in the instructions refer to kit parts and some of them do.
A little more written word would be helpful in sorting the items out.

I am not shy about using resin conversions having done so since Accurate Armour and Cromwell have been in business. I will freely admit, these instructions are a far cry from earlier ones issued by Cromwell but could be better.
Pictures of parts in place would certainly be helpful. Yes I know, I can look online but that doesn't mean they cannot be included.

As for Zvesda I can't comment, they have nothing that interests me (at this point in time).

Keith.
ninjrk
Visit this Community
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 1,255 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 03:02 AM UTC
You know, it's almost worth the money just to get a turret with the openings in tthe turret top filled in with some detail. It's fairly simple scratchbuilding but still kind of a pain in the behind.

Matt
Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 12:52 AM UTC
Cromwell's upper hull mated to Trumpeter lower without any fit issues at all. A minor gap to be filled along the outer sponson seam but this cannot be seen with the tracks and side armor fitted. Front to rear, an excellent match.

Small nibs along the side of the upper hull casting have to be removed and edges filed, very simple job.

As usual, poor fit of the Trumpeter upper rollers and main wheels but that can be sorted with a little glue.

One of the upper outer rollers has to be drilled out for it to fit on the arm?

Seams continue to be an issue with them, especially on the smaller parts. These have to be removed in order to get them to fit and they are unsightly if left.

Cromwell nose armor fitted perfectly, Gordon continues to maintain his quality and high standard of casting.

Photo's later in the week.

Keith.
DutchBird
#068
Visit this Community
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: April 09, 2003
KitMaker: 1,144 posts
Armorama: 526 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 07:40 AM UTC
Thanks for the response...

and I look forward to the pictures.

Cheers,

Harm
r2d2
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: April 13, 2006
KitMaker: 410 posts
Armorama: 405 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 07:44 AM UTC
Nice! I have this conversion on the very first time it came out about a year ago. I could swear that the craftsmanship is very well done. If you are modelling the current chally then this is a must conversion. Looking forward to the WIP pictures Keith!

And oh, Im doing a full scratchbuild 1/72 scale of the Chally TES 2008 base on my own Cromwells conversion. Mine is fully scratchbuilt with all the correction in braille. You could see my in progress in the braille section. I will do my 35th conversion once time permits me.

Regrards,

Val
csmanning
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2008
KitMaker: 333 posts
Armorama: 321 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 12:55 PM UTC
Hey Keith

Look forward to the build! I have this conversion as well and will be book marking your build for future reference.

BTW - How will you be handling the track issue?? I've been told that the latest tracks on the Challenger 2 are a bit different. I wish I could find the discussion from Missing Lynx about it, as it had photos to describe the differences. I think it was a small extension over the track end connectors. I'll keep looking, but if anyone else knows what I mean could you kindly post a link? Thanks!

Later!
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,815 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 02:22 PM UTC
I am pretty sure you can see the end connector extensions here.....

http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/david_hale/challenger2_walk_1.htm

Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 12:54 AM UTC
That is an interesting question and one I will handle later, however I am a model builder for fun just like everybody here.

The difference may be that I am NOT a purist and by that I mean NO DISRESPECT to the membership of this site or any other. I am not too concerned by items such as the size and length of track end connectors or incorrect number of bolts on suspension parts.

Certainly I am apt to correct missing items and will see which tracks (Tamiya, Trumpeter or even Fruil) have for the best representation. It is entirely possible that earlier track connectors could be found on some vehicles and only replaced as track maintenance and replacement took place.

The more obvious items that need correcting such as the rear seat on the Wolf Land Rover, the incorrect location of the Merkava suspension are a must and these should have been done by the manufacturer. I find those things more important as they are instantly noticable.

In this (TES) conversions case the individual builder will have to decide on the importance value if he/she intends to place it in a competion or satisfy his personal inner convictions.

This item of mine will most likely end up on a small dio base with a couple of figures.

I rarely enter anything in competitions and have a severe dislike of judges that pull out magnifying lenses, flashlights, measuring devises, dental mirrors and judge color from books and magazines and not personal experience!
I build for myself.

Sharing what I build is fun and I do enjoy the input that it generates and if I am able to help others overcome any of the problems I encounter then I am well satisfied.

Keith.
Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 01:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Nice! I have this conversion on the very first time it came out about a year ago. I could swear that the craftsmanship is very well done. If you are modelling the current chally then this is a must conversion. Looking forward to the WIP pictures Keith!

And oh, Im doing a full scratchbuild 1/72 scale of the Chally TES 2008 base on my own Cromwells conversion. Mine is fully scratchbuilt with all the correction in braille. You could see my in progress in the braille section. I will do my 35th conversion once time permits me.

Regrards,

Val



Trust me mate I am watching with great interest and envy.

Keith
Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 01:04 PM UTC
Front end with Cromwell nose armor.






Side view.


And rear, notice the perfect fit with the Cromwell upper hull.




Cromwell engine and transmission deck.
More as I progress this weekend.

Keith.
Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 02:24 AM UTC
Suspension and wheels in place. Idler wheels are a little thin and need many seams removing, I may replace them with a Tamiya set? A simple way of ensuring the arms are parralel is to add the arms in each corner first then then when level add the remainder..... I removed the nose armor (only placed on) while working on the hull.



Trumpeter really needs to step up their game when it comes to seams and injector pin marks.
The wheels have to be roughed up slightly as the edges of the rubber rim are so sharp it is totaly unrealistic. Besides, normal wear and tear on the real item will do the same.



I have decided to use the Lion Roar barrel as it has a great rendition of the cover over the 'forged muzzle upstand' (reflective mirror),well detailed thermal sleeve and a nice sag in the recoil bellows.



The Tamiya tracks seem to have nicer detail when it comes to end connectors and as much of the tracks will be under and behind the armor my choice is yet to be determined.

More to be done today.

Keith.
bigmal
Visit this Community
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: February 21, 2011
KitMaker: 211 posts
Armorama: 176 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 06:31 AM UTC
Good work mate, i would like to do this conversion some day, but out of my wallet range at the moment
Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 07:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Good work mate, i would like to do this conversion some day, but out of my wallet range at the moment



Stick your loose change in a jar, you might be surprised how quickly it grows to the converion amount.

Keith.
retiredyank
#160
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,443 posts
Armorama: 7,739 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 07:42 AM UTC
Almost looks like a shake and bake kit. Although, I've never had too many issues with Trumpeter. Waiting to see more.
Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 11:23 AM UTC
Firstly a mistake acknowledgement (senior moment) on my part...
The barrel is actually made by 'Armour Workshop', (my apologies) and NOT Lion Roar as I indicated earlier.

Now, back to the build.
Mantlet mated to the Trumpeter elevation hinge, loaders station insert and commanders cupola periscope ring in place.
Nose armor block attached.


Gordon Brown gets the detail just about perfect, the bolts and locking arms amazingly detailed.


See what I mean.


The front sensor/ jamming pod suspension arms in place and again the power cords and bolt head detail supurb.
Cromwell or rather Gordon has also provided armor covers for them as an option. However most photographs show them as rarely being used, probably kept for combat missions.


The belly armor is in place and this covers to just behind the drivers station. Not certain if this is correct or if it actually extends the full length of the hull.
We do know that a driver was lost due to an IED and so the short under armor may be the fix...

More tomorrow if I get time to do a bit more.

Keith.

r2d2
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: April 13, 2006
KitMaker: 410 posts
Armorama: 405 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 09:01 PM UTC
Keith, your build looks sharp. Very good WIP's man! If you are modelling the 09' which uses the thicker armour from RAFAEL, it uses the cover for the arm support for the IED side jammers. The 08' which still uses the D2F side armous, most pictures I have don't have the cover.
Keef1648
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,238 posts
Armorama: 1,190 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 01:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Keith, your build looks sharp. Very good WIP's man! If you are modelling the 09' which uses the thicker armour from RAFAEL, it uses the cover for the arm support for the IED side jammers. The 08' which still uses the D2F side armous, most pictures I have don't have the cover.



I appreciate very much your input on that item.
I will leave them off as I would like the detail to be shown. And yes, I am going to use the RAFAEL (thicker) side armor blocks.
No doubt a few vehicles could be seen with the armor added before the arms were modified for covers. (Importance factor).


Keith.