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Armor/AFV: Softskins
Softskins group discussions.
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Humber 8cwt FWD 4x4 Light Ambulance
AlanL
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Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 09:51 PM UTC
Hi folks,

Through I'd take myself down a slightly different vein and add some RAMC type vehicles to my collection. Accurate Armour are probably the only producer who offer British/Commonwealth medical type vehicles I can think of. This is a fairly recent purchase for me although I've had the Austin KY2 on the to do list for several years now.

I always find full resin kits a bit daunting at first, but they look so good how can one resist.

With the Tilly being available from both Accurate Armour and Tamiya and the recent new White Scout Car, plus Resicasts wounded soldier's and forthcoming medical supplies set, options here are widening out quite a bit. We are still lacking any specific medical type personnel but pending arrival of same not a problem that can't be over come.

I did a review of the kit here on site

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=5778

The Resicast Wounded Soldiers I reviewed here some time ago

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=3729

and the other figure is one from Graham's open day in 2010.





I'd like to see a lot more wouded and medical type personnel available but only time will tell on that score.

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 04:02 AM UTC
Hi folks,

Well things are underway. The first part to fit is part 23 the front spring. I've started on the fromt suspension just test fitting it at the moment. Care is neeeded when rorking with these parts are they are quite delicate.

I also fitted the fron drive shaft and the rear drive shaft axel and suspension. Fit the rear suspension first and let it dry. You can use the axel to make sure the spacing is correct. then fit the rear drive shaft and the axel.











When you're cutting off the rear suspension units, look at both sides of the part and you will see where to cut otherwise you might cut off more than you want from the rear joint on the suspension.

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 09:20 PM UTC
Hi folks,

There is a walkabout for this one on site already:

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=3234

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 11:30 PM UTC
Hi folks,

A bit more work this morning. Added various parts to the engine, my part 30 had lost the end piece so some work there. Fitted the PE grill to the radiator this needs moulded to the shape. Finished the front suspension and fixed my exhaust . Applied a bit of paint. The fan belt is shown as one part in the kit but my pics show two belts, bit late now thought . Cut out the gear box, this has an angles edge that fits up against the firewall. I seem to have lost one of the part 58's whaich are the wheel hubs, don't know where that got to.

Anyway, progress so far.











panzerserra
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Posted: Friday, May 27, 2011 - 03:04 AM UTC
What a pretty !!!

Following this girl !!!

Keep moving, Alan !!!

cheers

AlanL
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Posted: Friday, May 27, 2011 - 09:14 AM UTC
Hi Marcus,

It's a grand kit, tricky you need 4 hands and easy to miss cut, but I just love the shape of these vehicles. The hard part as always will be the windows as the screen fame is a bit warped but the roof should pull it into shape once I get that far.

Got a good bit done today, but too late for pics now.

Cheers

Al
vonHengest
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Posted: Friday, May 27, 2011 - 06:57 PM UTC
I love AA kits, I don't think they've produced something that I haven't liked.

The detail on this kit looks real nice. I love being able to see components such as the pre-sprung semi elliptical horizontally traversed leaf spring running across the front of the engine bay. It gives you real feel for the vehicle when you see all of the suspension together like that. It looks like that PE for the radiator grille could be problematic if you're not careful
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, May 27, 2011 - 09:32 PM UTC
Hi Jeremy,

Yes, Derek does great stuff. You neeed to do a bit of instruction hopping though .

A couple of things to watch out for. when fitting the radiator you need to used the bonnet and cab front to aling things correctly. Also when removing the radiator from the spur again you need to be careful as at the botton are two quite delicate ends. I got the radiator off the spur successfully and then snapped of a small end when I was aligning things up lol, lol.

The cab, radiator and bonnet were awkward to get right. I opted to open the sides of the bonnet by cutting off and reversing the sides. The open sides would have been a nice option to include in the kit, as the engine is quite detailed although you could just leave the bonnet off.

Care also need to be taken when removing the mudguards. The fixing bars are attached to the mudguard and spur, so don't cut the wrong thing! This makes for easy fitting of said mudguards but you could easily snap these off if you don't realise what they are or tend to be a bit heavy handed like me.

The fear of working with resin is making the wrong cut which can be easily done sometimes. Still so far nothing major that couldn't be fixed.

Latest progress, this is most certainly a paint as you go kit.















Cheers

Al

AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 05:03 AM UTC
Work continues.

A bit mroe work on the cab.





Started the sick bed.





Adding some seating and the stretcher rails,and some paint on the interior.









Al



panzerbob01
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Posted: Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 06:09 AM UTC
Alan;

Hi!

Really COOL! Although not actually inclined to build any such (resin kits) (when Humber comes out in easier-to-me styrene...!), I am always really thrilled to see these sorts of soft vehicles come out, and I think your build is awesome.

I DO, however, have a "carp" to share!:

Those front wheels are way too cambered (wheel-tops out). As I see it, from the kit box-art, and from Googling around for the Humber 8cwt in its various guises, it looks like those fronts should be sitting (standing?) pretty near straight up and down.

The Humber is very similar front suspension-wise to the German Horch types which also had "A-frame" stub-axle independent front suspension- the wheel assembly moves vertically under loading and NOT on a sharp, distinct arc. This sort of "A-frame" front suspension is also seen in modern 4x4 light trucks. The point being that, when set up correctly, the front wheels stand and travel close to up-right.

When I saw your build pics, I immediately thought of my very very different Pinzgauer truck! The Pinz is a 1.1 ton - rated tactical 4x4 with 4-wheel independent suspension... which is a very different from Humber's. When you see an empty Pinz, it does exhibit very positive camber (much as you show) - but on the Pinz, this camber is correct (for empty trucks)... being as the Pinz has a swinging stub-axle where the wheels do travel thru an arc under loading. When Pinz is empty, it does have lots of camber and that "fun" ability to "tuck" a front wheel when turning at speed. Folks learn to carry substantial loads at all times to really get that fab 4x4 performance the Pinz is rightly noted for - adding weight gets those wheels (all 4) tucked up a bit so that they ride essentially vertical in the wells = no tucking!

Just a thought! Your truck looks way cool, but it's not like a Pinz, and the front camber is disturbing!

Cheers!

Bob
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 07:34 AM UTC
Hi Bob,

Thanks for looking in and the thoughts. At the momet the wheels are not fixed propely to the truck, but I take your point. However, I believe they will be pretty upright when attached.

I was hoping IBG would be bring out some British Trucks in plastic but no sign so far. I've got the WESPE GS version to build at some point too, - more trucks as they say.

OK last of the updates for today.



still to do



Cheers

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 08:09 PM UTC
Morning folks,

Here is the back with the slide rails fitted. I used some brass as the seperators. The kit provides spacers but these are quite delicate and being somewhat heavy handed I replaced these with something stronger. If you want to show the stretchers fully in the vehicle then ihe instructions recommend you cut of the top carrying handles so they fit snug. I drilled out the locating holes for fun.

There are a couple of issues to think about. One the warp in the window screen resulting in it sitting way to far back. I'm not sure whether to force it into place when I add the roof, try some heat treatment to nudge it forward or carefully cut the whole screen off and reposition it? Have to think on that.

Bob also raised the issue of the cambered front wheels, so a slight adjustment may be required there. Any other thoughts on that one?

Anyway some updates.









Al
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, May 29, 2011 - 01:46 AM UTC
Hi folks,

OK to fix the window screen warp, I used a steel ruler behind it and heated it with a hair dryer, moving it forward 2/3mm to fit the groove in the roof. I made sure to clean out the grove and that seems to have sorted that issue. I'll need to use a tiny amount of filler just to give a smooth finish to the roof join, but well on the way to haveing the makings of a another interesting truck.

Al





AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, May 29, 2011 - 09:45 PM UTC
Hi folks,

Last nights progress. Wheels are on as are the mudguards. Started the weathering underneath.

Next the decal;s and final pieces of PE.

Al









AlanL
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Posted: Monday, May 30, 2011 - 12:17 AM UTC
Hi folks,

Bit more work, Started to add the decals, some more bling on the front and getting to the fun part of painting it up. Still to add some small items, the step for the rear has unfortunately a broken arm. The spare seeting cushion need finished and stowed in the rear under the slide rails and I'll need to add a few personal items to the drivers cab.

The kit provides PE window screen frames that can be fitted open or closed. Those will probably be the last ting I fit and should be fun. Not great with PE or windows at the best of times but I've seen them on other vehicles and they do look cool.

Al










AlanL
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Posted: Monday, May 30, 2011 - 05:15 AM UTC
A bit more work on the troops.

Al



AlanL
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Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 05:43 AM UTC
Hi folks,

A bit more work on the wounded troops. Also some light weathering on the vehicle and starting to atempt to construct and fit the open screen!





Al
panzerbob01
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Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 07:15 AM UTC
AlanL;

Hey! That meat-wagon is looking pretty nice!

And those front wheels now look pretty convincing and "right", at least IMO! As I raised a carp about them; THANKS! - it's much easier on my eyes! (LoL)

It's a very different and interesting-looking subject and build. The opened windshields will make it POP - bet you are having just about as much fun getting them together as I did on a recent Horch build. But after all the gnashing and cussing, I found it super pleasing (pause - while I subject myself to a self-congratulatory back-patting episode), and I am sure yours will zing!

Can't wait to see this all come together!

Bob
AlanL
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Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 07:25 AM UTC
Hi Bob,

Thanks, one open one closed, only dislodged it once so far but the levers are tricky to get to hold, Mirrors, indicator, some back fitting and the back doors and it will be about done, Then a few medical type items and a hunt for a medic.

Cheers

Al
vonHengest
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Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 08:03 AM UTC
Alan this truck should have a slightly pronounced positive camber. I can't tell from your photos, but make sure that the wheels aren't perfectly vertical.
AlanL
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Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 09:06 AM UTC
Hi Jeremy,

Obviously a difference of opinion here?

Al
panzerbob01
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Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 09:54 AM UTC
@Jer & Alan;

I'll still recommend essentially "zero camber" on those fronts!

What would be most informative about the correct camber would be for someone to find the "operator's manual" or maintenance manual or other manufacturer's specs - I alas don't have any of these! All the pics I can find of this chassis seem to show those fronts to be pretty much straight-up - please see the attached borrowed for FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY from miliblog.co.uk showing a fully-restored utility truck version of the Humber 8-cwt fwd chassis.

I am sure that camber could be modestly adjusted on these things - as it is on most (but by no means all) similar suspensions. And I am also sure that some specimens WERE more or less cambered! The Humber has an A-frame - the wheel travels vertically with little or no change in wheel camber (just like most modern 4x4 pick-ups and the like with independent front suspension) - and NOT like the floating swing-axle of a Pinzgauer truck, where all 4 (or 6, for some versions) wheels travel in an arc with changing camber.

Vehicles with straight side-wall, non-radial tires, such as seen in the Humber photo, pretty much NEED to have zero camber, as a tilted tire of this type can get mighty risky on hard surfaces! The Humber was essentially a civilian road-type vehicle and probably conformed to then - current civilian design practices for utility trucks - as versus purpose-designed cross-country & tactical vehicles (like the Pinz). As I discovered when I bought one, mil-issued Pinz trucks came world-wide with Maloya hard-compound straight-wall truck tires, and are noted for being more risky when completely un-loaded, owing to their positive camber! I can testify to this, and to the fact that such vehicles drive a whole lot better when carrying some weight...

It's also informative to look at the tire-wear... a non-zero camber will produce uneven tire-wear (I can point to my Pinz and to my old VW for this... ) as well as reduce tire-contact with the ground.

Still... I'm just offering my opine, based on what I can find! @Alan; I think it'll look GOOD however you build it (I just won't want to go for a drive in it if you have it all cambered-up! )



PS: Alan, thinking of those windows of your's and how neat they'll be when installed... I thought I'd share a pic of my Horch project (when WIP) with scratch styrene windshield. The open wind-screen look is just the coolest, IMO! Too bad we don't have them on more cars today. Let the cool wind in!



Cheers!

Bob
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, June 03, 2011 - 04:39 AM UTC
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the thoughts, I'll leave as is for now, that one looks pretty vertical.

Cool looking Horch.

Cheers

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, June 03, 2011 - 08:25 AM UTC
Hi folks,

Well I think the build is about finished. I need to choose and Infantry Division to associate it to but I haven't decided which one yet, so I'll pause at this point.



I'll get a few decent pics in the morning when the light is better.

If these were in plastic I'd have a few that's for sure.

Thanks for the contributions guys, appreciated.

Al
vonHengest
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Posted: Friday, June 03, 2011 - 04:16 PM UTC
Bob, you are correct in recommending essentially zero camber. Trucks like this that were intended for relatively heavy loads were set up with an incredibly wicked positive camber to ensure that the camber approached a near zero state under a full load. This helped to ensure that the truck remained properly steerable and did not wear out the components prematurely under normal use. Once under load, the geometry would be set close to it's limit for upward vertical traverse and would allow the suspension to travel essentially vertical with minimal affect on the camber. One of the easiest ways to set up a vehicle this way was to use an transverse mounted leaf spring with independent lower suspension arms. This would also work with a solid beam axle if it was set up properly. The load rating could be changed by adding or removing leaves from the leaf spring assembly. These types of setups could be used regardless of frame type.

The picture of the Humber that you posted shows the slight positive camber that I was pointing out, which should be the norm.

Alan, I think that you achieved this to scale quite beautifully with your build based on your last photo. It should be barely noticeable in this scale.