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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
1/35 Dora
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
KitMaker: 96 posts
Armorama: 93 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 11:00 PM UTC
Ryan, I'm as confused as you are! I've found several builds that list the barrel as correct length and several that say it's to long. I'm trying to get a copy of Gerhard Taube's book Deutsche Eisenbahn Geschutze (which is in German only, so I'll need to get parts transulated) and maybe I can find out for myself.
Some builds say listed measurments for the barrel are for the barrel and breech block combined which make the barrel in the kit to long. When removing the breech block from the unit the kit barrel seems ok. I'm not convinvced yet and want to see a copy or picture from a reference book that gives a specific length measurement "stated" for barrel only or for barrel and breech combined. Until then I'm not sure about hacking up a $700.00 barrel. Thant's just my humble opinion.

And Tim, I'll get you that information today, the screen is actual expanded metal (aluminum) and looks great.

Dave
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
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Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 - 02:15 PM UTC
Tim, the wire is from K & S Engineering. I got it from the local hobby shop, it's 0.047" & 0.036" - $0.95 ea. The mesh is from Amaco, it's called contour mesh, is 1/16" hole size aluminum. I got it from Blick Art (on line)- $18.00 for 3 sheets - 16" x 20".

Ryan, I've spent the day trying to get the actual measurments on the barrel. As far as I can tell you are right. Every "on line" reference for the Dora says the barrel length was 32.5 meters which 1/35th scale should be 92.8 cm which is the length of the kit barrel. I've been trying to find a copy of the blue print for the barrel or a copy of the book by Taube I can look at but so far - no luck ... I'm still not sure what to do. I have the barrel marked for cutting but like I'd mentioned this morning - I'm not sure about hacking up a barrel from a kit this expensive. Dave
django70
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New York, United States
Joined: January 26, 2012
KitMaker: 23 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 - 02:28 PM UTC
Dave ---

Just like going to the doctor, I would get a second opinion. Maybe a 3rd and 4th as well. When a kit costs as much as a plane ticket across the world, I would definitely find another project to work on till I knew for sure that any major surgery was correct. Just a thought..

Good Luck! -- Lee
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
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Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 02:48 PM UTC
Thanks Lee, thats my thoughts to. I was able to get the cars done today, I think. I removed the part on the front car that isn't supposed to be there and scratch built the missing boxes on that are missing for them. Moved the barke? supports and wheels where they should be and put door handles and lifting rings on the supplied boxes.






Primer tomorrow and back to the Leopold for a bit.
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
KitMaker: 96 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 30, 2012 - 06:17 PM UTC
Just a curisoty --- but has anyone heard of this kit,

AOSHIMA 1/35 GERMAN DORA RAILWAY GUN MODEL

Dave
elmarriachi
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Baden-Württemberg, Germany
Joined: December 26, 2009
KitMaker: 813 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 30, 2012 - 11:37 PM UTC
Hi @ all.

@ Dave: This kit is the only one available from Dora in 1/35 - there is no other kit.

@ All: The barrel is much too long - you could find that also in the book of "Taube" - The plans of shorten the barrel as Luis did on his picture is nearly 100% correct. You have to cut out several parts of the barrel to get the correct length!

BR
Michael
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
KitMaker: 96 posts
Armorama: 93 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 - 02:02 PM UTC
Thanks Michael. I read something about the Aoshima kit being available (backordered now) from Scalehobbiest for about $1,300.00 but no where else, no reviews nothing. So I was just curious if anyone had seen it.

As far as the barrel is concerned I was afriad it was to long. I wonder why WWII archives and WWII datebase have the barrel listed as 32.5 meters long, unless they are counting the breech also. Then it would make sense. Have you shortened your barrel yet? It doesnt look to difficult but I'm afraid that aligning it after shortening will be difficult.

I'm trying to locate the book by Taube through a library loan. It's just to expensive concidering I'll use it for a week, take some notes and never look at it again.

Thank you again Michael.
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
KitMaker: 96 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 12:46 AM UTC
Thanks all for the helpful tips!!

-- That being said I need one more, for now or until I can get a book. Which catwalks (walkways) should be replaced with expanded metal or grateing. I'm not sure and the pictures I can find are so obscure that they all look like deck plate not grateing. Pleas, which parts (number?) did you replace with grating and which did you leave as plate.

Thank you Dave

I redid the boxes and railing on the wagons ( shoulda read ahead)

also resized the box on the trunion frames as well as added the bolt pattern circle



and put some antiskid on the steps
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
KitMaker: 96 posts
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Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 - 06:43 AM UTC
I was able to get the side frames together and some of the scratch building done. The original has flanged steel on the lower frames and what looks to be oilers or hydraulic lines which were omitted on the kit, so that's what Evergreen is for.



This thing is going to be rather large. The boxed kit is a 1/24 Ford custom. The barrel (not modified yet) is laying on the table in front of the kit.
Firecaptain
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Virginia, United States
Joined: November 03, 2006
KitMaker: 165 posts
Armorama: 118 posts
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 - 07:37 AM UTC
FWIW.....the Aoshima is a re-boxed Soar Art / Metal Troops kit



I'm sure you're familiar with these other previous builds....


http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=102439&ord=1&page=1

http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=102439&ord=&page=1

http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5521
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
KitMaker: 96 posts
Armorama: 93 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 03:31 PM UTC
A little update on the Dora. I made up a few of the catwalks that are going to be replaced. The expanded metal looks pretty good. It's about the same scale as the HO scale deckplate I picked up for a couple of the platforms that need to be built.



I've spent some time on the breech and loading block. Some parts needed to be replaced and some needed to be added.





Now it's either on to finishing up the catwalks or get the nerve to cut up the barrel, I still am undecided. I think getting it back together "STRAIGHT" after chopping it into about eight pieces wont be easy!

And Carl, thanks for the heads up on the painting (Michaels thread). I'll do it in sections and epoxy it together later.
mic113
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Morbihan, France
Joined: February 04, 2012
KitMaker: 88 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 08:20 PM UTC
Hello
Have been following your built for a while ( but never posting due to the excellent work you are doing let me like my cat in front of a milk bottle WOOOOOOOOOuuuuuh)
Congrats for your dedication on details!!
Concerning the barrel I read somewhere that even the kit manufacturer have been understanding that they did amistake in trying to follow dimensions ......This can be one reason not to be affraid to cut yours ( BTW I unterstand totally your thoughts before to do such a big improvment)
There is someone having built a 1/6 scale Dora expalining he was using some US drawings done using spares to measures and draw these blueprints ... can you get some copies of that and try to check ?
Another solution is to find avery nice pic side of the whole stuff then redoing a drawing thru this pic and finally remeasure the barrel exactly with a scale done in measuring one of you kit part ( some big one)
I did that when building my 2/5 drivable AMX 40 ( see my album)
http://gallery.kitmaker.net/showphoto.php/photo/371344/ppuser/49177
And it works perfectly ( I had the opportunity to check with real deal at Saumur Museum and dimensions where ok)

As am a former retired CAD ingineer ( racing cars)and fan of Dora built I will be very pleased to help you in this particular examination just for fun ( and to help you to do the right thing fro the barrel in your hudge and marvellous project)
It's up to you ... just ask !
Keep on your very interesting work

PS ; Am in process to conclude may be a purchase ( from the net) for a second hand brandnew Dora soart art kit this week
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
KitMaker: 96 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 - 05:39 AM UTC
OK -- I've been studying the pictures that are available and I'd have to agree that the barrel is to long. I recieved a set of prints to have one made out of aluminum but living where I do I'm limited to only one machine shop and at "APPROXIMATLY" $500.00 I think I'll pass on the aluminum barrel. Using Luis's measurements (thank you Luis) I've marked the barrel and will start cutting. My question to "any and all" who have shortened the barrel, just how did your do it. How did you cut it, jig it for reassembly. Glue it and or reinforce it so it won't crack in a few years down the line. And especially how do you keep it straight. Please give me some helpful suggestions, and please post some in progress pictures and completed pictures.

Thank you for your help Dave
TankCarl
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Rhode Island, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 - 03:20 PM UTC
Dave, when I start to cut mine, I will mark around the barrel for each cut. I think If you slowly scribe with an exacto to get started, that is half the battle.Then, If you have one of those modelers small mitre boxes, you can support the tapered side, and get a square cut.
Once the offending bit is removed,put some 20 thou or so thick sheet styrene inside the joint. Have some sticking up about an inch or so.then slide the rest of the barrel over it. Once glued, it should be reasonably strong. Then, it is merely a matter off filling and sanding the joint
mic113
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Morbihan, France
Joined: February 04, 2012
KitMaker: 88 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 - 01:23 AM UTC
Another solution could be ; once a good drawing at scale have been done is to go to some 3D copier shop and have it done in epoxy or polyurethane resin as you can draw the inside very thin ( eventally with rinforces not to bend ) so total load on the breach will be similar than the original kit one ( at contrary with any alu one -even very well drilled to save grammes)
Surprisingly cost price of 3D parts is not so crazy ( I used this tecnic for some model parts and was happy with)
Bonding to original breech will be easier and safer

Another "trick "also is for that purpose of bonding safely for ever all your segments is to use structural bonding from AXSON named Hr 59 Part A and B ; this brandt of stuff bond extremely hardly this type of material once properly grinded and leave in any hollow or bad cut enought material to be sanded to final aspect and as it is black and same superfical hardness than Sort art material , primer will cover perfectly all cuts;
And it is not affected by shocks ( like cyanocrilat) or change of humidity ratio

Hope this helps
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
KitMaker: 96 posts
Armorama: 93 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 - 02:40 PM UTC
Thanks for the tips mic113 and Carl. I've got some ideas about making a holding jig for marking and reassembly. But I'm off to Florida tomorrow for a week so It'll have to wait.

I was able to finish the outside catwalks using the mesh. I think there are still a few that need replacing around the elevators and power house (I could use some direction here Michael. Are they mesh or solid?). I'm dryfitting some of the bigger pieces and figuring out ladders and such now.








It will be a monster when finished!!
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
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KitMaker: 96 posts
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 02:33 AM UTC
The parts never stop comming.


I set a couple of handrails in place and I think they look just fine. Not perfect but just fine. I will redo the rail on the top of the breach attachment part.


With that underway I decided to cut the barrel. I'm as far as Michael but am wondering how the heck I'll get it back together "straight". There's eight pieces and no line up pins??



I'll put some time into it today and see how it goes. I'm still trying to figure out a way to put the thing completly together for building catwalks around the loading platform but still be able to take it apart for painting?? The four screws that hold the rear gantry and loading platform are screwed down "before" the top plates glued on that the loading and trolly mechinism attach to. Well thats modeling I guess!
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 03:36 PM UTC
It wasn't to hard to do. Patience!!







And it looks a lot better when done.

Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
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Posted: Monday, February 27, 2012 - 05:09 AM UTC
I wish they had made th kit so the top platforms S15 and S16 could de fixed before step 23 that way any detail for loading runners, seams, lifting cranes, elevastors and the like could be addressed and painted before final assembly but they wern't -- so being a modeler I modified






The screws are acessible through the tubes and I'll make manhole type covers out of some scale dimond plate I have.
Now I can basically assemble, paint and detail steps 24 through most of 30 and connect it to the side frames at the end, epoxy the covers on and detail them by hand. Or so I hope.
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
KitMaker: 96 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 - 03:15 PM UTC
made a few more modifications



original

modified



toe kicks


had a good day today - no phone calls or anything. Hope tomorrow is as nice, if so I may just finish it for the spring show.
Rouse713
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: February 03, 2009
KitMaker: 367 posts
Armorama: 326 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 06:17 AM UTC
Hey Dave,

Nice progress. It looks like all of the major fits have been completed. Now the smaller details are left (which with this kit the "smaller details" are still the size of a regular 1:35 kit).

I have a few questions:
1)How are all of the joints holding up? Have you had to reinforce anything?

2) How are you going to paint this?

3) Figures or no figures. I would imaging this would require a ton of guys for a dio?


Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
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Armorama: 93 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 04:21 PM UTC
Hey Mark,

The joints seem to be holding up fine. I only reinforced the two center cuts of the barrel, nothing else. I used methylene chloride which is ProWeld liquid cement.

I'll prime it using a very diluted polyester automotive primer as well as PPG automotive basecoat custom mixed to match a german gray. Then highlight the sharp edges darker grey by mixing a bit of black to the original. after decals and washing I'll shoot a coat or two with a flat urathane. I'll use a DeVilbiss automotive touchup gravity feed spray gun. The thing is so darn big an airbrush isn't practical and I don't like rattle cans.

I'll put a couple of "unfinished" figures on it for scale when I take it to the spring show (hopefully) but would like to put a couple dozen figures on it once I learn how to paint them. I thought about doing a diorama of the beast but I probably won't. It's just to big to be practical, unless I buy a museum and besides I have the Leopold to finish, a BR52 and Karl in the wings and even a modern M1070 to do as dios.

I hope this helps. Dave
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 12:39 PM UTC
Well after a quick trip to see our granddaughter and help out the son with a welding project it's back to the Dora. I'd "almost" forgotten how much fun welding was. I think there are only two more catwalks and two platforms to replace with grateing and Ill have those done.


And I think I'd mentioned that I wasn't going to replace the handrails but --- They will look a lot better I think. Besides I put the two long top railings someplace so they wouldn't get bent or broked and, well I'll find them about the time I get it painted!


Depending on how they look along side the kit railings on the breach I may end up taking them off and replacing them also.
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 - 06:44 AM UTC
most of the handrails are on




there are still a couple but I have to temporarily set the elevators in place first. I'm glad I replaced the originals - Thanks Luis!
The elevator pulleys needed some detail.

two cables instead of one
Dave621955
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 13, 2009
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Posted: Saturday, March 17, 2012 - 03:26 AM UTC
I got a couple more platforms done.



And made up some new elevator gantry mounting points. The ones with the kit just didn't look right.