Nathan, Steph, Mike, Anthony: welcome a board!
Phil, I'll also have to check if there were Fireflies landed before June 9th. I'm eager to say yes, but Im not really sure. Your best bet would be 7th AD or 27th, 8th AB or 2nd Canadian AB..
Im sure you'll be able to find a picture. ;-)
Dave
Campaigns
Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
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D-Day armor
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 07:04 PM UTC
WARDUKWNZ
Joined: June 01, 2011
KitMaker: 1,716 posts
Armorama: 1,638 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 07:39 PM UTC
Dave ,, just did a little bit of hunting and this is what i found ...
After the problem of getting the gun to fit in the Sherman's turret was solved, the Firefly was put into production in early 1944, in time to equip Field Marshal Montgomery's forces for the Normandy landings. It soon became highly valued as the only British tank capable of defeating the Panther and Tiger tanks it faced in Normandy at standard combat ranges. In recognition of this, German tank and anti-tank gun crews were instructed to attack Fireflies first. Between 2100 and 2200 were manufactured before production wound down in 1945.
So i would say thats a yup
Phill
After the problem of getting the gun to fit in the Sherman's turret was solved, the Firefly was put into production in early 1944, in time to equip Field Marshal Montgomery's forces for the Normandy landings. It soon became highly valued as the only British tank capable of defeating the Panther and Tiger tanks it faced in Normandy at standard combat ranges. In recognition of this, German tank and anti-tank gun crews were instructed to attack Fireflies first. Between 2100 and 2200 were manufactured before production wound down in 1945.
So i would say thats a yup
Phill
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 07:56 PM UTC
Hey Phil,
There were more then enough fireflies in Normandy, the question is, did one land before June 9th. ;-)
I think so, I think the 27th and 8th TB had some on land by June 9th....
Let's try to find a picture. :-) I'll help you out.
Dave
There were more then enough fireflies in Normandy, the question is, did one land before June 9th. ;-)
I think so, I think the 27th and 8th TB had some on land by June 9th....
Let's try to find a picture. :-) I'll help you out.
Dave
Quoted Text
Dave ,, just did a little bit of hunting and this is what i found ...
After the problem of getting the gun to fit in the Sherman's turret was solved, the Firefly was put into production in early 1944, in time to equip Field Marshal Montgomery's forces for the Normandy landings. It soon became highly valued as the only British tank capable of defeating the Panther and Tiger tanks it faced in Normandy at standard combat ranges. In recognition of this, German tank and anti-tank gun crews were instructed to attack Fireflies first. Between 2100 and 2200 were manufactured before production wound down in 1945.
So i would say thats a yup
Phill
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 08:06 PM UTC
Phil,
It's a YES! So you're in?
More info can be found here http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=14904
It's a YES! So you're in?
Quoted Text
PaulJ wrote:
Off the top of my head the ratio I recall is one per troop, which would be (he said thinking out loud):
4 tps per sqn = 4
4 sqns per regt = 16
2 regts per bde = 32
I think I have some old staff tables with the actual data.
Wait out.
The actual numbers per unit on 6 June as recorded by 21 Army Group were:
2 CAB - 22
4 AB - 34 (as of 11 June)
8 AB - 22
27 AB - 29
33 AB - 36 (as of 16 June)
7 AD - 36
11 AD - 36 (as of 18 June)
1 PAD - 25 (as of 22 June)
The desired scale was 12 per regiment, with four per squadron (3 squadrons per regiment). Depending on the regiment the four were allcoated in different ways, sometimes one per troop (officially five troops, with one shortchanged, although some regiments had changed to a four-troop organization) or sometimes all were held as a squadron HQ troop. For example:
10th Canadian Armoured Regiment (Fort Gary Horse)
RHQ and HQ Squadron – three Stuart tanks, one ARV, two scout cars, and one Valentine bridgelayer (attached from 2nd Canadian Armoured Brigade)
A Squadron – SHQ and five troops each of two Sherman and one Sherman Vc
B & C Squadrons – each SHQ and five troops of three Sherman-DD each, plus two ‘spare’
More info can be found here http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=14904
WARDUKWNZ
Joined: June 01, 2011
KitMaker: 1,716 posts
Armorama: 1,638 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 08:10 PM UTC
Dave ,,got more for you ..
ne example of this increased firepower was displayed by Lt. G. K. Henry's Firefly during the defense of Norrey-en-Bessin on 9 June against an attack by the 3rd Company of the 12th SS Panzer Regiment of the 12th SS Panzer Division. Determined to capture the town in preparation for a larger offensive to drive the British and Canadians back into the sea, Kurt Meyer ordered an attack by 12 Panthers of the 3rd Company and infantry to attack Norrey-en-Bessin and drive the Canadians out of the town. The attack got under way at 1300 hours with the Panthers racing to the town at full speed only to stop to fire their guns, quickly outrunning their infantry support which was forced to the ground by Allied artillery fire. Within 1,000 m (1,100 yd) of the town, nine Shermans of the 1st Hussars opened fire into the advancing Panthers' flanks. Lt. Henry's gunner, Trooper A. Chapman, waited until the Panthers "lined up like ducks in a row" and quickly knocked out five with just six rounds. The attack was repulsed with the loss of seven of the 12 Panthers.[14]
I did find a pic of a firefly in the 'bocage' of Normandy now i just need to sort out when the bocage battles started cause there was fireflys on the beach on D Day itself .
Phill
ne example of this increased firepower was displayed by Lt. G. K. Henry's Firefly during the defense of Norrey-en-Bessin on 9 June against an attack by the 3rd Company of the 12th SS Panzer Regiment of the 12th SS Panzer Division. Determined to capture the town in preparation for a larger offensive to drive the British and Canadians back into the sea, Kurt Meyer ordered an attack by 12 Panthers of the 3rd Company and infantry to attack Norrey-en-Bessin and drive the Canadians out of the town. The attack got under way at 1300 hours with the Panthers racing to the town at full speed only to stop to fire their guns, quickly outrunning their infantry support which was forced to the ground by Allied artillery fire. Within 1,000 m (1,100 yd) of the town, nine Shermans of the 1st Hussars opened fire into the advancing Panthers' flanks. Lt. Henry's gunner, Trooper A. Chapman, waited until the Panthers "lined up like ducks in a row" and quickly knocked out five with just six rounds. The attack was repulsed with the loss of seven of the 12 Panthers.[14]
I did find a pic of a firefly in the 'bocage' of Normandy now i just need to sort out when the bocage battles started cause there was fireflys on the beach on D Day itself .
Phill
WARDUKWNZ
Joined: June 01, 2011
KitMaker: 1,716 posts
Armorama: 1,638 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 08:11 PM UTC
Sorted matey then count me and my butt in
Phill
then count me and my butt in Phill
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 08:14 PM UTC
So, we have
AlanL
patton76
BBD468
grayghost666
Hangelafette
panzerIV
Tanksami
steph2102
WARDUKWNZ
Means one more guy to go and I ca submit the campaign! And one more day to do so. :-)
AlanL
patton76
BBD468
grayghost666
Hangelafette
panzerIV
Tanksami
steph2102
WARDUKWNZ
Means one more guy to go and I ca submit the campaign! And one more day to do so. :-)
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 08:26 PM UTC
Phil,
IWM has a picture of a firefly coming on land on Sword beach on June 7th.
Catalogue number
B 5130
Part of
WAR OFFICE SECOND WORLD WAR OFFICIAL COLLECTION
Subject period Second World WarAlternative Names
object category: Black and white
Creator
Laing (Sgt)
No 5 Army Film & Photographic Unit
Category photographs
IWM has a picture of a firefly coming on land on Sword beach on June 7th.
Catalogue number
B 5130
Part of
WAR OFFICE SECOND WORLD WAR OFFICIAL COLLECTION
Subject period Second World WarAlternative Names
object category: Black and white
Creator
Laing (Sgt)
No 5 Army Film & Photographic Unit
Category photographs
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 08:45 PM UTC
Ok, due to some time constraints, and since we only need one more member, I already submitted the campaign.
A ribbon will be granted for every AFV that is finished before June 6th 2013 that you can document that was in action between the Caen - Cherbourg road and the coast between June 6th and June 9th 1944.
A special - exclusive :-) - ribbon will be granted for every AFV that is finished before the due date that actually landed on one of the 5 beaches on June 6th, so with wading gear and the lot attached.
Now, we just need to get this approved before Wednesday. :-)
Good luck and happy modelling!
Dave
A ribbon will be granted for every AFV that is finished before June 6th 2013 that you can document that was in action between the Caen - Cherbourg road and the coast between June 6th and June 9th 1944.
A special - exclusive :-) - ribbon will be granted for every AFV that is finished before the due date that actually landed on one of the 5 beaches on June 6th, so with wading gear and the lot attached.
Now, we just need to get this approved before Wednesday. :-)
Good luck and happy modelling!
Dave
PantherF
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 08:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
So, we have
AlanL
patton76
BBD468
grayghost666
Hangelafette
panzerIV
Tanksami
steph2102
WARDUKWNZ
Means one more guy to go and I ca submit the campaign! And one more day to do so. :-)
Hey Dave! If it ends June 2013 then I can do it! So I'll be the 10th!
This is what I have:
Should be no problem to build in 6 months or so. Besides, I Like to build Shermans and it's ready to go!
~ Jeff
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 08:50 PM UTC
Looking good,
Don't see any reason why German Armour can't be used, after all they were there too.
The Fort Gary Horse had quite a few Shermen Fireflies, many being ICs and some with Hybrid hulls.
If you need details I can send them along.
Al
Don't see any reason why German Armour can't be used, after all they were there too.
The Fort Gary Horse had quite a few Shermen Fireflies, many being ICs and some with Hybrid hulls.
If you need details I can send them along.
Al
PantherF
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 08:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Don't see any reason why German Armour can't be used, after all they were there too.
Al
Hey Al, please school me. What German armor was there?
~ Jeff
WARDUKWNZ
Joined: June 01, 2011
KitMaker: 1,716 posts
Armorama: 1,638 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 08:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Don't see any reason why German Armour can't be used, after all they were there too.
Al
Hey Al, please school me. What German armor was there?
~ Jeff
Second that
let the info run free Alan ..you'll make us two pretty happy Phill
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 09:38 PM UTC
Hi folks,
One assumes that the campaign will cover more than 6th June as the landing took place over several days.
If I remember correctly some Germman armour was seen at Pegasus Bridge the morning after the airborne landing there, remembering that they landed on the night of 5th June to be in place for 6th June.
http://www.dday-overlord.com/eng/pegasus_bridge.htm
You'd need to dig a bit more for the units involved from the German side but I'd say this puts German Armour in the frame.
Hope that helps.
Al
One assumes that the campaign will cover more than 6th June as the landing took place over several days.
If I remember correctly some Germman armour was seen at Pegasus Bridge the morning after the airborne landing there, remembering that they landed on the night of 5th June to be in place for 6th June.
http://www.dday-overlord.com/eng/pegasus_bridge.htm
You'd need to dig a bit more for the units involved from the German side but I'd say this puts German Armour in the frame.
Hope that helps.
Al
WARDUKWNZ
Joined: June 01, 2011
KitMaker: 1,716 posts
Armorama: 1,638 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 09:43 PM UTC
Alan .. Shouldnt be to hard to find out which German units were where in 1944 .. god knows theres more than enough info about German tank units in WW2 out there ..naa won't be hard to find this out
Phill
Phill
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 09:52 PM UTC
Hi Phil,
Look for infomration on the German Garrison at Bénouville Castle.
Ham and Jam
Al
Edit: 1st Panzer Engineering Company of the 716th Infantry Division I believe they had about half a dozen tanks the one mentioned in my references is a Mk IV which was destroyed by a PIAT fired by Sgt Thornton of the Ox & Bucks.
I dare say that if you looked at other German Garrison units they to would have had small detatchments of armour be they car, half tracks or tanks.
A
Look for infomration on the German Garrison at Bénouville Castle.
Ham and Jam
Al
Edit: 1st Panzer Engineering Company of the 716th Infantry Division I believe they had about half a dozen tanks the one mentioned in my references is a Mk IV which was destroyed by a PIAT fired by Sgt Thornton of the Ox & Bucks.
I dare say that if you looked at other German Garrison units they to would have had small detatchments of armour be they car, half tracks or tanks.
A
WARDUKWNZ
Joined: June 01, 2011
KitMaker: 1,716 posts
Armorama: 1,638 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 10:10 PM UTC
Thanks a heap for this Alan .. knowing a location now makes hunting down units much easier
Phill
Phill
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 10:16 PM UTC
Hi Phill/Jeff,
Glad to help, there was also the 2nd Panzer Engineering at La Port and look also at the later afternoon attack by 192d Regiment of the 21st Panzer at Ranville and also 21st Panzer mounted a counter attack against Sword Beach in the mid/late eveing I believe.
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_sword_beach.html
Al
Glad to help, there was also the 2nd Panzer Engineering at La Port and look also at the later afternoon attack by 192d Regiment of the 21st Panzer at Ranville and also 21st Panzer mounted a counter attack against Sword Beach in the mid/late eveing I believe.
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_sword_beach.html
Al
erichvon
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 1,694 posts
Armorama: 1,584 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 10:34 PM UTC
Count me in, Normandy is my favourite campaign of WW2. Not sure what I'll run with yet as I've got a Cromwell sat in my stash as well as a Churchill 
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 11:39 PM UTC
@Alan: thanks for all the info and support! This is gonna be great, besides getting some great models, we're also gonna learn a lot about the D-Day battles in the process. I'm really glad you're on board, your knowledge of British armor will be very valuable.
@Phil: thanks for your enthusiasm! :-)
@Karl: welcome on board!
Dave
@Phil: thanks for your enthusiasm! :-)
@Karl: welcome on board!
Dave
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 11:46 PM UTC
Jeff,
Since this campaign will be about D-Day armor, the June 6th date is of course important, even if it's just from a psychological perception. ;-)
But what I can do, if you can manage to get a painted model by June 6th 2013, I'll give you the ribbon, then you'll have 24 days to do the wheatering to your liking.
Deal? :-)
Dave
Since this campaign will be about D-Day armor, the June 6th date is of course important, even if it's just from a psychological perception. ;-)
But what I can do, if you can manage to get a painted model by June 6th 2013, I'll give you the ribbon, then you'll have 24 days to do the wheatering to your liking.
Deal? :-)
Dave
ltb073
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 3,662 posts
Armorama: 3,078 posts
Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 12:48 AM UTC
WOW step away for a day and a 2 page tread about a new campaign developed. Well being I am a campaign-a-holic you can count me in. Have to look through the stash to see if anything I have would have been facing the allied invasion. But if not I'll get something
Jeff, that kit goes together in 10 minuets, just throw a tube of glue in the box and shake it a bit and it comes out looking like this
Quoted Text
Hey Dave! If it ends June 2013 then I can do it! So I'll be the 10th!
This is what I have:
Should be no problem to build in 6 months or so. Besides, I Like to build Shermans and it's ready to go!
~ Jeff
Jeff, that kit goes together in 10 minuets, just throw a tube of glue in the box and shake it a bit and it comes out looking like this
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 01:18 AM UTC
Welcome a board Sal!
I'm looking forward to your build!
Dave
I'm looking forward to your build!
Dave
hogarth
Joined: June 02, 2006
KitMaker: 672 posts
Armorama: 592 posts
Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 02:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextSo, we have
AlanL
patton76
BBD468
grayghost666
Hangelafette
panzerIV
Tanksami
steph2102
WARDUKWNZ
Means one more guy to go and I ca submit the campaign! And one more day to do so. :-)
Hey Dave! If it ends June 2013 then I can do it! So I'll be the 10th!
This is what I have:
The M4A3 75w w/47 degree hull was NOT used at Normandy...sorry, but you'd have to do a different sherman....the Tamiya M4 or some of the Dragon and Tasca ones would work better for you.
Rob
Should be no problem to build in 6 months or so. Besides, I Like to build Shermans and it's ready to go!
~ Jeff
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 02:39 AM UTC
Jeff,
Robs right of course, there were no M4A3s in Normandy at that time, so your up to a serious modification, kit bashing or just choose another subject. :-)
But you have plenty of time to decide. :-)
Dave
Robs right of course, there were no M4A3s in Normandy at that time, so your up to a serious modification, kit bashing or just choose another subject. :-)
But you have plenty of time to decide. :-)
Dave
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