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1991 Gulf War T-62 Markings
2doink
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Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 05:11 PM UTC
I've been looking at 1991 Gulf War era T-62's lately to confirm the markings of Iraqi T-62's used at the said era but I can't really get a fix on it. I've noticed that some have yellow color on the main turret / barrel with a white single stripe while others don't have it. I'm also having a hard time confirming the tank's number's digit / location and other special markings. Can anyone please help me on this? Thanks!
Tiger_213
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Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 06:53 PM UTC
Some units didn't have ANY markings. Specifically units that were using the T-55 'Enigma'. As for as the yellow with the stripe, it might have been some kind of identification marking; though that's just my guess.
2doink
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Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 08:48 PM UTC
Yeah. And when I look at other models of T-62 that are on the Gulf War era, some of them also didn't have any markings at all. Just plain sand color and heavy weathered. Oh well, I hope I'll be able to confirm this soon enough. Thanks for the input. : )
2doink
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Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 09:36 PM UTC
I also found this info. I'm not just really sure if it's accurate and in case it is accurate, I wonder if the T-62 model 1962 did also carried the same paint scheme and markings...

Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 11:47 PM UTC
It's quite hard to know, because almost all the information about the Iraqi army have been lost.

If I were you I'd chose a specific exemplar seen on the original picures and I'd try to replicate it
Tiger_213
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Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 11:55 PM UTC
I'd do what Mauro said. The little bit of information doesn't sound so outlandish that it's unbelievable; though I have to say it's just as likely that Iraqi's didn't take record of everything to begin with.
windysean
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 02:11 AM UTC
This is an excellent topic. I bet Tiger and Spider are right, that what records there were are lost now. Is there a way to track down the author of the blurb you pasted with the example illustration? The text sounds very informed, and there's probably more information wherever that came from.
thanks for posting this!
-Sean H.
zapper
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 03:43 AM UTC
I assume this is another m1962 with welded on mg-cupola:


The markings visible seem like those on the drawing.

Cheers,
/E
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 04:31 AM UTC
Another Desert Storm T-62 :



The markings appear to be similar to those in this drawing :

http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1005/26_127030_479ed56eaeacc37.jpg

On a side note, the color drawing in Isaac's post comes from S.Zaloga's "T-62 Main Battle Tank 1965-2005" book (Osprey)

Frenchy
Tiger_213
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 04:32 AM UTC
Wow Frenchy, not only do you know something relevant about the subject but you know exactly which book and what year it's from!
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 04:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Wow Frenchy, not only do you know something relevant about the subject but you know exactly which book and what year it's from!



To say the truth, Google found it for me

http://books.google.fr/books?id=9uZDdQzxJWQC&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=desert+storm+t-62+markings&source=bl&ots=0-SjNco8F5&sig=RW2H3hOh08FB9TnKavQFytwg-ms&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mBXCUKviBK-b1AWR14CIDA&sqi=2&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=desert%20storm%20t-62%20markings&f=false

Frenchy
Tiger_213
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 04:50 AM UTC
That looks like a great book if you're into the T-62.
zapper
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 05:27 AM UTC
No way to tell if the one in Frenchy's photo is a 62 or 68 (AFAIK) but at least it got the T-55 cupola added.

Cheers,
/E
Kharkov
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 10:15 PM UTC


When I did my Iraqi T-72 blinkin ages ago, I seem to remember I spent ages on the internet trying to find info on the correct markings, and seem to remember pritty much giving up tbh, I ended up hand painting the markings in the picture onto gray circles, these seem to match what Steve Zaloga is saying in his book, but I think I have the wrong colours, lol

I think the yellow painted bore evacuators were only used on Saladin Armoured Divisions, plus Republican Guard units, with a single white band (stripe), and everything else just had a white band (stripe), but not sure tbh.

I think I just stole my info from a very old article in a model mag that was lumped in with a feature about Gulf War armor.

Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 10:47 PM UTC
On primeportal site there's an incredibly interesting walkaround. Mr Till Sunderman made these pics

http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/till_sunderman/t-62/index.php?Page=1

As you can see, it has an Alk painted on the front glancis



and a number on the turret (it might mean: "B-11" )



You can also notice that is a T-62 model 1962



The only thing which I don't know is if this tank has been empolied during the first or the second gulf war

zapper
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Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2012 - 01:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text


You can also notice that is a T-62 model 1962



Christopher Ager ID'ed this one as a North Korean T-62 copy Chonma-ho. They come with early type (m1962-ish) hulls and late type (m1972-ish) turrets.

According to Christopher the main visual differences are:

"NK copies do not have mounting points for mine clearing equipment on the upper and lower hull."

"Also there is a minor detail on the loader's hatch, the pintle is more beefed up to hold up the weight of the KPVT gun and the back of the ring is different from the standard m72"

Cheers,
/E
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2012 - 02:05 AM UTC
Yes, it's true. Thanks a lot for the clarification Erik. I'm more accustomed to recognizing the T55 versions
2doink
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Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2012 - 02:13 AM UTC
I haven't been able to check this thread for a while but I'm glad it already made progress. Thanks to all who have posted and contributed.

Should I won't be able to get a pin point accuracy on the markings, maybe I'll just leave my soon to be T-62 project without a marking for a while.

But I still want to apply markings.
Tiger_213
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Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2012 - 03:22 AM UTC
That's the issue with Iraqi armor. They never really very many, if any markings. Considering what I've read on the Tawakalna ala-Allah divisions marking, I'd say it's safe to assume many Republican Guard units lacked markings as it would cause them to become an immediate target. If you want to do markings I'd use your original informational-photo Issac. Would probably work as a 'peace-time' scheme but would at least have some sort of identification
chefchris
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Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 12:38 PM UTC
The Republican Guards divisions sometimes had a red triangle with or without a black border. Some of the pictures in this thread are from OIF not GW1.
1st armoured division vehicles had a green or sometimes gray disc on their vehicles.

I have order of battle info for the 91 gulfwar somewhere and Ill bet global security has it also.

Chris
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 - 06:09 PM UTC
Some other interesting pictures here
http://tanksim.org.ru/references/grs/T62%20Iraq91/t62iraq91grs.php

Note the markings

















As you can notice, engine deck is the erliest one, turret is the latest,as well as the track links



Tiger_213
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Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 - 07:25 PM UTC
While looking for references for my Lion of Babylon I found most of the pictures Mauro has posted, and many more. Everything I've found has showed the very basic markings Mauro has already provided you, or no markings at all. Markings are usually on the turret or sometimes on the rear hull (haven't seen any on the glacis plate but Mauro's pictures show it). That's provided they had any markings. As for the yellow bar with white stripe, only found one other photo with markings like that.

EDIT: In Mauro's link the first photo shows floor tiles under the barrel. The Iraqi's did this to keep from making such huge clouds of dust when firing their weapons. They used carpets, tile flooring or just concrete poured under the gun. I do not believe they actually 'buried' the vehicle as the picture shows, though they might have been that stupid.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 - 07:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

While looking for references for my Lion of Babylon...



Have you seen them?

http://tanksim.org.ru/references/t72m1iraq/t72m1iraqpic.php

http://tanksim.org.ru/references/grs/t72iraq91/t72iraq91.php
Tiger_213
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Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 - 07:32 PM UTC
We posted at the same time Mauro. I have seen the Fort Hood example, I think Frenchy linked me to an album with some decent shots of it. Very nice pictures, they're usually touristy pictures instead of a walk-around like what you've linked too. These will be very useful, thanks a lot!

EDIT: One of the pictures from Mauro's (second, I think) link;
http://tanksim.org.ru/references/grs/t72iraq91/T72-113.jpg

Some writing on the skirt armor. Likely military as it's pretty clean/clear writing and it doesn't look like graffiti.

The second (lower) link is T-72 while the first is all T-62 it seems.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 - 08:52 PM UTC
As far as I remember, only the elite corps of the Iraqi republican guard had T-72.
I'm not an expert though