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Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
Hosted by Darren Baker
M48 question- dozer tank?
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 09:31 PM UTC
I am currently building the Tamiya M48 and using Wolfpak Decals set for Hell Kat. I posted the pic below in a build thread and someone pointed out the "mystery box" in the first picture. In the second picture it sort of looks like there is the hydraulic line cover on the glacis. Is this correct or are these items something else. Thanks!


Tankrider
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Oklahoma, United States
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Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:31 PM UTC
Jason,
You are on it... That is the control valve and guard box that is on the fender. There should be a covered line that swings in front of the driver's hatch and down to the front. If you can get a hold of the Hunnicutt Patton book, take a look at pages 384-385 as there is a line drawing that lays out the components of the M8A3 Bulldozer blade and the associated hydraulics.

Now that I can see that Hell Kat is a blade tank, the 4th Engineers bumper numbers make sense.

John
sherb
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New York, United States
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Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:36 PM UTC
Edit. Looks like John confirmed it as a dozer while I was typing a reply. A couple things I noticed:

1) You can see some additional lines/piping towards the rear of the tank.

2) I'm not 100% sure but wouldn't dozer tanks be assigned to the HQ Company? Looks like Hell Kat's fender markings show an HQ.

3) Other photos. I went back to take a look at the USMC Playboy Bunny dozer tank photos I have, we discussed them in a thread a little while back, it has the same "box" on the fender. It also shows up on this dozer:

dozer

I'm hoping you're going to add these items to your already great build. It will definitely make for a unique model.
pascalbausset
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Moselle, France
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:48 PM UTC
I have found this pic :


Coming from : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:M_48_A2_DB.png
jwest21
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Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:48 PM UTC
thanks guys. Just when I thought I was almost finished!! The irony is I changed from the Playboy bunny tank to this one because I wasn't sure I was up to building the dozer parts! I'll have to see if I can use anything from the M60 dozer kit. It sort of looks like the dozer part itself was removed, though. If thats the case, I am going to needto figure out what would have been left on and what was removed. I'll have to see if I can find the Hunnicutt book too
sherb
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Posted: Monday, March 18, 2013 - 10:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

thanks guys. Just when I thought I was almost finished!! The irony is I changed from the Playboy bunny tank to this one because I wasn't sure I was up to building the dozer parts!



You could always go to plan C and leave off "Hell Kat", keep the Vietnamese warning decals and do a generic 69th Armor vehicle. That said, I still think you should do Hell Kat with the dozer plumbing.
jwest21
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Posted: Monday, March 18, 2013 - 11:41 AM UTC
I am going to collect info on the dozer parts and then see if I have enough info to build it
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, March 18, 2013 - 12:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I am going to collect info on the dozer parts and then see if I have enough info to build it



Maybe a TM would help ?

http://operatormanuals.tpub.com/TM-9-2590-213-15/index.htm

Another source (easier to browse) :

https://www.logsa.army.mil/etmpdf/files/010000/017500/018397.pdf

H.P.
Tankrider
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Posted: Monday, March 18, 2013 - 12:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm not 100% sure but wouldn't dozer tanks be assigned to the HQ Company? Looks like Hell Kat's fender markings show an HQ.



Sherb,
Typically for an M48/M60 equipped Armor company, the XO's tank was the blade tank. Ralph Zumbro, the author of Tank Sergeant, mentioned that the tank that he was the TC for, after Tet, was A/1-69's dozer tank in A/1-69. He never specifically mentioned that it was the XO's tank but did mention that his "wingman", Cheyenne Black, in the A Co HQ tank section was the TC for the Commander's tank.

Now with tanks being assigned to an Engineer Battalion, who knows what company they were assigned to or what vehicles that they ere replacing - Maybe CEVs...

Chalk it up to another mystery in the fog of the Viet Nam Conflict.

I agree, keep/run the hydraulics and keep the HellKat markings for a unique M48A3

John
jwest21
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Posted: Monday, March 18, 2013 - 12:54 PM UTC
Thanks Frenchy! Those look like they will be a big help
BigDaddybluesman
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Posted: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 11:22 PM UTC
I have been waiting and waiting for someone to make a dozer kit for the M48. I don't know why nobody has yet. I had one resin guy promise but never did.

It would be a big seller just like anybody who comes up with a M37.

It's not that hard to do, I have seen some modelers do a good job. You can use the M9 kit than fabricate the rest of the boxes and make a few small changes. But it's easier to say than do it.

I fear I will eventually have to make one myself. My skills are not there yet. Hopefully eventually they will be, I have some other things to make like a MSSC seal boat.

It would help if I had some line drawings of the boxes. They are simple thin metal boxes covering the hydraulic plumbing.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 857 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 12:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have been waiting and waiting for someone to make a dozer kit for the M48. I don't know why nobody has yet. I had one resin guy promise but never did.

It would be a big seller just like anybody who comes up with a M37.

It's not that hard to do, I have seen some modelers do a good job. You can use the M9 kit than fabricate the rest of the boxes and make a few small changes. But it's easier to say than do it.

I fear I will eventually have to make one myself. My skills are not there yet. Hopefully eventually they will be, I have some other things to make like a MSSC seal boat.

It would help if I had some line drawings of the boxes. They are simple thin metal boxes covering the hydraulic plumbing.



simply amazes me that we can come out with every version of this tank and that tank plus a gazillion paper tanks that never saw production, but we cannot built an M37 3/4 ton truck! Every outfit had at least one, and their life span was probably forty years or more. I never thought I'd ever see a new Ontos after the Renwall version, and then Academy gave us one. Not perfect, but at least a good starting point. Another much needed kit is the M54 five ton truck. They used hundreds and hundreds of them in Vietnam alone, but still ignored by the manufacturers. Then there's the M56 Scorpion. They didn't make a lot of them, but they did see combat. I'd be extremely happy with a gas engined M88 wrecker!!

It seems to me like somebody made a conversion kit with the M9 dozer blade for the M48 tank. Perhaps it was Verlinden? They used a lot of them in II-Corps and III-Corps. I don't remember ever seeing one in I-Corps, but they were probably there.
gary
casailor
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Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 12:59 PM UTC
The M37s were still in use by the reserves as late as 1979 and probably later. I wouldn't be surprised if some reserve units didn't got right from M37s to HUMMVs.
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 12:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'd be extremely happy with a gas engined M88 wrecker!!



This one ?



You can find it here (just an example)

H.P.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 12:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'd be extremely happy with a gas engined M88 wrecker!!



This one ?



You can find it here (just an example)

H.P.



I thought that kit was long out of production!
gary
BigDaddybluesman
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Texas, United States
Joined: November 17, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, March 24, 2013 - 11:10 PM UTC
I think both Italeri and AFV club re-released some of their older models.

I see the M88, M109 from Italeri and AFV club the M88, M35, M35 quad 50.

But still the modeling industry ignores the cold war and Vietnam era American armor and vehicles. It's hard to find an academy M151A1 now. I knew they were going OOP so I bought a bunch. They still have the version with the recoilless rifle left over so you'll see that around more.

You just have to make do with what is out there and spend a lot of money on conversion kits. Improve your scratch skills and hope for the best.

There are some companies making some nice stuff that never reaches the States. The shipping costs are killing the model industry in the USA, along with the fear of stocking shelves with products that will lay there too long. That is the profit killer for a small business. Some really good stuff from Europe and Asia just never gets here.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 857 posts
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Posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 - 12:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I think both Italeri and AFV club re-released some of their older models.

I see the M88, M109 from Italeri and AFV club the M88, M35, M35 quad 50.

But still the modeling industry ignores the cold war and Vietnam era American armor and vehicles. It's hard to find an academy M151A1 now. I knew they were going OOP so I bought a bunch. They still have the version with the recoilless rifle left over so you'll see that around more.

You just have to make do with what is out there and spend a lot of money on conversion kits. Improve your scratch skills and hope for the best.

There are some companies making some nice stuff that never reaches the States. The shipping costs are killing the model industry in the USA, along with the fear of stocking shelves with products that will lay there too long. That is the profit killer for a small business. Some really good stuff from Europe and Asia just never gets here.



remember most all (if not all) M88's used in Vietnam were gasoline engined versions. They are a little different. Brother inlaw will be over later this week, and I'll run it by him as he was armored cav.

As for an M151a1 kit, there's one for sale on ARC for the ghastly sum of $7!! I ought to buy it myself! I'm now on the hunt for another M35 truck. Found a photo of one that a bunch of MACV-SF guys stole the other night, and I just gotta build it! Has to be one with the winch, and look like it's been dropped out of a C130! This truck was very rough looking to say the least.
gary