login   |    register
Campaigns: Completed Campaigns
Campaigns that are completed should be grouped here.
Hosted by John Pereira
What If 4: Machines of the Mind
tankmodeler
#417
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,087 posts
Armorama: 2,503 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 02:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Paul & Don,
The large vehicle size and low height struck me as funny at first. I'm building a Puma IFV for the Big Cats Campaign and it's pretty big and has a low vehicle height as well. And come to think of it, BMPs are pretty low as well.


The Puma and BMPs are really not terribly big. They are not a whole lot taller than teh tank hulls they are built on (still 7-8 feet, to be sure). Namer, on the other hand, is immense!. It's almost as tall as an MBT! And for that height, it has 6 normal sized road wheels.

The APC in the image has 8 that would be about Centurion/Namer/Merkava sized for it's height and that makes it a very long APC that could probaly hold 8ish dismounts plus the turret crew and driver, making it another immense APC; maybe 25% longer than a Namer.

That's a really big vehicle.

If one imagines that it has Bradley wheels, it's still longer than a Bradley by a bit, but much more reasonable in length, but then it becomes very, very low. And the BMPs are motorious for being terrible machines for their dismounts and hell to fight from.

Does the game it comes from give any idea about it's size?

One has to consider the bow of the vehicle as well. It's going to dig in every time if travels over broken country or trenches. The M114 had that problem back in the 60s and APC designers learned that lesson then.

Paul
35th-scale
Visit this Community
Kildare, Ireland
Joined: November 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3,212 posts
Armorama: 2,807 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 - 09:03 PM UTC
Saw this in the Hobbyboss catalog and I'm thinking that would make a grate base for a post-apocalypse Landmaster type vehicle...

grimmo
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 750 posts
Armorama: 567 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 - 09:52 PM UTC
I've started on mine, only got one pics so far, but had it almost in one piece before taking a pic.

Background: Basically machines have become self awake, started making their own machines and adapting to over come the human menace. the vehicle I have mad is based on an M-113, modified to a basic sentry/short range patrol vehicle. it will have a turret on it with a .50 and 40mm GMG, and possibly another remote weapons station. there is a FLIR turret on top of the turret, and might mount another

tankmodeler
#417
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,087 posts
Armorama: 2,503 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 09, 2014 - 01:26 AM UTC
Oi! You there! Stop that working!

We've not started yet!

The campaign starts the _end_ of the month. You're allowed to have _some_ work done, but you're approaching the point where your model will be invalid by being too far along.

Paul
grimmo
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 750 posts
Armorama: 567 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 09, 2014 - 02:25 AM UTC
bugger, sorry paul! thought this had already started!
tankmodeler
#417
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,087 posts
Armorama: 2,503 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 09, 2014 - 10:37 AM UTC
that's all right, mate, just glad we cought you before you ran headlong into enemy fire!

Just stop now until the campaign really starts and we'll all look the other way and tell the coppers we never saw nuttin'!

Paul
grimmo
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 750 posts
Armorama: 567 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 09, 2014 - 10:50 AM UTC
no worries. I didn't get that much further, due to starting something else like I always do!
1721Lancers
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: March 21, 2012
KitMaker: 1,673 posts
Armorama: 1,640 posts
Posted: Friday, January 10, 2014 - 03:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

bugger, sorry paul! thought this had already started!



bloody cheat
To straighten things out I want see an interior and at least 5 zombies that the machines keep as guard dogs



Paul B
Bluestab
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,148 posts
Armorama: 1,905 posts
Posted: Friday, January 10, 2014 - 07:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text


To straighten things out I want see an interior and at least 5 zombies that the machines keep as guard dogs
Paul B



And the zombies have zombie guard dogs! And mud flaps for the APC...Yosemite Sam or Trucker Girl mud flaps.

It'll be interesting to see your work Matt. Do you mean the machines arising like Terminators or machines coming to life as in Maximum Overdrive? If the former, are you going to include some robots in the scene?
grimmo
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 750 posts
Armorama: 567 posts
Posted: Friday, January 10, 2014 - 10:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


To straighten things out I want see an interior and at least 5 zombies that the machines keep as guard dogs
Paul B



And the zombies have zombie guard dogs! And mud flaps for the APC...Yosemite Sam or Trucker Girl mud flaps.

It'll be interesting to see your work Matt. Do you mean the machines arising like Terminators or machines coming to life as in Maximum Overdrive? If the former, are you going to include some robots in the scene?



Like terminator. I'm going to try and make some robot type things as well. I've been trying to make sensor/flir turrets for other projects, and that sucks. finding it too hard. wish someone made a kit of flir turrets/heads
Bluestab
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,148 posts
Armorama: 1,905 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2014 - 04:53 AM UTC
Sounds good Matt. I've tried to build a robots in the past and failed horribly. I have a terrible time getting the proportions right. Anyway, I'll be interested to see your build.
ComradeMP
#0
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: July 31, 2011
KitMaker: 414 posts
Armorama: 395 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 12:41 PM UTC
I'm in. Thinking something KV related. I've seen drawings for one of the KV-4 plans that had me thinking "Russian Ferdinand".


Something similar to this.

BTW how do I sign up? Been to the campaign page but didn't see anything for the sign up.
Bluestab
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,148 posts
Armorama: 1,905 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 03:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text


BTW how do I sign up? Been to the campaign page but didn't see anything for the sign up.



Go to the Campaign Page Link. Look up in the top righthand corner. If it says "Log-In", log in. Sometimes you have to log in even if you are logged in on Armorama. If you log in you'll see a tag that says "Enlist" right above the list of names of people that are part of the campaign. It will be on the right side of the page. Hope that helps.
ComradeMP
#0
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: July 31, 2011
KitMaker: 414 posts
Armorama: 395 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 12:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


BTW how do I sign up? Been to the campaign page but didn't see anything for the sign up.



Go to the Campaign Page Link. Look up in the top righthand corner. If it says "Log-In", log in. Sometimes you have to log in even if you are logged in on Armorama. If you log in you'll see a tag that says "Enlist" right above the list of names of people that are part of the campaign. It will be on the right side of the page. Hope that helps.



Ah, thanks. That was it. Just needed to log in again.
tankmodeler
#417
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,087 posts
Armorama: 2,503 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 04:34 PM UTC
OK, so we're not supposed to be starting our builds, but we can start to talk abuot our builds. If you have a backstory for your WHIF, feel free to share it any time. I'll start:

What If the Australians had decided to emulate the Churchill when they made their indigenous tank and not use components from the Sherman/Lee.

The Australian Cast Churchill w/ 87mm gun

With supplies of tanks from the UK being almost nonexistant, the Australians decided, like the other Dominions, to design their own tank to suit their purposes. Without an indigenous armour plate industry, cast homgeneous armour was seen as the way to go. The existing cruiser and infantry tanks had numerous shortcomings, but the Brits were making this new tank, the Churchill, and it looked very promising.

With the exception that the manufacturing method changed from welded plate to casting, the Churchill's hull and running gear were kept much as they were. Yes, shot traps were eliminated along with the side doors, but you could definitely tell it was a Churchill. The turret, though, was a different thing. The Aussies had had enough of the 2 pdr in the desert and knew it was useless as an infantry support weapon and nearly useless as an antitank weapon. They needed something better, but were not tooling up to make any of the larger AT guns themselves. What they were making was the 25 pdr. It had a very useful AT performance and was more than perfect for infantry support, the task they expected to use their tanks for most.

Having access to 25 pdrs and ammo, they took the initiative when putting the 25 pdr into their home-made Churchill and lengthened the 25 pdr's tube a little, adding about 24" to the length and taking full advantage of the slightly increased muzzle velocity to increase the armour penetration power of the 25 pdr's AP rounds while not sacrificing the performance or, more importantly, the interchangeability of the HE and smoke rounds. The new recoil mechanism needed for the turret mount could easily absorb the higher recoil, but the increase in velocity and bore pressure wasn't enough to compromise the existing 25 pdr ammo.

To fit this much larger gun required a new turret. The Aussies took advantage of necessity and changed the turret design to eliminate the vertical sides and large flat front face of the Churchill turret. The new turret tapered toward the front and the sides were angled away from the vertical to increase both internal room and penetration resistance. The Commander's and Loaders hatches were mover further apart to clear the larger breech of the new tank gun and the loader actually found himself with a fair amount of room in which to load the larger ammunition. The rate of fire of the new tank gun was nearly as high as that of the artillery piece it was derived from.

Cast Churchills were supplied with 75 rounds of what was called 87mm ammo to distinguish the new fixed tank ammo from the separate-loading 25 pdr artillery ammo, but the shells were interchangeable with the artillery peices. 87mm AP rounds were the equivalent of the standard 25 pdr AP shot married to the super-charge filled casing and the HE round was the equivalent of the 25 pdr's HE round married to a casing filled with the artillery Charge 1. There being no need for extended range for the tank gun, fixed cartridges with different charges were not procured.

Late in the war, the Austrialian ordnance industry developed an APCBC round, but given the poor quality of the Japanese armour, this was not proceeded with.

While officially designated the Churchill Mk XX, they were universally called Winnies to distinguish them from the standard Churchills.

Several variants of the Winnie were built or prototyped. There was the Churchilll XXI, with an experimental attempt to fit a 17 pdr in a modified Winnie turret. The Winnie AVRE, a Churchill XX connerted to jungle AVRE configuration. The Churchill XXII, fitted with an American Flamethrower instead of the main gun which served in the jungle battles. And finally the Winnie ARK, which, like it's Churchill bretheren, was used to cross small rivers and streams.

The Winnie served failtfully until replaced by the Centurion although several Winnie AVREs and ARKs survived to serve in Vietnam until 1969 when they were finally clapped out and withdrawn.


My model will be an old Tamiya Churchill converted to a cast hull with a new turret and a maun gun made from a lengthened Tamiya 25 PDR tube with muzzle brake. Should look b!tchen!
Bluestab
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,148 posts
Armorama: 1,905 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 02:45 PM UTC
Nice background story.

For mine, I have three projects planned.

Assault Stuart- This is a pretty much an American attempt to follow German "assault gun doctrine". That doctrine is to take a chassis, replace the turret with a raised superstructure, and add a larger, fixed main gun. I'll be using the Tamiya M5A1 kit. For the main gun I have the old Tamiya 6pdr and an old Italeri 76mm gun. I haven't decided on which of the two I'll use.

Assault Sherman or Jaeger- This oen is still up in the air. I started with it just being an assault gun based on a Sherman chassis. I was goign to arm it with a 90mm gun. I couldn't find the gun I was plannignt o use so I decided to tweak the story. The second version was a vehicle that German engineers had made from captured Shermans. Basically, remove the turret and add a Panther 75mm gun or a 88mm.

Then I had another idea. Have the vehicle be a formal joint project. I haven't worked out the details but assume events occur that lead to the USSR breakign from the Allies and pushing on in to western Europe. Mayeb Hitler dies during the bombing at Wolf's Lair. Operation Valkerie goes off as planned and the new leadership sues for peace with the Allies. The western Allies agree, but Stalin wants revenge and as much territory as his forces can get.

One program is the adapting of the Sherman chassis to German specs. German engineers take a Sherman and mount a 88mm gun in a fixed superstructure. The vehicles are powered by Detroit Diesels. Later versions are equipped with IR nightfighting systems. I'm liking the name Jaeger or maybe Rhino, even though it's not a feline name.

For it, I'll be using an old Italeri Sherman, a long 88mm gun from the spares, and I've got a set of HVSS suspension and track from an old Dragon Easy 8 kit.

The third project is a Panzer IV ausf. L. Basically, I'll be taking an old Academy Panzer IV and giving it sloped armor and tweaking the design for a 1946-47 scenario.

I think I have about everything I need. I just need January to end.
Bluestab
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,148 posts
Armorama: 1,905 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 06:30 AM UTC
Starter pictures.

Box-o-junk for the Assault Stuart. I'm going to try to squeeze a 76mm gun on it. If not, I have a 6pdr as a back-up.


Box-o-junk for the Jagdsherman. And yes that is a cast M4a1 hull. You'll never see it. Lots of odd bits for this one. Going to arm it with a long 88 or a Panther 75mm. I have a engine for it. I hope it'll be a mish-mash of German and American details.


I left the Panzer IV/L starter picture out for now. I'm going to hold off a bit and see if I can come up with an unstarted kit and a replacement set of tracks. I found an old RPM Vicker mk5. Assault Vickers?
tankmodeler
#417
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,087 posts
Armorama: 2,503 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 02:59 PM UTC
Cool! You might consider lengthening the Stuart hull a few feet to give more room to serve the 76mm??

Also, here's my start on the 25 pdr Churchill:

Still in the box:

Next, the chopped and sectioned waiting to dry before getting a new shape.




So she's well underway!

Paul
Bluestab
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,148 posts
Armorama: 1,905 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 03:50 PM UTC
Robert,
Nice progress.

I spent part of the night mocking up the casement for the Stuart. Lengthening the hull to accommodate the 76mm gun was a contingency plan. Track length will be an issue so I think I'll stick with the stock chassis length. Then I remembered an old Italeri M24 on the shelf.

I think it'll work better and work with the assault gun premise. I think it works with the background story as well. I figure Allies would have a surplus of the 75mm guns and it would relieve demand for the 76mm gun (and ammo) that would be in demand for Shermans and Hellcats.

Anyway, I got some template work accomplished on both the Jagdsherman and Assault Stuart. With the 75mm gun I may tweak the Stuart templates a bit to give it a slightly lower profile height. It'll probably be Monday or Tuesday before I post pictures though.
tankmodeler
#417
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,087 posts
Armorama: 2,503 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2014 - 01:13 AM UTC
The track issue isn't as much of a problem if you use the sand shields. Then the open section of track can be hidden under the shields and you'd never know.

Just a thought.

If you are considering using the 75mm, check your stash for the old Italeri 105mm howitzer. There was a lightweight version, the M3 that used a simplified recoil mechanism along with a shortened 105mm barrel. The T85 SP used it with an M5 chassis so it might fit well with an assault gun variant. In fact, the recoil mechanism is such that you could simulate the barrel with some plain plastic tube and then buld a simple armoured box to protect the recoil mechanism and not even need an 105mm kit at all!

Just another thought...

:)
Bluestab
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,148 posts
Armorama: 1,905 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2014 - 11:35 AM UTC
I thought about a 105mm gun or a 90mm for the Assault Sherman but nixed that one when I shifted it to a German vehicle. I'd think a 105mm on a Stuart would be a bit to large, especially in terms of ammo storage. I'm not sure about the sand shields; either leave them off or fab something that covers more of the suspension.

I got the templates cut for the Stuart. I'm trying to make a little headway on the Jagdsherman. I'll be juggling back and forth between the two.
tankmodeler
#417
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,087 posts
Armorama: 2,503 posts
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2014 - 02:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'd think a 105mm on a Stuart would be a bit to large, especially in terms of ammo storage.


Well, it _is_ a touch too large, but they did make one and did find it was too small to crew the weapon. That might go away if the hull was a tad longer...





They also put the 75mm pack howitzer in an up armoured casemate:


Just sayin...
gcdavidson
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: August 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,694 posts
Armorama: 1,559 posts
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2014 - 02:21 PM UTC
Got me a big box o' gundam parts. Bring on the particle cannon.
Bluestab
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,148 posts
Armorama: 1,905 posts
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2014 - 05:48 PM UTC
Thanks Robert but I think I'm goign to go with an enclosed upper hull and use the 75mm gun. I hadn't thought about extending the fighting compartment above the engine deck...or at least using it as an ammo stowage area. I actually thought about a short 75mm howitzer and explain it as a precursor to the M8 HMC. I could see the Soviets maybe using soem of those Lend-Lease Stuarts to make their own Marders wielding 76mm guns. Maybe What-If 5.

Anyway, I'm making pretty decent progress on the Jagdsherman. The casement is cut and assembled. I shot a quick coat of dark yellow to the lower hull and am letting it dry overnight. I'll spray the HVSS components tomorrow. I took the drying time to start on the tracks. I just started two 10cm sections that'll be used as part of the bottom runs. It'll give me a little jump start on those. The tracks appear to be pretty nice and go together well. I'm a little antsy about the suspension.

It's a pretty fun little project. I'm enjoying blending US and German details. I'll try to get some photos up tomorrow.
Nito74
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: March 04, 2008
KitMaker: 5,378 posts
Armorama: 4,721 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 - 03:56 AM UTC
Sorry guys, I was just checking the Campaign schedules and missed the start of this one ..

Here's the KitMaker Campaign Gallery to post your finished builds.

Remember to have fun !!