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Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
Campaign OP Market Garden
Paulinsibculo
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,259 posts
Armorama: 1,177 posts
Posted: Friday, September 12, 2014 - 02:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Actually I was just looking for a justification to drive to Arnheim and shoot pictures



Always good to visit a Dutch town!
Coming from the south, as the Allied did, you may not recognize anything at all. After 70 years the surroundings of the drive ways to the bridge have been following the changes of time.
But.....
The good thing is that you may find a very well equiped modelshop within 500 meters, at the beginning of the Steenstraat nr. 20, called Wentink. That is at the city Side, the northern ( in the autumn of 1944 the temporarily liberated ) part of the bridge
canismalus
#465
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: September 12, 2014
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 362 posts
Posted: Friday, September 12, 2014 - 03:55 AM UTC
Hey everybody!

I want to do a diorama depicting one of the schwere Panzerabteilung 506's King Tigers (3rd company) during the battle around Elst, so I just picked up this guy:



I might have to wait until next February to start (it's usually kinda hairy during the semester) but I'm looking forward to this campaign!

See you,

Jerry
canismalus
#465
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: September 12, 2014
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 362 posts
Posted: Friday, September 12, 2014 - 04:00 AM UTC
Sorry, I just made a typical newbie mistake (I just joined Armorama) and just posted the thumbnail of the kit boxtop photo. Here's the full picture:



Jerry
pegasuspaul
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 11, 2014
KitMaker: 13 posts
Armorama: 9 posts
Posted: Friday, September 12, 2014 - 04:16 AM UTC
I'm in as I'm ex airborne forces. Got the bronco jeep with anti tank gun.
retiredyank
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Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, September 12, 2014 - 06:49 AM UTC
Allright. Got confirmation on the decals and I am good to go with the IC.
retiredyank
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Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, September 12, 2014 - 09:19 AM UTC
I apologize for the brightness, but it is the only way I could get a photo of my calendar. I may purchase some am parts, if I have the available funds. The sprockets are missing, but I have some in my spares.

Blackstoat
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: October 15, 2012
KitMaker: 564 posts
Armorama: 559 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2014 - 07:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Andy
If you can verify that a unit was using that somewhere along the line of the route, or was based close to any of the fighting I accept. A bit of research and you might find one was involved.



Pete



Hi guys

I'm drawing a blank on finding records of a Radschlepper assigned to one of the units along the MG route.

One thing I can say is that of the 206 built, the vast majority were allocated to units on the western front between northern France, through Belgium and into Holland.The Radschlepper was found to be unsuitable for it's intended use on the eastern front and it simply wasn't needed in Czechoslovakia and Poland where the roads tended to be slightly better than Russia. Hence it's assignment to the west.

The best I can do is suggest that of 206 built it would have been more likely than not that one of the Axis units involved would have had and used one.

Additional support is given by the fact that a number were used (and captured by the Americans) during the later Ardennes Offensive showing that they were certainly in the area.

No doubt there is some record somewhere, but for me at least these aren't as readily available for something like a Radschlepper as they might be for a front line fighting vehicle.

By way of back-story. I intend the Radschlepper was abandoned by the Germans initially pushed back at Eindhoven. It was later pressed into service as an agricultural vehicle by the local population, and the model will be depicted circa 1952.

Any good?????
MikeyBugs95
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New York, United States
Joined: May 27, 2013
KitMaker: 2,207 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2014 - 08:41 AM UTC
M4A1's weren't used were they?
66fastback
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Oregon, United States
Joined: June 20, 2013
KitMaker: 65 posts
Armorama: 61 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2014 - 08:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Andy
If you can verify that a unit was using that somewhere along the line of the route, or was based close to any of the fighting I accept. A bit of research and you might find one was involved.



Pete



Hi guys

I'm drawing a blank on finding records of a Radschlepper assigned to one of the units along the MG route.

One thing I can say is that of the 206 built, the vast majority were allocated to units on the western front between northern France, through Belgium and into Holland.The Radschlepper was found to be unsuitable for it's intended use on the eastern front and it simply wasn't needed in Czechoslovakia and Poland where the roads tended to be slightly better than Russia. Hence it's assignment to the west.

The best I can do is suggest that of 206 built it would have been more likely than not that one of the Axis units involved would have had and used one.

Additional support is given by the fact that a number were used (and captured by the Americans) during the later Ardennes Offensive showing that they were certainly in the area.

No doubt there is some record somewhere, but for me at least these aren't as readily available for something like a Radschlepper as they might be for a front line fighting vehicle.

By way of back-story. I intend the Radschlepper was abandoned by the Germans initially pushed back at Eindhoven. It was later pressed into service as an agricultural vehicle by the local population, and the model will be depicted circa 1952.

Any good?????




This is just my best guess; The soil in the Netherlands and around "Market and Garden" operation area's where to soft for this vehicle to be useful. Remember that one of the many reasons 30th core was running behind was that they had to stick to the narrow roads in Holland. of the roads they got bogged down in mud. Also I'm almost certain that a German specialty truck like that would have ended up in the Museum at Overloon at one point. I did a tremendous amount of reading, tours and research on battles in my home country but never run into any proof they have been there so far.

Eric
66fastback
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Oregon, United States
Joined: June 20, 2013
KitMaker: 65 posts
Armorama: 61 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2014 - 08:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey everybody!

I want to do a diorama depicting one of the schwere Panzerabteilung 506's King Tigers (3rd company) during the battle around Elst, so I just picked up this guy:



I might have to wait until next February to start (it's usually kinda hairy during the semester) but I'm looking forward to this campaign!

See you,

Jerry



Jerry

Are you revering to this unit?

http://www.defendingarnhem.com/schpzkphummel.htm

They "only" had tiger 1's, the schwere Panzerabteilung 506 had king tigers but Hummel joined that unit after the Arnhem battles.

Eric
Blackstoat
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: October 15, 2012
KitMaker: 564 posts
Armorama: 559 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2014 - 10:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Andy
If you can verify that a unit was using that somewhere along the line of the route, or was based close to any of the fighting I accept. A bit of research and you might find one was involved.



Pete



Hi guys

I'm drawing a blank on finding records of a Radschlepper assigned to one of the units along the MG route.

One thing I can say is that of the 206 built, the vast majority were allocated to units on the western front between northern France, through Belgium and into Holland.The Radschlepper was found to be unsuitable for it's intended use on the eastern front and it simply wasn't needed in Czechoslovakia and Poland where the roads tended to be slightly better than Russia. Hence it's assignment to the west.

The best I can do is suggest that of 206 built it would have been more likely than not that one of the Axis units involved would have had and used one.

Additional support is given by the fact that a number were used (and captured by the Americans) during the later Ardennes Offensive showing that they were certainly in the area.

No doubt there is some record somewhere, but for me at least these aren't as readily available for something like a Radschlepper as they might be for a front line fighting vehicle.

By way of back-story. I intend the Radschlepper was abandoned by the Germans initially pushed back at Eindhoven. It was later pressed into service as an agricultural vehicle by the local population, and the model will be depicted circa 1952.

Any good?????




This is just my best guess; The soil in the Netherlands and around "Market and Garden" operation area's where to soft for this vehicle to be useful. Remember that one of the many reasons 30th core was running behind was that they had to stick to the narrow roads in Holland. of the roads they got bogged down in mud. Also I'm almost certain that a German specialty truck like that would have ended up in the Museum at Overloon at one point. I did a tremendous amount of reading, tours and research on battles in my home country but never run into any proof they have been there so far.

Eric



Thanks for your advice Eric - but you're not helping ;-)
canismalus
#465
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: September 12, 2014
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 362 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2014 - 11:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hey everybody!

I want to do a diorama depicting one of the schwere Panzerabteilung 506's King Tigers (3rd company) during the battle around Elst, so I just picked up this guy:



I might have to wait until next February to start (it's usually kinda hairy during the semester) but I'm looking forward to this campaign!

See you,

Jerry



Jerry

Are you revering to this unit?

http://www.defendingarnhem.com/schpzkphummel.htm

They "only" had tiger 1's, the schwere Panzerabteilung 506 had king tigers but Hummel joined that unit after the Arnhem battles.

Eric



Hi Eric -

I meant this unit:

http://www.defendingarnhem.com/schpzabt506.htm

You're right - s.Pz.Kp. Hummel only joined schwere Panzerabteilung 506 in November '44, but two companies of the 506 also took part in Market Garden - the 2nd company in Oosterbeek and the 3rd company in and around Elst. They didn't do too terribly well in the narrow streets of Oosterbeek, like the article says.

For our purposes, anyway, that means we can do Tiger Is AND IIs - the more the merrier!

Take care,

Jerry
canismalus
#465
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: September 12, 2014
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 362 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2014 - 11:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Andy
If you can verify that a unit was using that somewhere along the line of the route, or was based close to any of the fighting I accept. A bit of research and you might find one was involved.



Pete



Hi guys

I'm drawing a blank on finding records of a Radschlepper assigned to one of the units along the MG route.

One thing I can say is that of the 206 built, the vast majority were allocated to units on the western front between northern France, through Belgium and into Holland.The Radschlepper was found to be unsuitable for it's intended use on the eastern front and it simply wasn't needed in Czechoslovakia and Poland where the roads tended to be slightly better than Russia. Hence it's assignment to the west.

The best I can do is suggest that of 206 built it would have been more likely than not that one of the Axis units involved would have had and used one.

Additional support is given by the fact that a number were used (and captured by the Americans) during the later Ardennes Offensive showing that they were certainly in the area.

No doubt there is some record somewhere, but for me at least these aren't as readily available for something like a Radschlepper as they might be for a front line fighting vehicle.

By way of back-story. I intend the Radschlepper was abandoned by the Germans initially pushed back at Eindhoven. It was later pressed into service as an agricultural vehicle by the local population, and the model will be depicted circa 1952.

Any good?????




This is just my best guess; The soil in the Netherlands and around "Market and Garden" operation area's where to soft for this vehicle to be useful. Remember that one of the many reasons 30th core was running behind was that they had to stick to the narrow roads in Holland. of the roads they got bogged down in mud. Also I'm almost certain that a German specialty truck like that would have ended up in the Museum at Overloon at one point. I did a tremendous amount of reading, tours and research on battles in my home country but never run into any proof they have been there so far.

Eric



Thanks for your advice Eric - but you're not helping ;-)



Hi Andy -

I unfortunately know very little about the Radschlepper but I found this book just now:

http://www.capub.wbs.cz/Army-Wheels.html

and it contains this color plate:



Yup, another reference to that vast and extremely well-equipped Unknown Unit that DML has made so famous.



This is a pretty skimpy lead and I don't know if it helps, but maybe this book provides good documentation of the Radschlepper in Holland.

Take care,

Jerry
canismalus
#465
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: September 12, 2014
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 362 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2014 - 11:44 PM UTC
Obviously I still have to get the hang of posting images - sorry.

Here's where I found the image I wanted to post (it's picture number 4):

http://www.zinnfigur.com/product_info.php?cPath=7_1332_1405_1413&products_id=10191255&osCsid=t90mvdinu7allb0prshdgl85v2

Jerry


Blackstoat
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: October 15, 2012
KitMaker: 564 posts
Armorama: 559 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 14, 2014 - 06:20 AM UTC
Thanks Jerry.

I'd seen that one, the pics seem to suggest it's ideally suited to Holland

?
noddy927
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,235 posts
Armorama: 566 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 14, 2014 - 06:26 AM UTC
Welcome aboard Jerry, Paul and Matt.
Andy if there are no objections before start day I will allow it as it can be neither proved or unproved whether it was involved.

3 days to go guys. Check them chutes and rev those engines.

Pete

Andy I prefer it is an operational depiction as after the war would be outwith the group build, cheers
Blackstoat
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: October 15, 2012
KitMaker: 564 posts
Armorama: 559 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 14, 2014 - 08:09 AM UTC
Top banana!

Thanks Pete
canismalus
#465
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: September 12, 2014
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 362 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2014 - 10:31 PM UTC
Hey everybody -

Eric has kindly alerted me to the fact that the Tiger IIs of the 506. schwere Panzerabteilung didn't see action in Elst until AFTER September 25th. I took a look at Marcel Zwarts book on German armor in Arnhem (ummmm, maybe I should have double-checked before ) and they weren't committed to the battle in Elst until October 1st.

This means I'll have to either switch companies and put my Tiger II in Oosterbeek (where they saw action on Sept. 25th) or switch vehicles entirely and do a Panther G of 1./SS-Pz.Rgt. 10/Kampfgruppe Knaust, which arrived in Arnhem on September 21. Either way, I'll decide before this show gets on the road tomorrow.

Jerry
AlanL
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,487 posts
Armorama: 11,670 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2014 - 10:38 PM UTC
Hi folks,

I'm going to kick off my entry with a couple of the new Blackdog Paratroopers.



Cheers

Al
MikeyBugs95
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New York, United States
Joined: May 27, 2013
KitMaker: 2,207 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 - 10:18 AM UTC
I'd like to do a Smer Piper L-4 but I have no idea if they were used during Market-Garden. Can anyone enlighten me on this? Also M4 Shermans... Were they used by the Allied side during this?
Nito74
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
ARMORAMA
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Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: March 04, 2008
KitMaker: 5,378 posts
Armorama: 4,721 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 12:56 PM UTC
Ok everyone !!!
Good to go !!

Kitmaker Gallery for Finished Builds: HERE !!!

Have Fun !!!!!!!!!!
Bluestab
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South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,148 posts
Armorama: 1,905 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 04:15 PM UTC
Starter pictures. It's Tamiya's "forced recon" boxing of their 1/35 Universal Carrier. Hopefully the date verification is okay. It's todaysdate.com.





I've built this kit a few times and the molding still look pretty good considering their age. It should be a pretty quick build. Now I just have to decide which set of markings to use. Started assembly earlier today and should have an update this weekend.
MikeyBugs95
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New York, United States
Joined: May 27, 2013
KitMaker: 2,207 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 05:50 PM UTC
This is starting to annoy me.. Does anybody have an answer for my two questions?

Was the M4A1 used in Market-Garden?
And was the Piper L-4 used in Market-Garden?

Were any of these used during the Battle of Arnhem at all?
canismalus
#465
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: September 12, 2014
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 362 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 07:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

This is starting to annoy me.. Does anybody have an answer for my two questions?

Was the M4A1 used in Market-Garden?
And was the Piper L-4 used in Market-Garden?

Were any of these used during the Battle of Arnhem at all?



Hi Michael -

I'd guess nobody answered you because the site was offline for a while yesterday, but I'll try to answer your question.

To the best of my knowledge, no American armored units took part in Market Garden, but of course the British XXX Corps used lots of Shermans. By that point in the war I think they were mostly using the Sherman III (M4A2) and the V (M4A4) but it's possible a few IIs (M4A1) were there too - maybe some of you Sherman experts want to chime in......?

And about the Piper Cub, I found this D-Day airshow site:

http://www.sbap.be/events/2014/023ddaydux2014/023ddaydux2014.htm

If you scroll down the page to the picture of the L-4, it talks about the father of the guy flying it, who flew with the 456th Parachute Field Artillery Battalion, one of three parachute artillery battalions that belonged to the 82nd Airborne (the 101st had these PFA battalions as well), and they also flew during Market Garden, but not at Arnhem, which was the British 1st Airborne's sector.

I hope this helps.

Jerry
canismalus
#465
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: September 12, 2014
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 362 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 07:26 PM UTC
Hey guys -

I'm going to stick with the King Tiger, one from the 3rd Company of the 506th s.Pz.Abt. in Oosterbeek. I decided against a Panther because Dave announced he was doing a G a few months back.

I'm looking forward to the builds!

Jerry