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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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WWII German Weapon ID?
justsendit
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Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 11:13 PM UTC
Thanks Frenchy!

That really helps to clarify matters. In addition, the jerry can rack detail on the fender shows up very nicely in that particular image — been looking for that — bonus!

Santé!
—mike
erichvon
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Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 12:16 AM UTC
Mike, just noticed this thread but you've already sorted it. The MG is an MG34 not a 42. In regards to the Panzerbusche they stayed in use throughout the war even though they were outdated as they had other uses as well as an AT rifle. Some were shortened and the bipod moved to the base of the barrel and adapted to fire rifle grenades which was an unusual development but everyone knows what the Germans were like for modifying stuff. You've only got to look at how many incarnations there were on the Panzer IV chassis.
justsendit
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Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 06:47 AM UTC
Hi Karl,
I have read about those mods in my earlier searches and I'm fairly certain now that the PzB 39 in the photo is the earlier (long barrel) version. And yes ... MG34s.

I've got most of the elements for this build rounded-up on the workbench. Now I just need to get busy and resume slinging styrene again.

Thanks for having a look!
—mike
Dioramartin
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Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 05:53 PM UTC
Thanks Mike,

you said it, a very dry wit er heat. So when you're finished let me know, I can send you a packet of 100% genuine Bondi beach sand (accept no substitutes) to chuck over it, it's only a mile or so from here & surf's up.
And I have to ask - in that shot Frenchy sent is that a Kriegsmarine officer in the front seat?? If so he's a long way from the poop deck. Prost!
justsendit
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Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 09:00 PM UTC
Tim,
Right about now, I’d happily trade your surf for one very hot Colorado heat wave. The heat has been blazing out here! ☀️

Kriegsmarine ... not. I wondered about that too. So I referred back to Frenchy’s link and dropped the caption for the image into Google Translate. I believe the guy in the front seat is sporting a Luftwaffe Officer Summer White Top.

So I guess officers didn’t need to soak their caps in gasoline in order to lighten them like the DAK troops were known to do. Regardless, that guy is not going for a ride-along in my Horch Land Barge!

Cheers!
—mike
justsendit
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Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 01:32 AM UTC
Hi guys,

Seems like I’ve been asleep at the wheel lately, as heat and poor health have been making it impossible to sit at the workbench. No real progress to report at the moment — just thought I’d throw a splash of Styrene onto the page to spice things up a bit. Here you go — a few different angles of the W(stalled)IP.




Jabo eye-view!


Please keep in mind, this is still a rather wonky dry-fit since it’s too delicate to try and match the body to the frame correctly at this stage.

Thanks for having a look!
—mike
Dioramartin
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Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 04:36 PM UTC
Hey Mike,

Sounds like you’re suffering, get cool & get well soon. It’s still winter here – hard to imagine I know – so if you were dreaming of jumping into this side of the Pacific right now you’d also have to give up any prospect of future human reproduction. Although the Bondi shark-baiters say the water temperature’s warmer than air. ..just shows what they’re smokin’.

Land-barge’s looking good, although I kept leaning to the left looking at the front-on shot - got a nice drift going there, glue or no glue. - yeah I woke up 5 seconds after posting last message, duh of course he’s a flieger. Flicking through my ancient Panzer Colors vol 1 I was curious at Culver’s apparent obsession with captioning DAK vehicles as “Dark Gray covered in mud” when most seem to me so obviously DAK yellow covered in dust (?) Not my speciality so I’m going to run away now, Cry Havoc and release the Dogs of Dunkelgelb…


justsendit
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Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 - 11:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

… Not my speciality so I’m going to run away now, Cry Havoc and release the Dogs of Dunkelgelb…


I’m no expert either, but Isn’t the Styrene already the correct color? I can just leave the Horch unpainted … right? Drunkelgelb!

Still been wondering about that object in the center of the radiator grill. However, I’m somewhat convinced now that it is a lucky key. I might just force my theory if I don’t find anything to the contrary. … Thanks for opening that can of worms!

Cheers!
—mike
Dioramartin
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 04:10 PM UTC
You’re welcome! Drunkelgelb’s a masterstroke - with a grun-olive on the side & a rot-braun parasol.

Yet another thought about that radiator – could it be just a ding reflecting the sun, associated with the obvious front wing damage? I’m looking at the black-dot shadow (?) at the top of the thingy, as though it’s dented in. Or it could just be a nail/screw holding the object onto the grille. Whatever, as long as yours looks like the original it can be whatever the viewer thinks it is. Talking of obsessive hallucinations, every time I look at that bare front right brake cable I see a big black SS officer’s hat resting in the wheel arch. Weird, make mine a treble

Cheers, Tim
justsendit
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 02:36 AM UTC
Not a lot to show, but here’s the scoop anyway …

A little PE work, and some small scratch additions/repairs to the chassis and engine compartment.



Next, figure positions are set. Everyone is glued to their seat (cushion, that is) and can be moved around as an assembly, thus making handling much easier. With those guys out of the way, I can start to concentrate on bringing all of the Horch's sub-assemblies together. In addition, I hope to slap some putty onto the four Amigos soon.

Bond! ... don't push that ejector-button!

Cheers!🍺
—mike


PS:
Quoted Text

Talking of obsessive hallucinations, every time I look at that bare front right brake cable I see a big black SS officer’s hat resting in the wheel arch. Weird, make mine a treble.


Now that you mention it! Lol! 🤣
Dioramartin
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 04:37 PM UTC
Looking good Mike – nice to see you’re back on the er wagon even if those guys aren’t. Tough gig if they’re going to get putty-slapped – why so, are they going to be Obesebanfuhrers or just getting their joints fixed?
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 05:55 PM UTC
[quote]Hi all,
Can anyone identify the weapons being held in this Afrika Korps image — especially the middle one? I’m guessing it's a sniper or anti-tank rifle of some sort. Any additional information about the crew in the foreground Horch would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance.

Here's ANOTHER possibility as regards to the Anti-tank Rifle-

Check out:

The Swiss Solothurn S-18/100 Anti-tank Rifle, which was a 20mm weapon. A number of these were purchased from the Swiss by the German Army. This weapon has a narrow Flash Hider and a Bi-pod, very similar to the weapon shown in the initial photos of this thread.

BTW- Not to be a "know-it-all"... "HORCH" is not spelled "HORSCH", nor is it pronounced that way; it is pronounced "HORKH", with a "hard H" for the first letter, (as in "Hay" or "House"), and a "soft "H", (with the tongue positioned very near to the roof of the mouth), for the last two letters, "CH", as would be heard in the German "ACH"-exclamation... "HORCH", BTW, is the German word for "Listen"- "Zum horchen", means "To listen...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 07:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

… Not my speciality so I’m going to run away now, Cry Havoc and release the Dogs of Dunkelgelb…


I’m no expert either, but Isn’t the Styrene already the correct color? I can just leave the Horch unpainted … right? Drunkelgelb!

Still been wondering about that object in the center of the radiator grill. However, I’m somewhat convinced now that it is a lucky key. I might just force my theory if I don’t find anything to the contrary. … Thanks for opening that can of worms!



Cheers!
—mike





DUNKELGELB in Africa? I'm not very sure about that- Maybe someone can enlighten me...

Various other "Yellow-sh", "Gray-ish", "Green-ish" and "Brown-ish" colors were used in Africa by the Germans- For what it's worth:

In 1941:

RAL 8000 Gruenbraun (Green-Brown)
RAL 7008 Gruengrau (Green-Gray)

In 1942:

RAL 8020 Gelbbraun (Yellow-Brown)
RAL 7027 Sandgrau (Sand-Gray)

DUNKELGELB didn't make an appearance until February of 1943, when shipments of German equipment to Africa was at a virtual stand-still. This was when the German Army (HEER) and Waffen SS switched to the ever-popular "Tri-color" camouflage scheme:

In February, 1943

RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb (Dark Yellow Factory Base-coat))
RAL 6003 Olivgruen (Olive Green)
RAL 8017 Schokoladenbraun (Chocolate Brown)

In August, 1944- "Ambush Pattern"- The colors were applied as above, but with "counter-spotting" or dappling in contrastic colors, usually DUNKELGELB, applied over the three basic camo colors

In October, 1944

RAL 8012 Dark Red Primer Factory Base-coat, with the following colors applied in disruptive patterns OVER the Dark Red Primer:

RAL 6003 Olivgruen
RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb
RAL 7021 Schwarzgrau (Black-Gray)

In November, 1944, the RAL 7021 Schwarzgrau was deleted, and RAL 6003 Olivgruen became the Factory Base-coat, with RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb, and RAL 8017 Schokoladenbraun coming back into general use. The latter two colors were applied over the RAL 6003 Olivgruen Factory base-coat, once again, in disruptive patterns. The earlier Dark Gray colors, prior to the "Tri-color" camo scheme were as follows:

In 1935-1939:

RAL 7016 Anthrazitgrau (Anthracite Gray)
RAL 8002 Signalbraun (Signal Gray), applied over the RAL 7016 in a disruptive pattern.

In 1940:

RAL 7021 Schwarzgrau (Black-Gray)

I won't go into a discussion about the various "white-washes" and White Pastes that the Germans applied to their vehicles in winter-time, as that is a subject that would require at least several pages of text...

(Sorry, I STILL can't figure out how to make "umlauts" on my keyboard... )

Not to be argumentative, but during RAL 7021's tenure, ALL manner of splotches and patterns of mud were applied (dust notwithstanding), to help the dark paint blend in with the surrounding territory, and that includes Africa. This was done A LOT in Africa, and I don't recall seeing Culver making an obsession out of "Mud over Dark Gray"- I have all three of the SQUADRON "Panzer Colors" books...

German camo schemes are as varied as they are complicated, so I hope that I didn't waste too much of your time in this thread...
justsendit
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 12:58 AM UTC
Thanks Tim,
Two of the same figure sets MiniArt (35163) and four Hornet Heads were required to Franken-figure the four Amigos. Many huge gaps remain to be filled and sanded, as well as undercutting detail to follow.

Hi Dennis,
Holy color/colour information overload! "Drunkelgelb" was just meant to be tongue-in-cheek! When/if I ever get around to painting/dusting, it won’t be perfect, but hopefully the scheme will look okay.

I believe “Horsch" was just a typo in Tim's reply. Meine Mutter is German (deceased); she would have corrected him sternly.

As far as the weapon IDs, take a look at the earlier posts and you'll see that info. has been sorted out already. I've got the Panzerbusche built and there's no turning back now. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

To make "umlauts" (ü) ... press the ‘option/alt’ key, type ‘u,’ let go and type 'u' again. That’s how it works on a Mac anyway.

Thanks for having a look!

—mike
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 01:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Tim,
Two of the same figure sets were required MiniArt (35163) — lots of FrankenFiguring and four Hornet Heads. Many gaps remain to be filled as well as undercutting detail to follow.

Hi Dennis,
Holy color/colour information overload! "Drunkelgelb" was just meant to be tongue-in-cheek! When/if I ever get around to painting/dusting, it won’t be perfect, but hopefully the scheme will look okay.

I believe “Horsch" was just a typo in Tim's reply. Meine Mutter is German (deceased); she would have corrected him sternly.

As far as the weapon IDs, take a look at the earlier posts and you'll see that info. has been sorted out already. I've got the Panzerbusche built and there's no turning back now. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

PS: To make "umlauts" (ü) ... press the ‘option/alt’ key, type ‘u,’ let go and type 'u' again. That’s how it works on a Mac anyway.

Thanks for having a look!

—mike



I hear that, as far as the German language goes, but my Mom corrected me gently, as was true to her nature- So did my Dad, when we were speaking Ukrainian... As far as my umlauts go, I tried your way on my Microsoft keyboard- NO GO... (sigh)

"DRUNKELGELB" I LIKE THAT- Henceforth, I will use "DRUNKELGELB" just to piss off the "Panzer-Heads"!!!

I'm going to use the "familiar" form- Deine Mutter war Deutsche? Meine, auch! Mein Vater war Ukrainer!

DON'T ask me to recite "The Gettysburg Address" in German or Ukrainian- I could only go so far without having to look up the proper German or Ukrainian words for certain words in that short English-language speech of Abraham Lincoln's...
justsendit
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 01:17 AM UTC
LOL!!!
Dioramartin
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 02:44 PM UTC
Ich muss richtig schreiben HORCH
Ich muss richtig schreiben HORCH
Ich muss richtig schreiben HORCH

M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 03:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ich muss richtig schreiben HORCH
Ich muss richtig schreiben HORCH
Ich muss richtig schreiben HORCH






At least we can have fun with it!
Dioramartin
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 04:09 PM UTC
Damn right, Mike's inventing colours AND putty-slapping with a mask on. Where else could this happen?
justsendit
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Posted: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 06:22 AM UTC
Hi guys,
I’ve been off the radar for a while because of health crap — enough about that for now — just feels good to finally get some bench-time in. So here’s what’s been going on with the build as of my last post.

I scratch-built the fender rack using Evergreen .060” Angle Styrene. However, the .014” thickness had to be shaved and the width needed to be trimmed in order to achieve a closer-to-scale appearance. This assembly took forever and pushed my scratch-building abilities to a whole new level! I know, I know ... the PE guys could have soldered this up in no time at all! 😖



Note: The thick Styrene block is merely a temporary dry-fit jig.


In addition, I addressed all of the body to chassis alignment wonkiness and I’m pleased with the outcome — it’s actually gonna’ sit right! No updates on the figures just yet. I’ll need to adjust my mindset for those guys.

Stay tuned! 📺

—mike

PS: Thanks again, H.P. for the image containing the fender rack on page 1, it was most instrumental in furthering my madness!
brekinapez
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Posted: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 06:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text


... As far as my umlauts go, I tried your way on my Microsoft keyboard- NO GO... (sigh)




Hold down the ALT key and type 0252 and you'll get ü
justsendit
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Posted: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 06:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hold down the ALT key and type 0252 and you'll get ü


Meine Mutter wäre glücklich gewesen!
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 11:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Thanks again, H.P. for the image containing the fender rack on page 1, it was most instrumental in furthering my madness!



You're most welcome Mike Keep on the good work !

H.P.
Bonaparte84
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Posted: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 03:35 PM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text

Hi all,
BTW- Not to be a "know-it-all"... "HORCH" is not spelled "HORSCH", nor is it pronounced that way; it is pronounced "HORKH", with a "hard H" for the first letter, (as in "Hay" or "House"), and a "soft "H", (with the tongue positioned very near to the roof of the mouth), for the last two letters, "CH", as would be heard in the German "ACH"-exclamation... "HORCH", BTW, is the German word for "Listen"- "Zum horchen", means "To listen...



All but one thing you said is correct: the "CH" in "HORCH" is not pronounced like in "ACH" or "ACHTUNG", but in rather similar way than "SCH" or the English "SH", only with the tongue more pressed against the palate.

See examples of pronounciation here (for the infinitive "horchen"):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/De-horchen2.ogg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/De-horchen.ogg

The "HORCH" in question here is the imperative form of "horchen", meaning "LISTEN!".

Fun fact: The famous car brand "Audi" is the Latin translation of "Horch", chosen on purpose after the founder of the Horch company had to leave the company, lost a trademark dispute and founded another a new car company...

BTW: Nice job in the model
Dioramartin
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Posted: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 04:11 PM UTC
Hi Mike,

welcome back & glad to hear you’re better-er – I’ve missed the frotzelei almost as much as the H-O-R-C-H. Chassis looks well de-wonked, and …nice rack!

PS thanks Nick for vindicating my phonetically correct Cherman



Cheers, Tim