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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Camo covers on early Tiger tanks
Taeuss
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Posted: Friday, December 23, 2016 - 11:45 PM UTC
I am very interested in finding any info or pics depicting the canvas covers that the Germans used briefly in North Africa on Tiger 1s that made them (sort of) look like trucks from a (great) distance. Anyone have anything?
Byrden
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Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2016 - 01:28 AM UTC
Where are you getting your information about this, please?

David
Headhunter506
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Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2016 - 01:38 AM UTC
Some old and incorrect information about the purpose of the holes found on the edges of the upper glacis plate was that they were used to hold camouflage poles which supported a tarp over the driver and radio operator hatches. According to what I remember regarding this info, the tarp was supposedly used to imitate a truck cab and create the illusion that the Tigers were trucks, not tanks. Fully tracked trucks with large turrets and gun barrels.....right.....that'll fool'em.....Go figure.
Biggles2
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Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2016 - 04:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Fully tracked trucks with large turrets and gun barrels.....right.....that'll fool'em.....Go figure.



Why not? The British did the same. (But not with Tiger tanks)
Headhunter506
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Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2016 - 07:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Fully tracked trucks with large turrets and gun barrels.....right.....that'll fool'em.....Go figure.



Why not? The British did the same. (But not with Tiger tanks)



One of the Forgotten Secrets of WWII:

The truck disguise wasn't too effective. Monty (-gomery, not -batten) thought that, since British tanks in that theater of operation were quite toy-like when compared to German equipment, he would adopt King's Own Clipped Wing Hussars Leftenant Goumelet Fabrasham-Argyle-Throckmorton-Mountesque-Smythe's (VC, KCIE, CH, LVO, KH, KP, KT, OBE, DSC, PDQ IOU) sublimely ingenious solution:



PanzerKarl
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Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2016 - 08:12 AM UTC


Taeuss
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Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2016 - 01:47 AM UTC
Cool picture, but what -if anything- does it mean in regards to my question concerning the camp tarp that purportedly was used on Tigers in North Africa?
Taeuss
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Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2016 - 01:53 AM UTC
That's exactly what I'm referring to and I've seen the rather elaborate came skins that the British used, but never saw the German attempt at disguising a Tiger so that -from a distance and if you didn't look too carefully- like a large half-track or truck. I planned on turning the turret to the rear so that the barrel wouldn't show and some kind of canvas cover tools like a truck bed cover and have something different to show besides a OD Tiger or something else weird.
Byrden
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Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2016 - 04:41 PM UTC
I've seen hundreds of photos of African Tigers. Never have I noticed a Tiger with this mythical tarpaulin cover. Of course, it might have looked exactly like a truck, and that would explain why I missed it.

I've never seen an Olive Drab Tiger either.

David
Taeuss
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Posted: Monday, December 26, 2016 - 05:06 AM UTC
That was my point, David, the silly ideas that creep into the minds of many: claims of OD Tigers ("They were painted with captured US paint stocks...") or the myth concerning the "Hundreds" of Tigers lost at Kursk, or during the Battle of the Bulge, etc. I've heard of these canvas covers, purportedly by 501 and/or 503 in North Africa, for YEARS and have met at least two people who insist that they've seen pics of the same. Unfortunately no one can recall just where they saw these pics. I would like to see this or put it to rest. I'm planning on doing a dio of this and would like to know if it was or if it wasn't -or if it was actually a one-off. Could be cool...
Headhunter506
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Posted: Monday, December 26, 2016 - 07:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That was my point, David, the silly ideas that creep into the minds of many: claims of OD Tigers ("They were painted with captured US paint stocks...")



Every schoolboy knows that there weren't any OD Tigers painted with captured U.S stocks. It's a well known fact that Martin Paints didn't open its first Tunisian store until 1948:




Quoted Text

I've heard of these canvas covers, purportedly by 501 and/or 503 in North Africa, for YEARS and have met at least two people who insist that they've seen pics of the same. Unfortunately no one can recall just where they saw these pics.



Whoever these two individuals are....they're LIARS!!!!!!!! LIARS, you hear? L-I-A-R-S....LIARS!!!!!!!!!! "I can't recall" is the favorite fall back line used by Mafia defendants during a RICO investigation and greasy witnesses with pencil moustaches (and who look like they combed their hair with buttered toast) ready to get tripped up by Perry Mason just before admitting they LIED about a specific piece of testimony which will expose their guilt.

BTW, s.Pz.Abt. 503 was never anywhere near North Africa.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Monday, December 26, 2016 - 09:19 AM UTC
Why does it have to be a Tiger? Grants, Crusaders, Stuarts, Shermans all had the fake tilt, but it has to be a Tiger. But it has been DEFINITIVELY determined it NEVER EVER existed on a Tiger except in some fevered imaginations. (Who were probably conflating numerous pictures of British vehicles with the token Tiger picture every book on armored warfare has to have)

Besides it was always Dark green Tigers painted from captured RAF stocks. Because somewhere the Germans overran an air field and the Tiger shows up so the two must be connected. Get your rumors and conflated false memories right.

Somebody should do a book on armor modeling myths.
ericadeane
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Posted: Monday, December 26, 2016 - 10:00 AM UTC
Well Frank: here's what you know: British tanks rec'd fake truck camo covers in N Africa. No photos or any documentation has ever arisen about ANY Tigers (they were SO numerous in Africa, right?) having any sort of contraption.

Frankly, can anyone point to any sort of similar contraption for even German medium tanks?

And you have some eye-witnesses -- yet they're probably remembering the British vehicles and probably never even saw an actual Tiger in theater.

Given all this, I think the claim is clearly a myth unless solid evidence emerges to contradict it.
Taeuss
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Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 03:29 AM UTC
Thanks! You're all probably right (some more than others, re: paint shop, RAF paint stocks, etc) but it would have made some sense when you think about it...can anyone definitively (David?...) tell me what the large circles on the top of the front fenders was for then? Cover conspiracy folk claim that that was the mount for this non-existent cover.
RLlockie
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Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 03:43 AM UTC
A portable jib for lifting off the sprocket, as I recall. Someone posted a contemporary illustration of it ages ago unless I'm mistaken (which is highly possible).
Headhunter506
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Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 05:19 AM UTC
You're not mistaken, Robert.



If you notice, the sprocket arms are aligned with the outer bolts.
Byrden
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Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 12:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

If you notice, the sprocket arms are aligned with the outer bolts.



No they're not. Optical illusion. Look at the left side.

David
Taeuss
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Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 01:36 AM UTC
Thank you one and all for this informative discussion and I have learned considerable. While it is a shame about the apparent lack of a truck-style camo cover for North African Tigers (darned!) it was great to finally have a definitive answer to what those holes in the front fenders were used for (a mobile jib. All in all a good day and discussion when you put to bed a long-festering rumour and learn something new. Thanks all!
TopSmith
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Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 05:47 AM UTC
Well not to kill an idea, why not have a tent constructed over part of the tiger for some out of the sun repairs. I know that is what I did when in the desert.
Taeuss
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Posted: Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 02:21 AM UTC
Thanks for the advice. Personally I think that I'll make up something as a one-off that some enterprising Tiger crew constructed from -ironically- the canvas covers that the British 8th Army used to make their AFVs look like Bedfords, etc. All in fun and games speculation. If it come out well I'll try and post the photos for your speculative amusement!
JPTRR
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RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2018 - 04:59 AM UTC
As usual I am late to this post party. Very interesting information. I enjoy these discussions although I do miss my OD Tigers!

[quoute]Somebody should do a book on armor modeling myths.[/quote]I'm not sure there is enough bandwidth to write it!
Taeuss
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Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2018 - 08:59 AM UTC
Hello Fred! Consider the party ongoing. In the time between the original post and now I came across more pics of British armour using elaborate collapsible covers to camouflage their tanks by making them (vaguely) resemble trucks. I decided "what the heck!" and built one for a Tiger on the premise that a captured cover was employed and plan on having it tow a fuel drum trailer to leave some odd tracks in the sand. Historically questionable but so was the idea that Tiger crews had the luxury of repainting their rides silly non-desert colours like RAF green. Oh ya, that'll blend in really good -at night time engagements. Anyways, if you come across anything to add shoot me a line!
AgentG
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Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2018 - 07:21 PM UTC
They did use camo netting.







G
mudcake
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Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2018 - 07:55 PM UTC
What about the panthers that were disguised as cows in Normandy?
Taeuss
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Posted: Sunday, November 25, 2018 - 09:44 AM UTC
Not terribly useful.