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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
BR 52 Kriegsdampflokomotive 1/35 Scratched
165thspc
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
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Posted: Sunday, November 04, 2018 - 01:20 AM UTC
Great work on the cab floor and the laterial frame bracing - man after my own heart!
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
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Posted: Monday, November 05, 2018 - 12:07 AM UTC
Thanks again.

Just got a an invite to inspect the 52 6666 including the tender (Steifrahmentender) in its intirety....
So I can take photos from within and underneath the locomotive and the tender K4T30 once I am in Berlin on Wednesday.....

Feel free to request stuff or photos... I will see what I can do. I got a steam locomotive driver with me who will show me around.

Cheers
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 10:12 AM UTC
Finally some progress.
Dry-fitting the first three of more than 1k bolts.


Drilling and bolting has begun.I have drilled the first 120+ frame holes. The frame consists of mostly bolt heads outside + nuts inside (sometimes reversed however), therefore for each hole=2 bolts/nuts-240/side i.e. 440 in total for both frame sides that could be added now. However, it is not that easy, as more symmetrical stuff needs to be drilled first.
I glued both frame parts together with scotch tape and as such it looks ugly and filthy^^. As soon as the last holes are drilled, I will remove the scotch tape, clean the parts and then smooth it all and add the bolts n nuts. Sizes vary between .6 and 1.4mm, but most are 1.2mm. I am using MasterClub products, easy to source and superb quality.



I have the amount of holes marked on this list and on the respective parts... quite a few more are missing.



A look at the basic frame parts and how much more drilling is needed to align all parts.



/Stefan

FYI, I have been invited to BW Berlin-Schöneweide and could roam around their steam locomotives.

BR 52 6666 walk around
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmqL8ztW

K4T30 Steifrahmentender walk around
https://flic.kr/s/aHskM7EiYL
More stuff and all my research may also be found there.

Enjoy
/Stefan
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
Armorama: 246 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 10:04 PM UTC
Good day,

I had a little styrene party with lots of thinner fumes as I had to rub and clean off all the scotch tape residue in my little cave... But for the first time since like 2016, the frame parts are now separated (see further down)!

To get the bolts for the frame ready, I have added and adjusted the journal box supports. The interior ones are 2.4*2.1 and as thick as the frame itself and 10 of them are needed. Without them, the sheet metal would tear due to the pressure and the indentations due to the cut outs for the axles (weakening the frame structure).

Drawn and scriped, let's get them.
Ohne Titel by Stefan, auf Flickr

All internal frame supports need to fit in between... So far all is fitting and I guess I cut correctly^^.


Exterior and interior supports, the exterior ones are far thinner.
[/url]

Cutting them into this basic shape (using the 52 6666 as an example:




Or the 52 8173-9 from below:


Once I adjust them into place and round them all up, they should be fine.



So in the end, they should all look like this, they yet need the support beams and the holes for the bolts. It is quite tricky now, doing all thinks on two different frame parts and paying attention to interior/exterior sides. I have also glued in place the exterior support bracket for the front most driving axle. Its needed in addition as the boiler support and cylinders are just in front of it.


I=Inside *O= outside I= inside the round circle below the axle cut out shows where the bars will attack that go from left to right in order to hold the journal boxes in place. To sow this I added a random piece of junk styrene to the Outside one (top).


You can spot the said bar here, with one of the two bolts (per side) visible to the right.:

I wish I had taken more photos when I was in Berlin.




Time to cut all these guys...


This is where we are at now. I have placed thick styrene to support the frame and to prevent it from bending. As it is heavy, thick and long, it tends to bends quickly and if it bends, I am in trouble.




Will see what I will get done today, the coffee machine is ready and loaded.

Prost,
/Stefan

HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 14, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 10:39 PM UTC
Hi Stef,
I presume you watched Babylon Berlin? O.K. the BEM BR 52 is totally wrong for the time. But what about the Kesselwagen? Would they fit the late 1920 period? Still wonder how they brought the train over from Soviet Union without changing the Breitspur to Regelspur?
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
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Posted: Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 11:14 PM UTC
HHB,
you have hosted all those pics on prime-portal haven't you?
I can't thank you enough for that! You got me hooked into all this with your albums, finally I can say thank you to you! Dankeschön:)

No, sadly I have not watched that series yet, was busy these last months... But I read about it, it received a few prizes and was in the FAZ quite often.

As to the moving of a wagon:
Maybe via truck after being shipped via cargo rail...? I have seen many tenders shipped via cargo rails. Then changing the trucks is not that difficult as there are tons of Wannentender trucks available for Regelspur. Hohenzollernbahn did this, and I think that the 52 6106's tender was also moved via rail wagon.

*

Cheers,
Stefan

Sources:
*Eisenbahnfreunde Hohenzollernbahn for example
Dioramartin
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 04, 2016
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Posted: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 - 01:38 AM UTC
Great work & scary complexity - what’s the game-plan for painting it - brush and/or airbrush?
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 - 12:53 PM UTC
Cheers Tim,
I will be spraying it, once I get anywhere near it, but this will take some time. I am almost done preparing the two frame sides and the interior support structure.
Ohne Titel by Stefan, auf Flickr

This took much longer than I have anticipated (also cause a few beers interrupted the process), but I have 650 holes drilled in the two frame sides as of now (and way more in all the supporting structure) and shortened about 1400 rivets and bolts. I can't add them in full length as I did in the photo below for the dry fitting, as I need to add the bolts from both sides and as such, all need to be cut to approx .3 to .5mm length, to fit into the frame, but not all the way through it. I have dry fitted the first part and added some bolts just to see if it was matching...

The above ones are the first 6 1,2mm hex bolts holding some interior frame support structure. There are so many connections and pars and such, I don't actually know how to go on from here. Way beyond my skill and knowledge level, now that I look at it, I should have simply built the kit and be done with it. Maybe I will glue it all in place on one side and then add all bolts n rivets before going on?

The frame resembles Swiss cheese by now and there are still about 30 holes per side to be drilled and added^^ (325 so far per side), most of them .8mm for the bigger (1.0 and 1,2mm), some .6mm for the smaller rivets and hex bolts (.8mm).




I used a basic rig (actually 3 of them, due to wear and tear) to get the 8 axle support structures (2* 2 rear and 2*2front axle sets) ready for bolting. The center ones needed a different rig, as they do have a few more bolts and the dimensions are different, the journal box cut out is a bit taller and wider here.

As can be seen, all of the interior support plates do still need some rigidity updates and some L frame addition for additional strength. The photo also shows some of the various bolt and rivet kinds used and deeded.

Now I am off wondering how to got on... and I don't know how.

Have a good one,
Stefan
27-1025
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 - 03:22 PM UTC
This build only gets better and better. Stunned by the amount of work you put into this.
Dioramartin
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 04, 2016
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Posted: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 - 11:21 PM UTC
Stef - I know exactly how you feel from my comparatively simple trams, there does come a point when obsessional accuracy must give way to pragmatism. It comes down to the question why we do this – to provide a representation of the real thing as accurately as skills/materials/time allows. However if there is no outward visual difference whether a nut actually has its bolt going through a panel or not, there are times when the nut should be just glued onto the panel. I know, I know, that’s heresy when you’ve done such amazing research and work on it but I think the tipping point comes when enjoyment (and the structure!) starts to fail & it ceases to be fun. Sometimes one has to bend the rules – I think your audience will be just as blown away knowing (say) 1,000 bolts run through the plates & they never need to know another (say) 200 were simulated.

On that subject I was wondering before at what point the structural integrity of heavily drilled plates gets compromised, I guess there must be some formulae for grades of steel (and plastic) where you mustn’t drill out more than x % of a given area/thickness, taking into account what pressure/weight will be acting on it. There must come a point where fatigue cracks start joining the holes together, and I’d imagine plastic has a quicker failure point (scaled equivalent) than steel so maybe your choice of materials is going to make that pragmatic decision for you!

Did I mention it's looking fantastic?
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 22, 2018 - 01:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This build only gets better and better. Stunned by the amount of work you put into this.



Thanks there, hopefully it will keep improving. It’s been extremely educative and was a lot of fun with all the research and museum visits,



Quoted Text

Stef - I know exactly how you feel from my comparatively simple trams, there does come a point when obsessional accuracy must give way to pragmatism. It comes down to the question why we do this – to [……] your choice of materials is going to make that pragmatic decision for you!

Did I mention it's looking fantastic?



Hmm true, no worries, I am not adding all in the interior, that would be another 1k or so 😂. But still, trying to get it kind of ok n real. I have learned so much along the way, so all is good . Thanks man.

/Stefan
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
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Posted: Sunday, November 25, 2018 - 02:51 AM UTC
Hi all,
For the fun of it, as I was adding some parts to other models just along the way, I thought I'd put it all in perspective. The locomotive is quite big compared to trucks, tanks and rail cars^^.
Ohne Titel by Stefan, auf Flickr

The Sd.Kfz. 251 looks so tiny next to it all.


Cheers,
have a good Sunday.
/Stefan
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
Armorama: 246 posts
Posted: Monday, November 26, 2018 - 08:54 AM UTC
Good day folks,

I have to share this amazing BR52 of a fellow modeler on another forum. Steve’s 52 is one of the best, if not the best I have seen so far.
Enjoy his work! He has added lights and stuff and it is not yet finessed (as can be seen with the wrong dry-fitting placement of the driving gear)











/Stefan
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
Armorama: 246 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - 04:05 AM UTC
Hi together,

While doing some further research regarding the rear and the ahs pan, I have done some work on the rivets and addedand glued in place the first 100 in total. But furst, some more alignment checks once the interior cross sections were attached to one another.


It's all square and fitting, so ready for the first rivets.


These are all MasterClub's 1.2mm sperical rivets (.8mm socket)


It looks like a porcupine before trimming all the excess material.
[/url]

The porcupine got cut and just to see how it looks like... The view from above, if the frame was ready... The vertical and horizontal supports are connected with 1.2mm hex bolts from above and hex nuts from below.

[/url]



More will be added tonight.
/Stefan
Dioramartin
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 04, 2016
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Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2018 - 10:55 PM UTC
Superb BR52 by Steve (surname) & great lighting (is there an orange one in the firebox too?) - yours is coming along great & I bow to your accurate drilling powers, you make it look easy but it’s the opposite
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
Armorama: 246 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2018 - 10:47 PM UTC
Tim,
Butler would be the surname. I encouraged him to post it here.
The orange light inside the firebox does actually flicker and looks amazing.

Well, it’s as good as I manage to do it. There are better scratch builders out there, but it’s a fun thing to do this.
Have a good day.
/Stefan
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
Armorama: 246 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2018 - 11:06 AM UTC
Hi all,
Minor progress with the frame and all the rivets, the first few hundred are there now.
I have begun adding the rivets to the rear of the first batch of rivets and have finished adding the rivets to the top of the frame support along with a few hex bolts.

Frame top rivets by Stefan

BR52 Frame rivets by Stefan

The top of the frame is almost done. It needs some more 1.2mm hex bolts and nuts, but all rivets are in place now.
BR52 Frame rivets by Stefan

I am waiting for the resupply from MasterClub, as I will run out of the 1.2mm rivets soon^^.

Hope you like it, have a good weekend modelling. The weather is awful here, so there should be some bench time tomorrow.
/Stefan
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
Armorama: 246 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 02:13 AM UTC
Thanks to HHB,
He sent me the voyager smoke deflectors set and I began comparing it with Eduards... For now, the raw dimensions of the two. I have not done any research with regards to the smoke deflectors yet, so can’t comment on any kind of accuracy and type. Thad will be part of a separate post with an in-depth analysis.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/blaubar/32466532848/
Vertical dotted lines represent the smoke box mountings for the strouds.
Thanks again HHB!
/STEFAN
HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 14, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 02:32 AM UTC
Hi Stef,

this document

http://eisenbahnfreunde.transnet-ffo.de/Priewisch/Baureihe%2052/Index_52.html

might give you information about the size of the Witte Windleitbleche.
HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 02:43 AM UTC
According to a drawing in " Kriegslokomotive 52" by Helmut Skasa, the Witte Blech is 1700mm long and 950mm in height.
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 04:37 AM UTC
One of them.
I know that there were 3 designs during the war and a few more thereafter. Mostly to do with the edges and the framing style, no clue if the sizes differed, but that will be some interesting research for the future.
165thspc
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 05:31 AM UTC
Speaking of smoke lifters in general, I have always been at a loss to understand just how they might actually function in the first place.

Most lifters have at least a bit of a wing shaped contour but it would seem to me to be oriented 90 degrees off axis from anything that would actually function to "lift smoke" and therefore improve the draw on the firebox.

Then too I thought perhaps there might be wind vanes or tubes attached between the lifter panel and the boiler to catch incoming horizontal winds when running at speed and channel them upwards - but again no to that explanation????

So how does, what appears to be a nonfunctional airfoil, actually lift smoke?
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 261 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 05:59 AM UTC
Michael,
Simplified speaking: by channeling and mildly compressing (creating an air cushion) the air on either side of the smoke box up front as it is “split” by the nose of the locomotive. They therefore prevent the steam from the cylinders and other parts of the lower engine to either go up and those of the chimney to go down and as such keep the view fairly free of smoke at higher speeds. It is not really that important at very low and lower speeds.
An engineer will be able to explain this in a more awesome and a bit more detailed with some maths n stuff😂
165thspc
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 06:45 AM UTC
I entirely see your point now - when the boiler front "splits" the airstream the lifters contain that airstream and an area of higher air pressure is created between the lifter and the side of the boiler.

As that increased air pressure disperses; up, down and to the rear, it blows the smoke up and the steam down keeping the engineer's vision clear.

I was incorrect in my thinking, in that the purpose of the lifter never was to increase the draw through the smoke stack, it was to improve vision.

If he wanted to increase the draw the engineer could always turn on the power blower to move more air through the firebox and up the stack!

That also answers another question I had as to why the lifters on the BR52 extend so far forward? On many US engines the lifter begins just slightly ahead of the front edge of the smokebox. The design used on the BR52 has to be much more efficient and functional.
Blaubar
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Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 06:55 AM UTC
Exactly!

Well, there is the research by Witte, it was posted on a German forum years ago but the link is now dead. The link had all the research with regards to sizes, arrangements and so forth of the 30s. Stupid as I was, I had not downloaded the pdf.
There might be wind tests about it? I will ask the curators at the museums in Germany and contact Meiningen RAW, someone might know more. The maths regarding the placement would be interesting.