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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Kingtiger 1/35th Buildlog
SDavies
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 972 posts
Armorama: 952 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:05 AM GMT+7
Hello All,

While I am waiting for paints and enamel washes to arrive to finish off my Stug 3 build I thought that I would start a thread on my latest build a Takom Kingtiger in 1/35th scale. Rather than being a normal straight out of the box build I will try and add all the super detailed features and additions that others have been building into their 1/16th Trumpeter kits.



For once resources will be plentiful and I will be using Super King: Building Trumpeter's 1:16th Scale King Tiger as a primary resource and studying other modellersí builds for guides and inspiration. I also have an unbuilt Trumpeter Kingtiger which I can use as a reference if necessary.

As well as focusing on the interior I will be making extensive modifications and additions to the exterior of the kit and using the following parts:

1) Aber Kingtiger Upgrade kit (35 K12), an expensive but comprehensive update set.



2) Friulmodel Kingtiger tracks (ATL-16)



3) Griffon Model Kingtiger Turret Ammo Racks (L35A009) Apologies for the generic image, mine are on back order from Historex. I am planning on buying multiple sets and adapting them and using them in the hull for ammunition storage. I really donít like the Takom ammo storage solution.



4) Tamyia Brass 88mm Kingtiger shells. (35166) I may need to buy more as I only have 11 and the real thing could hold 86.



5) Archer AR77017 Tiger and Panther transfers (I will need to adapt some of them for the Kingtiger)


I am willing to alter the format of the build by purchasing the Meng Kingtiger and the about to be released interior and build the Meng and Takom kits side by side, comparing the builds as I go. (I even have a Dragon Kingtiger around somewhere). If you would like me to purchase the Meng Kits please let me know in the comments below. (Donít worry I am not seeking donations) and I will go ahead and buy it.





I expect to start the build next weekend and finish it (if I am building two kits) by midsummer.

Thanks for looking Ė and remember to let me know if you would like to see a side by side build.

S
panamadan
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Minnesota, United States
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 735 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:11 AM GMT+7
Go Meng! I'm building the kit now and many parts literally click into place. Can't beat that with a stick.
Dan
wedgetail53
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 599 posts
Armorama: 570 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:40 AM GMT+7
G'day Dan

I will be watching with great interest, as the KT is one of my favourite tanks.

Don't forget the fuel tank vent lines on the sides - they're shown on the Meng picture, but not on the Takom one, and a LOT of modellers leave them off.

Yes, a side by side build would be great (I don't want to know the effect on your wallet!)

Regards

Rob
Tojo72
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:48 AM GMT+7
Oh my,another one.This one should be good.
PanzerKarl
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 11:05 AM GMT+7
Would love to see a side by side comparison of both kits,just looked and Emodels now have the Meng kit in stock.

I have the Takom 505 kit but been putting it off due to I don't want to mess it up and when I ordered the kit I purchased Mig Ammo paints for it and after using them on another kit and the way they spray there is no way I'll use them on my King Tiger.
Thirian24
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Oklahoma, United States
Joined: September 30, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 12:02 PM GMT+7
This is going to be a sweet build. I'm want to build the TAKOM kit so bad, but I'm scared by the interior. It would be a good challenge.
Braille
#135
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California, United States
Joined: August 05, 2007
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Posted: Monday, February 06, 2017 - 06:21 PM GMT+7
@SDavis - Steven,

If you do purchase the Meng kit there is also a separate workable track link set available from them with a set of torsion bars to make the suspension workable that is not included with the kit.

I don't know of any reviews for the interior or track link set. My understanding is that the track links included with the kit are link and length and the suspension is unworkable. If anyone knows and can update this information please do.

I will be keeping an eye out for your take on this build, enjoy!!!

~ Eddy
ahandykindaguy
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: August 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,201 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 02:34 AM GMT+7
Looking forward to your production on this build Steven! I have the Takom, with the earlier variant turret. I thought the price was pretty reasonable, compared to what I paid for my Ryfield Tiger I.

Waiting for the next update to blow us all out of the water....

SDavies
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: January 09, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 06:05 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

@SDavis - Steven,

If you do purchase the Meng kit there is also a separate workable track link set available from them with a set of torsion bars to make the suspension workable that is not included with the kit.

I don't know of any reviews for the interior or track link set. My understanding is that the track links included with the kit are link and length and the suspension is unworkable. If anyone knows and can update this information please do.

I will be keeping an eye out for your take on this build, enjoy!!!

~ Eddy



Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement. I have ordered the Kingtiger Meng Kit from e-models and when that arrives I will do some hull comparison shots.

The Meng KT interior is on pre-order, its not actually released yet. Think I read something about it being released at the end of February but I really hope its sooner. I will start the build after the Stug is finished and the enamel washes and paints should arrive tomorrow. Hopefully the Stug will be done over the weekend.

Interms of the Meng workable tracks, I dont think i will purchase them and I will probably get another set of Friulmodel tracks.

Karl, I am suprised and disappointed that you dont like the Mig Ammo paints, to be honest I use them almost exclusively these days and I think I can get fairly good results with them. I am using an Iwata HP-C plus and a generic AS196 Airbrush Compressor. I think that their Hull Red paint is slightly too brown but other than that no issues
SDavies
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: January 09, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 09:07 AM GMT+7
Hello All,
Well the Meng Kingtiger finally arrived but unfortunately without the interior box, but I have it on pre-order with E-models. I will let you know when it arrives.

My plan is to complete the Stug 3 build and then start construction of the Takom tank. When the Meng interior finally arrives I will suspend the Takom build and progress the Meng Interior so that for the rest of the buildlog the tanks are built in parallel.

I wonít be purchasing anymore photoetch for either tank. The tank that I feel is better detailed after the hull interior builds will get the Aber upgrade parts.

Well before the build starts I decided that it would be nice to compare the Takom and Meng Kingtigers and for an added bonus look at a Dragon Premium ĎPorscheí Turret Kingtiger (6312) which I have had unassembled since 2006. It requires zimmerit which I really donít enjoy making so it will sit unassembled until my four year old decides that he wants to start modelling.

It is very difficult to arrive at any real conclusions at this stage of the buildlog. I can say that I love the texture on the rolled steel armour present on the Meng kit, but hate the cheap looking redbrown colour of the plastic, even though the kit itself seems high quality. I would rather that the interior is included with the kit and that the interesting looking zimmerit kit was included with the Kingtiger rather than being an accessory. At £57 the kit with interior is expensive and does not come with workable tracks, they are extra at £19.79. The kit with workable tracks would cost £77. Probably nearer £100 if you bought the zimmerit kit. A 1/16th Trumpeter Kingtiger costs around £220 in UK so the Meng kit is very expensive for a 1/35 kit.

The Takom kit looks to be a very fine model but the armour has no texture to speak of and I really dislike the way the manufacturer implemented ammunition storage. At £53 the kit is better value for money than the Meng kit and comes in one box. The tracks are basic link tracks but will probably look fine. I like the real armour thickness feature, but itís something you could add yourself to the Meng kit if you wanted.

All three kits together:





And the Takom a Meng Kits:



The Dragon upper hull is quite simplified with lots of the engine deck pre-installed. This is not a disadvantage as itís packed with details.



The Meng kit has a significant advantage over the Takom kit which I will talk about later.



The Takom kit lacks the weld seam from the turret ring to the side of the hull. Both the Dragon and the Mang Kits have it. I will have to think about adding it somehow.



Many advanced builders of the 1/16th Trumpeter Kingtiger have cut the hull roof from the superstructure rather than not gluing the top of the hull to the base. This entails significant risk of screwing up and damaging a very expensive kit. Well Meng have obviously taken note. This is a significant plus for the model.



The interior of the upper hull:



The lower hull of the Dragon kit, note that there are no holes for the torsion bars so it would be very difficult to upgrade this kit to an interior model if you were ever that insane.



And the Meng kit with its hundreds of holes and injector pin marks. The rear hull looks like it will be a pain to clean up unless the interior kit comes with a new rear hull.



And the Takom kit, I know you wonít be able to see the injector pin marks or the writing when the hull components are in place but I canít just leave them.







The two Henschel turrets:







The next images are of the Kingtiger turret roofs, first the interior. Both kits at the moment look reasonably similar and any missing parts are probably included in the rest of the kit. I donít like the strange cut out in the commanderís cupola though in the Takom kit.


The Meng kit has bigger weld seams and seems to have a very slight advantage in detail over the Takom kit.


All the hulls seem dimensionally similar in this very scientifically inaccurate test.



Here we look at the rear of the hulls, Dragon at the top. Not much difference in this picture at the moment, although the Takom kit has less parts pre-applied.



There is a significant difference in the thickness of the armour plates. The Takom kit apparently provides ďreal armour thicknessĒ and it shows on the scale of the kit part. The real Kingtiger had 50mm thick rear armour plate and the Takom kit looks the part. I canít expect the Dragon kit to have real armour thickness but I certainly expect that from the Meng kit. Indeed the Meng kit looks like it might need a lot of clean up and sanding as it has lots of extra material added.



Looking at the bottom of the hulls, first the Dragon kit, overall I donít think there are any real winners or losers here and all the kits apart from the Takom one look practically identical.



Meng kit



The Takom kit, note the Ďscoopsí present on the armour.



The last two images are of the 88mm KwK 43 L71 gun barrels. The first is the Meng model kit part and I am so fortunate that my kit came with an aluminium barrel because it looks to be a real pig to make and hide the join marks. Itís a real shame that Meng in 2016 produced a kit with a two piece gun barrel. I could never have used the kit part and would have been forced to spend £20 on an Aber aftermarket replacement.

The second is the Takom barrel, itís fairly nice apart from mine being warped. Again lucky I am not using it. The third is the Aber gun barrel from the 35 K12 kit. It is the nicest of the lot and contains fine details present on the real thing.

The fourth barrel is the one that came as a bonus in the Meng kit, itís very nice although a few mm longer than the kit and the Aber barrels. The last is from an old Dragon Kingtiger that was salvaged from a model that was completely destroyed in a house move. It seems completely inaccurate and not good enough to sit on one of my models. I canít remember the kit it came from but it must have been an early Kingtiger. Awful.



This last photo is property of worldwar2aces.com and shows the fine detail present on the Aber barrel but missing on the other kits.



Thanks for looking

S

Wierdy
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Ukraine / Україна
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 463 posts
Armorama: 446 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 09:29 AM GMT+7
Steven you are the MAN!!!

You are doing the job many of us need. All these choices generate doubts your SBS images and comments eliminate.
Meng turret roof weld beads are way too wide indeed.
I wish you not to end up combining the three kits together.

The prices in the UK are extremely high too.
Keep up the good work!
PanzerKarl
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 12:15 PM GMT+7
They all look good kits but not perfect
Good side by side comparison.
cabasner
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Nevada, United States
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 734 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 12:49 AM GMT+7
Sending my thanks to you for doing this side by side build. I will be watching with great interest. Great job so far!!! I have both the Dragon King Tiger kits (Henschel and Porsche turrets), both with Zimmerit. The Henschel was started long ago but stalled about mid-build, and the Porsche is still in its box, not yet started. I bought all the aftermarket goodies for the Porsche tank, and now wondering if one of these others would be better for a super detailed tank. Will be watching to see!!
RLlockie
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 01:28 AM GMT+7
Rather than comparing the dimensions of kits with each other, would there be merit in doing so against a set of reliable references, such as Doyle's recent drawings? After all, of all three kit manufacturers make the same error (such as referring to 'Porsche' or 'Henschel' turrets 😬), does that make them all accurate?

Not suggesting that your approach has no merit (as assembly and engineering are important with a model kit) but if seeking the most sound starting point, fidelity to original basic dimensions is useful to some of us.
panamadan
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Minnesota, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 01:34 AM GMT+7
You're 100% correct Robert
jrutman
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 02:08 AM GMT+7
Super to see this side by side blog !! I look forward to the progress after the Stug but I feel compelled to ask,what happened with the TigerI build ?
J
SDavies
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: January 09, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 08:06 AM GMT+7
I will do my best Robert in the next update. However the latest Hilary Doyle drawings I have are from Thomas Jentz book 'Germany's Tiger Tanks VK45.02 to Tiger 2' and dated 1997.

If there is a more current set of drawings frankly I wont be purchasing them as I feel that I have enough reference books and build logs on Trumpter's Kingtiger to ably build and superdetail both Kingtigers. Although if someone wants to send me some I will of course use them for this thread.

Jerry the Tiger 1 is in a draw three feet away from me waiting to be finished. The hull is basically done, I just need to complete the turret. To he honest I think that the RFM Tigers (I have the early kit) have made the buildlog rather obsolete.

After the Kingtigers are finished maybe I will complete it...... then again I have been saying that for years.

I am currently finalising the Stug 3 which should be completed towards trhe end of the week.
RLlockie
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 09:37 AM GMT+7
That's the most recent set I have, so should be a sound starting point. I've not seen anything more comprehensive as a source.
PanzerKarl
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 11:16 AM GMT+7
Just watched a guy on Youtube assemble the suspension arms and road wheels on the Meng kit and he had issues that the wheels are not straight they tend to taper inwards sort of like this \-//

Not started my kit yet but it's a bit concerning.
Wierdy
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Ukraine / Україна
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 11:37 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Just watched a guy on Youtube assemble the suspension arms and road wheels on the Meng kit and he had issues that the wheels are not straight they tend to taper inwards sort of like this -//

Not started my kit yet but it's a bit concerning.



Could you please give a link to the video?
PanzerKarl
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 11:42 AM GMT+7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG0py1gNms4&t=1694s

Watch from 26:10.
Not sure if it's something he's done wrong but he says he has spoken to others that also have the same problem.
Wierdy
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 11:45 AM GMT+7
Thanks a lot!
TigerFan182
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 12:18 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG0py1gNms4&t=1694s

Watch from 26:10.
Not sure if it's something he's done wrong but he says he has spoken to others that also have the same problem.



I've encountered this problem too, although mine ended up much worse than in the video. Look at the below photo and note that the pins for the swing arms are off center.



The problem comes from poor alignment of parts C3&C4. Theses are inserts fitted to the inside of the lower hull to create anchor points for the swing arms. You have to get the these aligned PERFECTLY with the holes in the hull. I didn't notice until it was too late and had to cut the locating pins off the swing arms and glue them in place by eye.

wanagun
#145
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 01:13 PM GMT+7
This great. Thanks for doing this.
PanzerKarl
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England - North West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 06:58 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG0py1gNms4&t=1694s

Watch from 26:10.
Not sure if it's something he's done wrong but he says he has spoken to others that also have the same problem.



I've encountered this problem too, although mine ended up much worse than in the video. Look at the below photo and note that the pins for the swing arms are off center.



The problem comes from poor alignment of parts C3&C4. Theses are inserts fitted to the inside of the lower hull to create anchor points for the swing arms. You have to get the these aligned PERFECTLY with the holes in the hull. I didn't notice until it was too late and had to cut the locating pins off the swing arms and glue them in place by eye.




Not had a chance to look at my kit yet,but I will investigate and see if I can find a solution when I come to installing the suspension arms.I suppose as you said gluing them in as the suspension is none workable.