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OIF LAV-25 questions
bison126
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 02:11 PM UTC
Hi all
I intend to build my LAV as the ones depicted in the Prime Portal series of pictures below.





My questions concern the additional basket or platform on the turret sides. On the left side, it looks it is a platform only without the upper frame making a basket while on the right side, the picture clearly shows it is a basket.

Q1: Could anyone confirm my assumption?
Q2 : Could anyone share some measurements or close-up pictures?

TIA
Olivier
white4doc
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 07:12 PM UTC
Hi, Oliver

Shot you an answer on Missing Lynx. Those are both Gypsy Racks, the reason the other on looks like it's missing the framework is the amount of stowage in and on it. Those were from my platoon in 4th LAR, all our gear rode outside beacuse we were packed to the gills with ammunition and sensitive items inside. I think I have a sales flyer from the company as a .pdf with dimensions, if not the particular racks were sized to fit six five gallon cans so it wouldn't be too hard to guesstimate the dimensions if you had to. If you run into any sticking points with this project feel free pick my brain, happy to help you out.
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 08:18 PM UTC
Here's a view of an empty Gypsyrack rack :



Variant :



H.P.
bison126
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 08:39 PM UTC
Thank you both for the answers and the pictures. Those will help for sure.
John, how were the racks attached to the turret? I assume the jerrycan holders were removed to fit the racks.
If I'm correct, I need 5 individual equipment sets to cover the LAV (ALICE bags + sleeping bags and mats and a lot of other items).
Are the home made CIPs the same size as the officially issued ones? I spotted a third one on the engine access hatch but with no green tape on it. Was it the same size as the others?

Olivier
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 09:11 PM UTC
You're welcome Olivier ! I've found some rack specs in one of my old posts (back in 2012 !) :

Length: 20 in.
Width : 50 in.
Height : 18 in.

Je te laisse faire la conversion

H.P.
white4doc
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 10:16 PM UTC
Oliver,

Believe it or not they were ziptied (granted the zipties were pretty heavy duty) to the vehicle using existing fixtures, I'm pretty sure they did remove the can mounts since the cans were inside the racks. The homemade CIPs were sized using an issue one as a template, they were just scrap plywood and thin painted sheetmetal and ziptied to whatever fixture was handy. We had 3 crewmen and 4 scouts on the -25s, there was a mixture of ALICE, MOLLE and commercially produced gear on the vehicles since 4th LAR was a Reserve unit and it had people issued gear by the unit or by 1st Marine Division (the MOLLE Gear) and guys also brought their own stuff.
junglejim
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Posted: Saturday, January 13, 2018 - 02:03 AM UTC
Dang, I never realized there were additional racks on the turret when I built this for Osprey's 'Modelling Armoured Vehicles', I'm not even sure if I saw those on Prime Portal back then (I think I used some photos in Concord books for inspiration). I wish I had this model still - a moving company 'lost' it when we came back from Germany...




(sorry for the hijack, just liking the new info, might have to build another one some day)

Jim
bison126
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Posted: Saturday, January 13, 2018 - 01:09 PM UTC
Thank you again John and Henri-Pierre for the answers. I now have to find some square Evergreen rod to make the gypsyracks and the camo net from the Japanese brand I've forgotten the name!

Jim, nice LAV indeed.

Olivier
Frenchy
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Posted: Saturday, January 13, 2018 - 05:05 PM UTC
Salut Olivier

Here's a drawing from a manufacturer's brochure (not available online anymore...) that shows how the rack is fitted to the Humvee tailgate :



H.P.
white4doc
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Posted: Saturday, January 13, 2018 - 06:45 PM UTC
I remember the Lance Coolies on the working party cutting those mounting brackets off with bolt cutters so the racks would lay flat on the hull, they may have left them on to help support the ones against the bustle rack. H.P., I think you might have the same brochure I do/did; I'm still looking for mine through all my reference stuff (got to organize it better). One non-standard piece of gear our platoon carried in those racks which kind of rotated among the vehicles was a toilet seat to use on the ammo crate crapper to prevent splinters; worth its' weight in gold.
bison126
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Posted: Saturday, January 13, 2018 - 08:53 PM UTC
I'm considering painting the vehicle first then adding the crew gear all around.
Trumpeter tells you to paint the undercarriage in the three-tone camo while on the reference pics it looks like the wheels were painted black. Which color was the lower hull sides?

John, I don't if I'll represent the toilet seat but it would be an original detail

On the Prime Portal pictures, I can't see any other marking than the one on the rear plate. Is this correct?

Olivier
white4doc
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Posted: Sunday, January 14, 2018 - 07:06 PM UTC
There were smaller versions of the A/4> on the hull sides but in most of the pictures they're covered by gear, so you could get away with just the rear marking if you put enough stowage on the hull. The lifting/towing shackles were used to secure stuff on the vehicle, so you would not be remiss in not showing them installed per the kit instructions. Also it was a common practice to stow MREs between the props and hull, the case was a perfect fit and stayed without having to be tied.
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 03:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also it was a common practice to stow MREs between the props and hull, the case was a perfect fit and stayed without having to be tied.





H.P.
bison126
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Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 01:55 PM UTC
John,
Got it for the markings. It will make my life easier
I have to make a number of gear items as my stash is not full enough to fill all the baskets and cover the vehicle sides.

I'm also trying to figure out how to make the camo net rolled on top of the gear.
Kamizukuri nets are hard to find and cost an arm in shipping. DEF Model makes a net in PE which I don't find suitable to depict the way the net was installed in your platoon.

Olivier
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 03:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm also trying to figure out how to make the camo net rolled on top of the gear.



Salut Olivier

Have you seen this set from Black Dog (#T35118) :





Maybe this could be an option ? And you'll surely find some use for the rest of the set parts

H.P.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 03:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

...
I'm also trying to figure out how to make the camo net rolled on top of the gear.
...

Olivier


There is a post in the Campaigns section (British Brigade campaign) where callsign kunjuro has made camo netting of gauze and tea leaves. Could possibly be worth trying ...

image borrowed from that thread
http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=260752&page=3

/ Robin
white4doc
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Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 07:23 PM UTC
Personally, Oliver I'd go with the rolled gauze technique since you don't need a tremendous amount of detail, there was a lot of dust, etc. coating everything; it will also drape well. I have the Black Dog set, it's nice, but the net comes in sections, it's solid and just doesn't look right to the eye - it doesn't drape, it rests. The vehicles in the gun platoons all carried two rolls of wire on the front (either concertina or barbed wire) for snap VCPs these were lashed around the light clusters on VC's side of the vehicle and the pioneer tools were either carried inside (bow saw and mattock head) or in the racks (mattock handle, shovel and axe). Unless you're depicting the push to Baghdad, you can also use protective mask carriers as stowage in either the gypsy racks or turret bustle rack; once it came down we did not have to tote around the gas masks they were all stowed together for accountability on the vehicles that might help somewhat with your stowage. In my platoon only two vehicles carried a spare tire, and it wasn't mounted in the usual place on the hull (there was a gypsy rack there), it was tied down on the engine access panel.
bison126
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Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 10:54 PM UTC
I have found a reference from AFV Club. I'll share my experience with it.

Olivier
white4doc
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Posted: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 05:31 AM UTC
We have several of them lying around the shop at work, nobody's really shown an interest in them since they came in so I'll be interested in your experience with the AFV Club netting.
bison126
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Posted: Monday, January 22, 2018 - 03:06 PM UTC
Hi all
I got my square "rod" from evergreen and should be able to start making the Gypsy racks.
However, the rod is 0.5mmx0.5mm which makes 1.75cm (or 0.68 inch) in real life. Is it large enough or should I find larger rod?

Additional questions to John (but not only ) : you wrote that a third rack was atttached to the hull left side. Could you tell me where or show a picture?

TIA
Olivier
white4doc
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Posted: Monday, January 22, 2018 - 08:14 PM UTC
Out of all the pictures I took I never thought to get a decent one of that detail...never occured to me it might be useful some day. The third rack was forward of the scout hatch roughly parallel with the turret, thing is it was eyeballed by the crew so there was a variation in the location. So long as it did not interfere with the turret traverse and egress from the vehicle in an emergency it didn't matter tremendously there is one picture on Prime Portal taken in the assembly area you'll see the camo net on the hull covering a big bump just forward of the scout hatch, that third rack is under the net, roughly above the third wheel. It's actually where the spare tire is supposed to be mounted on the LAV.
bison126
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Posted: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - 12:46 AM UTC
Thank you John. I see the picture you mention. I think I have all I need to attach the racks, the spare tire and whatever gear I can find in my stash

Olivier