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Operation Epsem-The Scottish Corridor.
jrutman
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2018 - 03:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

OK,I have googled and googled and in fact,maybe it was too much ! I still have not found the proper shoulder patch for the 2/Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders worn during Op Epsom 1944.
Anyone ??
J



Jerry,

I'm afraid I haven't a complete answer but I might be able to give you some pointers; I hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs.

The soldiers would have sported the Divisional flash of the Scottish Lion (probably described as rampant or similar but I'm not a heraldic expert); this was a red lion on a yellow circle, outlined in white within a black square. Although the Division consisted of 3 x Brigades, the Brigades did not sport their own emblem - as far as I am aware.

The composite Brigades were 44th (Lowland), 46th (Highland), and 227th (Highland) and that reflects the order of seniority established by either historical or date of formation criteria. Each Brigade was therefore designated on the uniform by a thin red horizontal stripe ergo 44th would sport 1 x stripe, 46th x 2, and 227 x 3.

2 A & SH were part of 227 so beneath the Divisional badge they would have 3 x horizontal red stripes. These would be above any rank stripes etc.

Most British units wore an abbreviated title in a curved strip following the curve of the shoulder below the epaulette. This would be red for infantry but in Scottish units this was replaced by a small flash of tartan material above the Div badge - which would reflect the respective (historical) tartan of that particular regiment.

So, to sort of recap (and perhaps this will prompt some of my more knowledgeable countryman to respond)from the top of the battledress sleeve - both sides:

Tartan flash

Div flash - the Scottish Lion

Brigade strips (x 3)

Rank stripes or not

Further down above the cuff:

Warrant Officer badges of rank

Wound stripes (unsure of which sleeve)

Long service stripes - dependent on of course, the soldier's career (again, unsure of which sleeve).

And of course, dependent on the type of qualification, various trade badges either further up the sleeve or above the cuff.

This all sounds quite busy and photographic evidence may not support all of it.

The answer could be quite easily found (and indeed, all the fiendish machinations of 37 pattern webbing) in the excellent Histoire & Collection volumes 1 and 2 "From D Day to VE Day - the British Soldier"; sadly I lent mine a long time ago and lost them.

Sorry for this long-winded and ultimately incomplete response; in principle the uniforms could look quite colourful!

Brian




OK,well,surprisingly that response made complete sense to me ! I think the box from MasterBox that the figs came in might actually have pics of all the appropriate patches. I will have to find it again and check it out. Very complex arraignment but the lineage of these units is quite long so it is no surprise.
Thanks buddy !
I have made more progress in understanding the 37 kit as well and will post some updated and changed pics soon.
J
J
BootsDMS
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2018 - 05:12 AM UTC
Jerry,

'Glad to be of some help although I'm painfully aware of the limitations of my response.

If you need any further information of the 37 Pattern Webbing I'll do my very best to clarify; I actually wore the damn stuff from 69 - 71 (and then beyond) save the complex entrenching tool bit - which is probably where the most problems lie from a modelling viewpoint. However, if I can help I'm more than glad to. Of course, we didn't just wear it, we had to clean it and the use of the cleaning agent "Blanco" is another story in itself (!)

Keep up the good work.

Brian

chefchris
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2018 - 08:38 AM UTC
Awesome stuff..... I always come home from work and grab a bourbon and ginger and marvel at your work. It's very inspiring to say the least. And as a Stevenson I am proud to see the Scots represented. Thx
Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 07:44 PM UTC
Wound badges and overseas service stripes are small inverted chevrons in blue or red on the right cuff. Long sevice and good conduct stripes are the same size as rank badges, but inverted and worn on the left lower sleeve by privates and lance corporals (lance bombardiers) only. The highest number of GC stripes I've seen is seven, but this was on an "old sweat" pre-war who would have been too old for front line service in WW2.
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 11:50 PM UTC
Brian and Chris,
thanks guys for the comments and nice words and lots and lots of info. Appreciate it men !
Steve,thanks for the intel on the ancillary badges as well. Since this unit was decimated around Singapore I don't think many old salts though ? Maybe the hang outs in the rear with the gear ? Transfers?
I will try to be equitable though. Thanks.

Now my new quandry,how to get the proper color of the battledress. I tried 4 different mixes so far and am not happy. Either too green or too tan. Tips would be welcome.
This reminds me of when I started painting German stuff. ground zero.
J
BootsDMS
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 12:51 AM UTC
Jerry,

As I don't normally model WW2 stuff except in small scale I'm not too sure. I also still use enamels so can only really speak about them.

I do know that there were colour variations and different shades and patterns of battledress as the war progressed, with an inevitable concomitant lack of quality. I have seen very brownish shades and also very noticeable green tinges.

I have also worn Battledress (in addition to wearing the wretched 37 webbing) but that was the 1949 version so not really relevant. I have used Humbrol No 26 when painting my small scale efforts and having just rediscovered a Militaria Magazine from 1995, wherein lies an article about the British Infantryman in Normandy, would suggest that this - Humbrol 26 - may well work for 1:35 as well.

I have no idea what an acrylic equivalent is, and of course colour perception is a very individual thing! I'm assuming scale colour will also impact but Humbrol 26 might just be good enough.

Brian
jrutman
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 03:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Jerry,

As I don't normally model WW2 stuff except in small scale I'm not too sure. I also still use enamels so can only really speak about them.

I do know that there were colour variations and different shades and patterns of battledress as the war progressed, with an inevitable concomitant lack of quality. I have seen very brownish shades and also very noticeable green tinges.

I have also worn Battledress (in addition to wearing the wretched 37 webbing) but that was the 1949 version so not really relevant. I have used Humbrol No 26 when painting my small scale efforts and having just rediscovered a Militaria Magazine from 1995, wherein lies an article about the British Infantryman in Normandy, would suggest that this - Humbrol 26 - may well work for 1:35 as well.

I have no idea what an acrylic equivalent is, and of course colour perception is a very individual thing! I'm assuming scale colour will also impact but Humbrol 26 might just be good enough.

Brian



Thanks Brian,
Your thoughts mirror mine pretty much. Lots of variations in dye,etc. We have that topic show up here once in a while concerning the "right" color for German uniforms. Someone inevitably posts the famous pic showing about 30 German jackets,every one a different color !
Looks to me for '44 battledress that a mix of khaki and earth brown is in order. And,of course,there is no "perfect" color.
Thanks again for taking the time to post this,
J
SF-07-18D
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 03:15 PM UTC
Hi Jerry!

Have you taken a look at AK Interactive sets??
https://ak-interactive.com/product-category/paints/paints-acrylics/paints-acrylics-sets/figures/

Maybe you can find something useful.
jrutman
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 07:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Jerry!

Have you taken a look at AK Interactive sets??
https://ak-interactive.com/product-category/paints/paints-acrylics/paints-acrylics-sets/figures/

Maybe you can find something useful.



I like their products and have a good number of them already. I really want to learn more about mixing colors to achieve what I want so I can save money and plus,it helps me learn more about my new interest in 2D painting for backdrops ! But thanks for the tip !
J
jrutman
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 01:01 AM UTC
First chappy almost done. I am debating the burlap strips on his helmet.







Suitably Scottish looking ??
Vierville
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 01:23 AM UTC
That looks excellent! Very Scottish looking... I shall name him "Jock"!

Nice work there as usual sir!
pgb3476
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 01:30 AM UTC
Jock looks very nice, indeed. Ok, you have done, US, British, German and now the Scots. I think Ivan needs a turn. Almost forgot, Wake Island, so the Marines too!

SF-07-18D
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 02:50 AM UTC
Very good looking, J!!
chazman
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 03:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

First chappy almost done. I am debating the burlap strips on his helmet.







Suitably Scottish looking ??



Nice work, Jerry. The burlap strips would be a nice touch.
Dioramartin
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 05:16 PM UTC
Jock looks great – brilliant tactics to get the correct khaki, I see many colours in the uniform & most of them must be right! Looks A1 to me. Talking of 2D backdrops I did a double-take looking at that first photo…



Skies are skies but it looked very similar to this one I did for my mega-railway-layout mate a couple of years ago - 4ft high x several light-years long on paneling right round a massive room (some sections yet to be finished) all air-brushed & I’m sure some of the cloud paint’s still in what’s left of my hair. Anyhow I think it was Kurt who recently pointed out it’s so much less hassle to just photograph dios in front of a screen where any backdrop is just a click away – is that what yours is & if so are you staying old-skool for the final scene?

WillysJeep
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 08:22 PM UTC
Very nice work Jerry.
jrutman
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 08:37 PM UTC
Mike Greg and Nacho,
Thanks for the nice comments Gents ! So,my new guy has been christened "Jock" and so it shall be ! LoL
I try to be an equal opportunity builder in my mini men,yes. I have an upcoming project still in the accumulating stage that covers the Eastern Front so that may finally satiate Greg ?
thanks again,
J
jrutman
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 08:41 PM UTC
@Chazman-thanks buddy ! I appreciate it man,
@Tim-that is a really spectacular layout there for sure ! I love scale railroad layouts and wish I had the room for one to go wild with. The backdrop on this guy was my old standby when I am lazy. I stood a large format picture book up behind him and tried to blend him with the background. It is a book a buddy gave me during my last trip to Blighty covering the Cotswolds. So I can take zero artistic credit,unlike your brilliant backdrop that you created. I have made a few like that albeit on a much smaller scale using both a rattle can and the airbrush. Nice work.
@The other Tim!- Thanks for the nice comment buddy !
J
BootsDMS
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 09:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

First chappy almost done. I am debating the burlap strips on his helmet.







Suitably Scottish looking ??



Jerry,

Great work; I would suggest that the burlap strips on the helmet are vital (Hessian usually to us Brits). I note that there are plenty of pictures throughout the Normandy campaign showing none, but I feel that to the Infantryman, personal concealment could mean a matter of life and death and simply as part of his battle prep he would have camouflaged his helmet, if not other items. Most of the footage of Epsom does indeed show this.

Keep up the good work.

Brian
jrutman
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 10:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

First chappy almost done. I am debating the burlap strips on his helmet.







Suitably Scottish looking ??



Jerry,

Great work; I would suggest that the burlap strips on the helmet are vital (Hessian usually to us Brits). I note that there are plenty of pictures throughout the Normandy campaign showing none, but I feel that to the Infantryman, personal concealment could mean a matter of life and death and simply as part of his battle prep he would have camouflaged his helmet, if not other items. Most of the footage of Epsom does indeed show this.

Keep up the good work.

Brian



I concur. I am blundering through several ways to make a nice strip that is frayed along the edges. Not easy in 1/35 scale though !
J
BootsDMS
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 11:35 PM UTC
It's very tricky depicting hessian in 1:35; I used endless strips of Tamiya tape to depict a camouflage net affixed to my 1:35 Conqueror, then painted green and brown respectively. I achieved an effect after a fashion but it wasn't quite as it should be.

I had experimented using fabric plasters - the ones for cuts and grazes - but that was too overscale. I suppose the answer might be to texturize whatever you are using - be it tape or lead foil; with a texture the ragged edges would perhaps be suggested if not there, if you see what I mean.

I look forward to a solution - any solution!

Brian
jrutman
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 11:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It's very tricky depicting hessian in 1:35; I used endless strips of Tamiya tape to depict a camouflage net affixed to my 1:35 Conqueror, then painted green and brown respectively. I achieved an effect after a fashion but it wasn't quite as it should be.

I had experimented using fabric plasters - the ones for cuts and grazes - but that was too overscale. I suppose the answer might be to texturize whatever you are using - be it tape or lead foil; with a texture the ragged edges would perhaps be suggested if not there, if you see what I mean.

I look forward to a solution - any solution!

Brian




Leaning toward my old friend,lead foil ! If it ain't broke,don't fix it !
I think I saw that tank you built. Brilliant
J
jrutman
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 03:24 AM UTC
How does this work out ?



The helmet is just tacked on with clay and will sit further down.
Sean50
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 03:24 PM UTC
Hello Jerry

Looking good so far. The first guy is great. Brian is right I think that hessian/burlap is almost essential, although it seems a shame to cover up that nice mesh.
For the material itself, I've been experimenting too and have had half decent results with tissue.
Two ply tissue given a coat on both side with appropriately coloured acrylic paint (main reason being quick drying). When dry thinly sliced with a new or new-ish blade. It's not quite the same as the real thing but does have a bit more surface texture that other materials and cane be frayed a little too.
I hope my description makes sense. Keep up the good work

Cheers

Sean
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 12:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Jerry

Looking good so far. The first guy is great. Brian is right I think that hessian/burlap is almost essential, although it seems a shame to cover up that nice mesh.
For the material itself, I've been experimenting too and have had half decent results with tissue.
Two ply tissue given a coat on both side with appropriately coloured acrylic paint (main reason being quick drying). When dry thinly sliced with a new or new-ish blade. It's not quite the same as the real thing but does have a bit more surface texture that other materials and cane be frayed a little too.
I hope my description makes sense. Keep up the good work

Cheers

Sean



Thanks Sean,I appreciate th kind words and advice. I have decided to go with the tissue approach. I tried it and it is much better than my usual foil usage for sure.
Too late to remove the foil on his bonnet but I added some tissue for embellishment.


I did better with the unit patches this time (I think) and also made him a corporal.


I also finally gleaned from friends and also the web exactly how the rucksack attaches to those "L" straps.


Yes,I know,there is no way to attach a rolled item to the top of the small rucksack. But I didn't know the MB kit part was wrong when I glued and puttied it on !! So I will have to live with it and be fortified knowing I will not make that error again !

Onward and upward I hope !
J