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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Alternatives to DAK Panzer 4 Dragon 6779
cabasner
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Nevada, United States
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 816 posts
Armorama: 770 posts
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 10:27 AM UTC
All,

The Dragon 6779 DAK Panzer IV appears to be sold out everywhere. Is there an alternative to this kit? Are there any Dragon kits that could be EASILY modified to make it like the DAK Panzer IV? Or, does anyone know where a Dragon 6779 is available? Thanks.
d111298pw
#456
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Delhi, India / भारत
Joined: September 22, 2016
KitMaker: 327 posts
Armorama: 311 posts
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 10:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

All,

The Dragon 6779 DAK Panzer IV appears to be sold out everywhere. Is there an alternative to this kit? Are there any Dragon kits that could be EASILY modified to make it like the DAK Panzer IV? Or, does anyone know where a Dragon 6779 is available? Thanks.



Curt,
There are several on ebay at the moment.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/2588/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=dragon+6779
RLlockie
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United Kingdom
Joined: September 06, 2013
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Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 12:09 PM UTC
Did I not read that 6779 contains running gear parts that mean you canít actually build the kit as it should be because the wrong parts are supplied? If that is the case and itís hard to find anyway, you might consider the Tristar D and replace the engine hatches with Tropen ones from another kit. I got hold of a discounted Tristar D before the Dragon D was released and managed to find some Italeri Tropen decks from its old Pz IV that I plan to use. I think David Parker used those on his build and didnít report any compatibility issues. Youíd also need a turret bin as Tristar doesnít provide one.
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 11,128 posts
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Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 01:03 PM UTC
AFAIK this Ausf F1 is closely related to the Dragon kit (kit # M18 also listed as G-778) :



H.P.
d111298pw
#456
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Delhi, India / भारत
Joined: September 22, 2016
KitMaker: 327 posts
Armorama: 311 posts
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 01:33 PM UTC
There are a couple of kit reviews if you haven't already seen them.

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=9421

http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/german/dml6779reviewcs_1.html

Here is a link to the instructions:
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10229851
alanmac
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United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 2,780 posts
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Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 02:55 PM UTC
Hi

From what I've read I wouldn't worry too much about buying one, it isn't one of Dragon's better efforts. The two reviews don't mention the errors, in fact Cookie Sewell's reviews are more like product endorsements than what I've always regarded as a real review, like Terry Ashley would do on PMMS.

There was a build of this kit on the military modelling web site which gave some info on corrections but this site has now sadly gone.

If you want to build an example I'd be more inclined to take the route Robert Lockie outlines.
cabasner
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Nevada, United States
Joined: February 12, 2012
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Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 10:52 PM UTC
All,

Many thanks for your help and recommendations!
cabasner
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Nevada, United States
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 816 posts
Armorama: 770 posts
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 11:36 PM UTC
[quote]Did I not read that 6779 contains running gear parts that mean you canít actually build the kit as it should be because the wrong parts are supplied? If that is the case and itís hard to find anyway, you might consider the Tristar D and replace the engine hatches with Tropen ones from another kit. I got hold of a discounted Tristar D before the Dragon D was released and managed to find some Italeri Tropen decks from its old Pz IV that I plan to use. I think David Parker used those on his build and didnít report any compatibility issues. Youíd also need a turret bin as Tristar doesnít provide one.[/quote

Robert, a few questions. Are the DAK/Tropn engine deck hatches the ones with the louvers? I have a Dragon Vorpanzer kit which I used the 'flat' hatches, and still have the hatches with the louvers which also stand a bit above the flat part of the hatches. Do you possibly have a photo of those deck hatches?
cabasner
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Nevada, United States
Joined: February 12, 2012
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Armorama: 770 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2018 - 02:48 AM UTC
I found a TriStar Panzer IV on EBay, which I got for $28.00, including shipping, which I think was a pretty good deal. Now I'm just waiting for Robert Lockie to give me a few thoughts on my questions. Thanks again to all who answered me.
TopSmith
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Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,004 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2018 - 08:15 AM UTC
OK I have the Dragon kit. Robert an Alan mention problems or possible problems. So... what are the issues? Does anyone have that information available before I start the kit.

Thanks.
Hangelafette
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 288 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 20, 2018 - 12:49 AM UTC
Hi Curt,

I have the Dragon Pz.IV DAK kit and I was going to swap the road wheels with the Tristar German Sturmpanzer IV (Early) Sd.Kfz.166 35038 which comes (incorrectly) with narrow tires. I am pretty sure the Dragon kit actually comes with the correct wheels (on the A sprue), but they do not include the tires. Of course, I am not sure if the Tristar tires fit on the Dragon wheels.

This does not solve the issue with the idlers or the drive sprocket. I was going to cannibalize some of my other Pz IV kits for the correct parts.

As for the engine deck, on the DAK version the engine hatches have the louvers. I am pretty sure you could just use the hatches included in your vorpanzer kit.

Nathan



Tanked57
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United States
Joined: May 17, 2018
KitMaker: 7 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 20, 2018 - 04:16 PM UTC
I've g0t one I started it but put it back on shelf
Robbd01
#323
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Arizona, United States
Joined: February 13, 2013
KitMaker: 668 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 21, 2018 - 02:58 AM UTC
I wandered into this post and got my curiosity up. I have the ageing Tamiya IV D in my stash No. 35098. https://www.scalemates.com/kits/128887-tamiya-mm196-panzer-kampfwagen-iv-ausf-d

I was wondering how good/bad this one is. The instructions show optional pieces to use ie engine covers, for DAK version. But due to it's age what other issues are there ? To me it sure looks like a IV D. Just wondering.

Cheers

m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Monday, May 21, 2018 - 03:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I wandered into this post and got my curiosity up. I have the ageing Tamiya IV D in my stash No. 35098. https://www.scalemates.com/kits/128887-tamiya-mm196-panzer-kampfwagen-iv-ausf-d

I was wondering how good/bad this one is. The instructions show optional pieces to use ie engine covers, for DAK version. But due to it's age what other issues are there ? To me it sure looks like a IV D. Just wondering.

Cheers




Robbie,

As I recall the drive sprockets are too wide because they used the tracks from their 1980's ish H (J?) kit. It goes down hill from there. It can be built up into a nice looking model, I did one a long time ago. However, it's long over due for retirement.
TopSmith
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Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,004 posts
Armorama: 950 posts
Posted: Monday, May 21, 2018 - 04:11 AM UTC
Dragonusaonline has a Pzkfw IV D #6873 in stock on special for $30.
Just add the DAK parts and you have a cheap fix. Or just use the 6873 running gear.
Ringleheim
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Florida, United States
Joined: September 04, 2009
KitMaker: 106 posts
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Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2018 - 02:20 PM UTC
Try Dragon 6315.

TopSmith
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Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,004 posts
Armorama: 950 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 05:25 PM UTC
OK so I looked through Dragons 6779 kit. I looked at two PZKFW IV books and from the little bit I saw, The kit does come with the correct idlers. It does come with the correct wheels minus the tires. The sprocket is ...inaccurate for an early pzkfwIV UNLESS there were two types available on the D model. The photo's I have, match the box art but the kit sprockets are missing the small openings where the teeth ring attaches to the sprocket. The E model went to the simplified sprocket where the small openings were omitted. Maybe some of the D's got these sprockets? If so then getting the tires from Dragon USA should put you back in business.

The track however, will have to be replaced. They remind me of Tamiya track from 35 years ago. The only positive about the track is the hollow guide horns. Otherwise the detail is lacking.
The rest of the kit looked OK. The bit with the tools is really not a problem and is easily done.

Maybe someone knows what kit # the roadwheels without tires came from? It is an A sprue.

If I overlooked something PLEASE chime in.

P.S. I just looked at Friule track. They have both the 36cm and the 40 cm listed for the D model and the picture of the D model with the 40 cm track also had the simplified sprocket but retained the earlier idler.
cabasner
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Nevada, United States
Joined: February 12, 2012
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Armorama: 770 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 12:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

OK so I looked through Dragons 6779 kit. I looked at two PZKFW IV books and from the little bit I saw, The kit does come with the correct idlers. It does come with the correct wheels minus the tires. The sprocket is ...inaccurate for an early pzkfwIV UNLESS there were two types available on the D model. The photo's I have, match the box art but the kit sprockets are missing the small openings where the teeth ring attaches to the sprocket. The E model went to the simplified sprocket where the small openings were omitted. Maybe some of the D's got these sprockets? If so then getting the tires from Dragon USA should put you back in business.

The track however, will have to be replaced. They remind me of Tamiya track from 35 years ago. The only positive about the track is the hollow guide horns. Otherwise the detail is lacking.
The rest of the kit looked OK. The bit with the tools is really not a problem and is easily done.

Maybe someone knows what kit # the roadwheels without tires came from? It is an A sprue.

If I overlooked something PLEASE chime in.

P.S. I just looked at Friule track. They have both the 36cm and the 40 cm listed for the D model and the picture of the D model with the 40 cm track also had the simplified sprocket but retained the earlier idler.



Thanks a ton, Greg. I have lots of choices now. I have the Tristar D model kit and some photo-etch, plus some Fruil tracks, but canít recall the set number at the moment. I also have the Dragon 6315 kit. Plus, I think I have more related stuff. I can always get the Dragon 6779, too, if thatís an alternative Ďbestí way to go, and modify it appropriately. I will definitely post more this evening.
TopSmith
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Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 03:28 PM UTC
Thanks to some help from the forum members I discovered The "A" sprue on the 6779 kit is the same "A" spue on kit #6747, 6291, and 6265. All three kits come with seperate tires. Now you will need 32 for the road wheels and the tires for the spare road wheels and the DAK "D" will be ready to go. The next piece of dective work will be which track, the 36cm or the 40 cm. Friule had both listed for the "D" model.
Hangelafette
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 288 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2018 - 12:35 AM UTC
Hi Greg,

Checkout this thread over at Missing-Lynx: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/help-with-id-a-dak-panzer-iii-from-5-panzer-regime-t314989-s60.html
Page 7 has a bunch of pictures of panzer iv ausf d's with the 5 panzer regiment. They all have the 36cm track fitted.

Nate
alanmac
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United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 2,780 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2018 - 04:44 AM UTC
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/viewtopic.php?f=47207&t=52354&p=1297625&hilit=Dragon+DAK+Panzer+IV#p1297625

cabasner
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Nevada, United States
Joined: February 12, 2012
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Armorama: 770 posts
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2018 - 10:21 AM UTC
Okay all, thanks for all the additional information. However, I must admit that the info is causing me more confusion than clarity. If anyone REALLY understands the details, could you help me figure it out?

1. Do I have it correctly that the 6779 kit has tires that are too wide?
2. I don't have an understanding about the drive sprocket and idlers. Are they purported to be incorrect in the 6779 kit, too?
3. Are there any other details in 6779 that are incorrect as well?
TopSmith
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2018 - 12:33 PM UTC
Curt the correct idlers and road wheels are in the kit. The correct roadwheels are missing the tires. However The earlier "A", "C", and "D" kits have tires that fit. I believe the sprocket in the kit is for the 40 cm track so the sprockets from the "A", "c" and "D" should be just right.

My plan at this point is to call Dragon USA and order the tires and sprockets. Eduard makes a PE set for a "D" and order a set of Friule 36cm track.
Hangelafette
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 288 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2018 - 01:57 PM UTC
Greg,

The 6779 kit comes with 36 and 40 cm sprockets. The 36cm sprockets (parts A20 and A21, appropriate for an ausf E) are packaged with the correct road wheels and fit the DS track included with the kit.

Let us know if Dragon is willing to sell you the missing sprues. The other option would be buying a donor kit, Tristar/Hobby Boss panzer iv kits come with the correct road wheels, including separate tires that do fit the dragon road wheels. Tristar had a panzer iv wheel set but it is very hard to find.

-Nate

cabasner
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Nevada, United States
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Armorama: 770 posts
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2018 - 03:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Curt the correct idlers and road wheels are in the kit. The correct roadwheels are missing the tires. However The earlier "A", "C", and "D" kits have tires that fit. I believe the sprocket in the kit is for the 40 cm track so the sprockets from the "A", "c" and "D" should be just right.

My plan at this point is to call Dragon USA and order the tires and sprockets. Eduard makes a PE set for a "D" and order a set of Friule 36cm track.



Greg,

Thanks for the ideas. I just had another alternate idea, wondering what you, or others, might think of this one. I have an unopened Dragon 6301 (Vorpanzer) that can be built as a regular Ausf E. That one has the Tropen deck plates. Why not just build that without the vorpanzer extra armor...couldnít I just make that a DAK Panzer IV?