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Campaigns
Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
Proposal: Logistic
Lakota
#123
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New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 852 posts
Armorama: 474 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2018 - 02:11 PM UTC
I would vote for #3 except there's not color to it.
Therefore I vote for #1.
Still haven't decided what to build. I've got a few choices in the stash.
Thanks,
Don "Lakota"
petbat
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2018 - 03:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I believe the confusion on this matter stems from the limited exposure by many modeller's to the non-combat roles within the Defence Forces.




Fair comment. Most people would equate Logistics to their exposure in Civil use and as defined in common use definitions, such as from the good old Oxford Dictionary:

"Logistics

1.0 The detailed organization and implementation of a complex operation.

1.1 The activity of organizing the movement, equipment, and accommodation of troops.

1.2 The commercial activity of transporting goods to customers."

which is what I believe Martin's intent is.



I still like the idea of a separate dedicated engineer build in the future as that would have vary varied options with a lot of scope, from earthmoving up to vehicle recovery and then into combat engineering functions, laying or removing mines, bridge laying/building, etc.
accessdenied
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Nelson, New Zealand
Joined: December 07, 2016
KitMaker: 40 posts
Armorama: 35 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2018 - 04:37 PM UTC

Was just pondering and remembered a few more things that can cause confusion in the Logistics vs Combat Engineer debate:

Engineer vehicles of the likes of Motor Graders, Scrapers etc. were not defined as Combat Support vehicles in both the Logistic (parts purchasing/outsourcing repairs ++) and from the EME (Electrical Mechanical Engineers - for those unfamiliar with Commonwealth Corp) they were classed as C type vehicles when repairs were required (vehicle type and financial classification)(within NZDF).
That said I can easily see why people consider them 'Combat' support vehicles i.e. in the movie world they are often portrayed as "in the hot zone" busily repairing runways and such- think SeeBee's.
Another area that blurs these parameters is the fact that a number of Defence Forces now undertake more and more humanitarian missions - road building, building construction, and such forth so Engineering vehicles are no longer used in their primary role.
Just some tidbits of info on how some other Defence Forces classify equipment and is in no way meant to flame or undermine the Campaign Leaders decision.
As previously stated I'm more than happy to abide by the original decision. Have dozens more victims rolling about in my little noggin.


PS. Good idea about a dedicated "Engineer" campaign .
ayovtshev
#490
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Sofiya, Bulgaria
Joined: September 22, 2016
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Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2018 - 09:14 PM UTC
Not hijacking the topic, but I would gladly join a Campaign for Engineer's equipment...
BTW-I like the boxes for Logistics Campaign logo(Peter-the Guru of Campaign ribbons!!!)
accessdenied
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Nelson, New Zealand
Joined: December 07, 2016
KitMaker: 40 posts
Armorama: 35 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 11, 2018 - 09:44 PM UTC

and our beloved leader rolls his eyes and wonder's what this idiot is trying to pass as Logistic now .
Just a couple of thoughts:
Dedicated Snow removal vehicle ?
Rubbish/garbage removal vehicle ?
USAF Hybrid Dump Truck (undergoing evaluation; I'll admit - borderline ) ?

So those are a couple of my choices. I'll wait for the Campaign Leader to say yay or nay to examples as below :







Awaiting your orders Sir
Lakota
#123
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New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
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Armorama: 474 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 12, 2018 - 02:55 AM UTC
Howdy Y'all
Why not submit your kit to the leader and let him make a decision with a brief "yes" or "no". I doubt some subjects presented have even been kitted. If you have your heart set on an Engineering vehicle then save it for an Engineering campaign or start one yourself. I'd love to join in on one but I have plenty of "Logistics" kits to keep busy until then.
Just my 2 cents.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"
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Nelson, New Zealand
Joined: December 07, 2016
KitMaker: 40 posts
Armorama: 35 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2018 - 10:23 AM UTC
For those unfamiliar with the term Logistics I would recommend reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_logistics

Also not to put too much of a damper on those that wish to build a gun tractor/artillery tractor Tracked or wheeled) - sorry but under the US classification system (NSN, NIIN) they belong in the Combat system not Logistic or Combat Service Support.

Just hoping to clarify the Logistics system for those less familiar with it's complexity.
d6mst0
#453
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Texas, United States
Joined: August 28, 2016
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Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2018 - 02:01 PM UTC
I am up for it, been wanting to do a military truck for a while.

Mark
Kaktusas
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Joined: April 12, 2017
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Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2018 - 06:29 PM UTC
Im up for it aswell, got Skoda RSO waiting to be built
tinbanger
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: February 04, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2018 - 10:56 PM UTC
Count me in!
Namabiiru
#399
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: March 05, 2014
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Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2018 - 11:16 PM UTC
Enlisted!

RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2018 - 11:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

For those unfamiliar with the term Logistics I would recommend reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_logistics

Also not to put too much of a damper on those that wish to build a gun tractor/artillery tractor Tracked or wheeled) - sorry but under the US classification system (NSN, NIIN) they belong in the Combat system not Logistic or Combat Service Support.

Just hoping to clarify the Logistics system for those less familiar with it's complexity.



"Military logistics is the discipline of planning and carrying out the movement and maintenance of military forces. In its most comprehensive sense, it is those aspects or military operations that deal with:[1]

Design, development, acquisition, storage, distribution,
maintenance, evacuation, and disposition of materiel.
Transport of personnel.
Acquisition or construction, maintenance, operation,
and disposition of facilities.
Acquisition or furnishing of services.
Medical and health service support."

Transport of personnel .... hmmm
or construction of facilities

It would be smart to build something which clearly falls into the logistics area instead of some grey area in between.
A bus which is transporting soldiers is logistics, a 2.5 ton GMC CCKW tranporting soldiers could be logistics or combat. The difference would be in which unit owns the truck (bumper codes). One of the available GMC 2.5 ton truck kits has markings for the 'Red Ball Express' and that is a clear case of logistics.
/ Robin
Namabiiru
#399
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Rhode Island, United States
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Posted: Friday, August 24, 2018 - 05:18 AM UTC
Sounds like we're getting a bit hung up on the precise definition of Logistics when the campaign leader's intent seems to have been made pretty clear. Things that get other things where they need to be. Someone already made the suggestion that if you're not sure if something qualifies, ask the campaign leader. Sage advice.

I don't mean to quash valid discussion, but, hey, let's get to building, shall we?

JamesL27
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New York, United States
Joined: June 02, 2013
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Posted: Friday, August 24, 2018 - 09:14 AM UTC
I've got MiniArt's BZ-38 Refueler in the stash, I'll enter with that. My first time on campaign.
GulfWarrior
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Posted: Friday, August 24, 2018 - 09:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Sounds like we're getting a bit hung up on the precise definition of Logistics when the campaign leader's intent seems to have been made pretty clear. Things that get other things where they need to be. Someone already made the suggestion that if you're not sure if something qualifies, ask the campaign leader. Sage advice.

I don't mean to quash valid discussion, but, hey, let's get to building, shall we?





How 'bout anything that hauls the beans, bandages or bullets?
accessdenied
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Nelson, New Zealand
Joined: December 07, 2016
KitMaker: 40 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 24, 2018 - 04:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Sounds like we're getting a bit hung up on the precise definition of Logistics when the campaign leader's intent seems to have been made pretty clear.
I don't mean to quash valid discussion, but, hey, let's get to building, shall we?




Having spent quite some time within the Logistics Corp (my last posting being NZDF IC Procurement CS/CSS. Prior to that IC Procurement Clothing NZDF - Navy, Army, Airforce) I have a very clear knowledge of the term Logistics.
When you say as per the above quote, it's actually an incorrect intention i.e. arty tractors.
I'm more than sure that the ex-grunts/grunts get all upset when someone adds an incorrect piece of equipment to say a HUMVEE
So in terms of accuracy of the intended model to be made, clear, concise and accurate parameters need to be set.
The position I take is in no way intended to undermine or flame the Campaign Leader (whom I thank for getting the ball rolling).
As previously stated Logistics is a complex area to the uninitiated.
Namabiiru
#399
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Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2018 - 10:06 AM UTC
Well, Roger, I've got 30+ years of military service and still counting, so I also have an understanding of the complexities of logistics. My point is simply that we're not planning a major military operation here so it really doesn't matter what the definition of the word is. We can let that go and instead focus on modeling.

petbat
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2018 - 12:31 PM UTC
Maybe we need to change the build from Logistics to Linguistics

You are making good points guys, but how about we mellow and leave the salvo's for a while so the Campaign Leader crawl out of No Man's Land and adjudicate.


accessdenied
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Nelson, New Zealand
Joined: December 07, 2016
KitMaker: 40 posts
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Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2018 - 04:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Things that get other things where they need to be.



Well Mark you seem to destroy your most recent post by your comment in your previous post. Also if you have an "understanding" of Logistics then why are you so anti when someone questions the initial parameters ?.
Just saying .
I'll leave you all in peace now
Namabiiru
#399
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Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2018 - 11:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Maybe we need to change the build from Logistics to Linguistics



Too right, Peter!



Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Things that get other things where they need to be.



Well Mark you seem to destroy your most recent post by your comment in your previous post. Also if you have an "understanding" of Logistics then why are you so anti when someone questions the initial parameters ?.
Just saying .
I'll leave you all in peace now



Simply summarizing my understanding of the leader's intent; not the definition.

That said, I'm thinking I'd like to do some sort of fully tracked prime mover, like an M6, if I can find a decent one.

ivanhoe6
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Posted: Sunday, August 26, 2018 - 12:53 AM UTC
Do we have enough interested people for a campaign and has it been submitted yet?

There are SO many options, from horse drawn wagons to something huge like Meng's M-911 C-HET & M747 trailer or a 1/24th civilian 18 wheeler tractor trailer rigs.

This could be a fun one !
Namabiiru
#399
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Rhode Island, United States
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Posted: Sunday, August 26, 2018 - 12:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Do we have enough interested people for a campaign and has it been submitted yet?

There are SO many options, from horse drawn wagons to something huge like Meng's M-911 C-HET & M747 trailer or a 1/24th civilian 18 wheeler tractor trailer rigs.

This could be a fun one !



Indeed! Link to the campaign page is at the bottom of the first page of this thread.

ivanhoe6
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Posted: Sunday, August 26, 2018 - 03:39 AM UTC
OOOOpppppssss….. How did I miss that???


Thanks Mark !
Martinvidas
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Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Joined: February 13, 2011
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Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2018 - 12:50 AM UTC
I'm back after few weeks of "vacation".
I just want to be clear - logistic kind of vehicles are trucks, half-trucks and tracked machines for supporting the first line, but not an engineering vehicles. Every machine with a dozer is automatic engineering so it is no allowed for this campaign.
I just trying to make it clear.
Thank You
petbat
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2018 - 10:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm back after few weeks of "vacation".
I just want to be clear - logistic kind of vehicles are trucks, half-trucks and tracked machines for supporting the first line, but not an engineering vehicles. Every machine with a dozer is automatic engineering so it is no allowed for this campaign.
I just trying to make it clear.
Thank You




Thanks Martin.