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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
Hosted by Darren Baker
" Leopard 3" presented at EuroSatory
HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 3,251 posts
Armorama: 3,223 posts
Posted: Monday, June 11, 2018 - 05:00 PM UTC
https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/deutschland/militaer-verteidigung/id_83914894/leopard-hersteller-ueberrascht-mit-neuem-kampfpanzer.html

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/eurosatory-2018-franco-german-industry-unveils-new-euro-tank.562932/

A good opportunity to kitbash Tamiya`s "new" Leclerc with Meng`s Leopard 2 A7. How about adding a KMW FLW 200?
grunt136mike
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,690 posts
Armorama: 1,657 posts
Posted: Monday, June 11, 2018 - 05:51 PM UTC
Hi;

"HHHMMM"--Very Interesting; !! Altho I Do Not think this Partnership will Work ! It would be A problem for the Supply train for spare parts as well as agreeing on who is the most important component wise. Now you could reverse the idea and mount the 2A7 Turret on the Leclerc Hull.
Well in any case; It Gives us Armor Kit Basher's some thing to Ponder !!!!!!!

CHEERS; MIKE.
b2nhvi
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Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
KitMaker: 488 posts
Armorama: 419 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 10:21 AM UTC
If the turret is French will it have a wine rack in it? Little fold out table to serve the cheese?
JavierDeLuelmo
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Valencia, Spain / España
Joined: February 29, 2016
KitMaker: 128 posts
Armorama: 125 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 10:40 AM UTC
It's just a test-bed merging some of the proven technologies from both sides of the company for their future MBT. If everything goes by their plans, the real one won't look like this one.
mmeier
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: October 22, 2008
KitMaker: 1,222 posts
Armorama: 975 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 07:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

If the turret is French will it have a wine rack in it? Little fold out table to serve the cheese?



Definitly. One of the reasons this will not work. It simply clashes with the Bratwurst and Sauerkraut storage in the hull.

Not to mention it rules out british involvement, there is no place left for the tea and scones (Okay, scones count as ammo so...)
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 3,700 posts
Armorama: 3,197 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 08:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

If the turret is French will it have a wine rack in it? Little fold out table to serve the cheese?



Definitly. One of the reasons this will not work. It simply clashes with the Bratwurst and Sauerkraut storage in the hull.

Not to mention it rules out british involvement, there is no place left for the tea and scones (Okay, scones count as ammo so...)



120 mm canister rounds packed with scones, used against infantry ....
KruppCake
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: July 13, 2015
KitMaker: 322 posts
Armorama: 308 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 10:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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If the turret is French will it have a wine rack in it? Little fold out table to serve the cheese?



Definitly. One of the reasons this will not work. It simply clashes with the Bratwurst and Sauerkraut storage in the hull.

Not to mention it rules out british involvement, there is no place left for the tea and scones (Okay, scones count as ammo so...)



120 mm canister rounds packed with scones, used against infantry ....



And when low on those, the main gun is fully capable of firing stale baguettes.
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 3,700 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 10:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


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If the turret is French will it have a wine rack in it? Little fold out table to serve the cheese?



Definitly. One of the reasons this will not work. It simply clashes with the Bratwurst and Sauerkraut storage in the hull.

Not to mention it rules out british involvement, there is no place left for the tea and scones (Okay, scones count as ammo so...)



120 mm canister rounds packed with scones, used against infantry ....



And when low on those, the main gun is fully capable of firing stale baguettes.



Sub-caliber rounds, lethal stuff .....
Das_Abteilung
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United Kingdom
Joined: August 31, 2010
KitMaker: 291 posts
Armorama: 277 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 11:18 PM UTC
The only problem with firing baguettes is that they're cheese-seeking missiles and therefore very likely to become "friendly fire".

A half baguette has a better ballistic coefficient and a greater crust to crumb ratio ...................

Of course it's highly likely that we might see the latest-spec Leo turret grafted onto the Challenger 2 hull as the CR2 upgrade that is currently out to tender. Challenger 3?? Presumably with a switch to the NATO-standard smoothbore gun.
KruppCake
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: July 13, 2015
KitMaker: 322 posts
Armorama: 308 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 11:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The only problem with firing baguettes is that they're cheese-seeking missiles and therefore very likely to become "friendly fire".

A half baguette has a better ballistic coefficient and a greater crust to crumb ratio ...................

Of course it's highly likely that we might see the latest-spec Leo turret grafted onto the Challenger 2 hull as the CR2 upgrade that is currently out to tender. Challenger 3?? Presumably with a switch to the NATO-standard smoothbore gun.



Crust to crumb ratio...
TopSmith
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Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,060 posts
Armorama: 1,004 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 12:27 AM UTC
Some Frankensteined vehicles visually are a mess. This, however, looks like it originally designed this way. Nice job. I wonder if there is any ill will about whos turret or chassis was selected? I can only imagine the grumping if anyone elses turret was put on an M1A2 chassis.



RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 12:31 AM UTC
France and Germany started out with a collaboration project in the sixties. When they couldn´t agree on the requirements the development eventually split up and became the AMX-30 and Leopard 1.
Let's see if they can manage to make a compromise this time
/ Robin
kefran
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 29, 2003
KitMaker: 85 posts
Armorama: 83 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 01:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If the turret is French will it have a wine rack in it? Little fold out table to serve the cheese?



does the M1A2 got a Mc-Do and pizza hut facility in its turret ?
mogdude
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United States
Joined: June 18, 2012
KitMaker: 322 posts
Armorama: 154 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 01:04 AM UTC
The Brits could contribute there newest AFV defense system with the acronym S.P.O.T.T.E.D. D.I.C.K.
Bonaparte84
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Hessen, Germany
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 267 posts
Armorama: 261 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 01:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

France and Germany started out with a collaboration project in the sixties. When they couldn´t agree on the requirements the development eventually split up and became the AMX-30 and Leopard 1.
Let's see if they can manage to make a compromise this time
/ Robin



Well, that was 50 years ago, around the time France left NATO. This time around, things are pretty different, starting with the fact that the companies involved belong to the same group KNDS, the political pressure and the financial implications of such a project in times of limited military spending.
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 3,700 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 02:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

France and Germany started out with a collaboration project in the sixties. When they couldn´t agree on the requirements the development eventually split up and became the AMX-30 and Leopard 1.
Let's see if they can manage to make a compromise this time
/ Robin



Well, that was 50 years ago, around the time France left NATO. This time around, things are pretty different, starting with the fact that the companies involved belong to the same group KNDS, the political pressure and the financial implications of such a project in times of limited military spending.



The odds are a lot better this time
tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,012 posts
Armorama: 2,428 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 03:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

120 mm canister rounds packed with scones, used against infantry ....


Sorry, but those were outlawed by the 1903 Geneva Convention as a weapon of mass gastronomy and have been banned in all civilised countries since then.

Mind you, apparently the Defence Forces of the Isle of Mann have retained their M1899 Krupp Sconenwerfers in reserve for the last 115 years.
Sleepwalker71
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Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: August 30, 2012
KitMaker: 147 posts
Armorama: 132 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 04:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

120 mm canister rounds packed with scones, used against infantry ....


Sorry, but those were outlawed by the 1903 Geneva Convention as a weapon of mass gastronomy and have been banned in all civilised countries since then.

Mind you, apparently the Defence Forces of the Isle of Mann have retained their M1899 Krupp Sconenwerfers in reserve for the last 115 years.



If the scones load would be inedible, camel ass-dry type then it is easy to overcome any Convention. Having more impact thus making soft skin vehicles vulnerable too.
tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,012 posts
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 01:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

120 mm canister rounds packed with scones, used against infantry ....


Sorry, but those were outlawed by the 1903 Geneva Convention as a weapon of mass gastronomy and have been banned in all civilised countries since then.

Mind you, apparently the Defence Forces of the Isle of Mann have retained their M1899 Krupp Sconenwerfers in reserve for the last 115 years.



If the scones load would be inedible, camel ass-dry type then it is easy to overcome any Convention. Having more impact thus making soft skin vehicles vulnerable too.


Yes, but then you'd need to be firing high-velocity tea cosy stabilised scones to have any real effect on modern layer cake armour.
afvaficionado
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New Zealand
Joined: February 16, 2010
KitMaker: 123 posts
Armorama: 122 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 01:01 PM UTC
"does the M1A2 got a Mc-Do and pizza hut facility in its turret ?"
The US Army has recently released a new MRE menu item - Pepperoni Pizza - https://www.military.com/kitup/2018/05/31/heres-everything-new-pizza-mre-headed-field-soon.html - so the pizza hut facility will likely be available in all vehicles.

Mal
KruppCake
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: July 13, 2015
KitMaker: 322 posts
Armorama: 308 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 01:16 PM UTC
I think they need to revisit the Char2C and Tog II with their vehicle designs. That way they’ll be able to fit a full restaurant, lounge, sleeping cabin, and Olympic size pool in one vehicle.