Dragon presents two new Sherman kits, the M4A1 DV and the M4A1 from El Alamein
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Dragon: New Shermans
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Monday, June 11, 2018 - 07:52 PM UTC
Dragon presents two new Sherman kits, the M4A1 DV and the M4A1 from El Alamein
Read the Full News Story
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, June 11, 2018 - 08:22 PM UTC
"The new Dragon US M4A1 DV has been boosted with the newly tooled Magic Tracks. In fact, this is one of the first Sherman kits on which these Magic Tracks have been made available, and these brand new links are both extremely accurate and very easy to assemble."
That is simply awesome!
I hope these tracks will be available separately!
/ Robin
That is simply awesome!
I hope these tracks will be available separately!
/ Robin
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Monday, June 11, 2018 - 08:35 PM UTC
With one or two exceptions, I prefer link and length or rubber band tracks for live tracks. I am happy to see these kits being re-released, though.
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, June 11, 2018 - 08:48 PM UTC
I glue the link tracks solid anyway so the top run will be straight and then I don't need to worry about the DS or vinyl or whatever mixture they used falling to pieces after some years.
There are a few other Shermans in the stash who could benefit from new tracks
/ Robin
There are a few other Shermans in the stash who could benefit from new tracks
/ Robin
Pave-Hawk
Joined: May 05, 2006
KitMaker: 900 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Monday, June 11, 2018 - 08:53 PM UTC
So they are re-releasing these kits with magic tracks to replace the DS tracks?
I am not seeing anything else that would make these "new" kits.
I am not seeing anything else that would make these "new" kits.
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Monday, June 11, 2018 - 09:17 PM UTC
Love that advertising hyperbole. Change one thing and it's "new" and "improved ". So the tracks look to have molded on end connectors both straight and angled. Interesting.
Now is this one step forward, two steps back? The reissue of dead track tanks have DS track and the reissue of live track tanks have Magic track?
Maybe some kind of passive-aggressive reaction from Dragon?
Now is this one step forward, two steps back? The reissue of dead track tanks have DS track and the reissue of live track tanks have Magic track?
Maybe some kind of passive-aggressive reaction from Dragon?
Hederstierna
#247
Joined: January 03, 2008
KitMaker: 1,102 posts
Armorama: 1,018 posts
Posted: Monday, June 11, 2018 - 09:39 PM UTC
I, for one, am very happy to see the Magic Tracks are back in buisnes, especially if they are re-tooled, and if they also produce the T51 types 
Jacob
Jacob
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, June 11, 2018 - 10:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Love that advertising hyperbole. Change one thing and it's "new" and "improved ". So the tracks look to have molded on end connectors both straight and angled. Interesting.
Now is this one step forward, two steps back? The reissue of dead track tanks have DS track and the reissue of live track tanks have Magic track?
Maybe some kind of passive-aggressive reaction from Dragon?
Maybe it is indeed only a marketing gimmick, a ploy they think they can get away with since most kits just end up in the stash anyway
/ Robin
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 12:07 AM UTC
Hopefully this time around I can get them. Last time I bought a Monogram Sherman for nostalgia. 
sgtreef
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 12:58 AM UTC
Is this a retool of the Old Italeri kit?
Which I have read was close as heck except for the tracks.
Cheers
Jeff
Which I have read was close as heck except for the tracks.
Cheers
Jeff
Soojet
Joined: March 22, 2018
KitMaker: 22 posts
Armorama: 20 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 01:15 AM UTC
I have yet to use Dragon's DS Tracks, are they really so bad that these kits need to be reissued with Magic Tracks?
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 01:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have yet to use Dragon's DS Tracks, are they really so bad that these kits need to be reissued with Magic Tracks?
I used them, on a build four years ago. They have held up just fine.
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 01:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Is this a retool of the Old Italeri kit?
Which I have read was close as heck except for the tracks.
Cheers
Jeff
The very, very first Dragon Shermans used the Italeri hull and suspension. Bit by bit as they went on they tooled new bits. By the time these came there was nothing left.
See Perth military modeling for complete write ups and reviews and sprue pictures of these. These last few Sherman's in the opinion of some rivaled the Tasca ones.
I have most of the evolution of the Dragon Sherman's in the stash as well as Italeri kits.
Buckeyes57
Joined: September 14, 2010
KitMaker: 135 posts
Armorama: 130 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 03:31 AM UTC
Which one is the Lima Locomotive Works version the M4A1 DV or the M4A1 from El Alamein or both?
Thanks
Thanks
Buckeyes57
Joined: September 14, 2010
KitMaker: 135 posts
Armorama: 130 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 03:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Which one is the Lima Locomotive Works version the M4A1 DV or the M4A1 from El Alamein or both?
Thanks
Nevermind according to the Dragon website the M4A1 DV is the LLW version.
Pave-Hawk
Joined: May 05, 2006
KitMaker: 900 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 09:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextWhich one is the Lima Locomotive Works version the M4A1 DV or the M4A1 from El Alamein or both?
Thanks
Nevermind according to the Dragon website the M4A1 DV is the LLW version.
That would make both LLW Sherman's then. The El Alamein Sherman is the same kit with extra bits for sand shields and British markings.
Taeuss
Joined: January 03, 2016
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 3,778 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 09:44 AM UTC
The El Alamein Sherman has been out for several years now so is this an update or simply a reissue? The green tank crew must be thrilled.
multibank17pdr
Joined: February 06, 2010
KitMaker: 127 posts
Armorama: 119 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 06:00 PM UTC
Except the magic tracks, both kits look very, very close to the Dragon 6404 and 6447 releases in 2008. Much improved versions of the Dragon first M4A1 early (ref. 6048) but this old kit was providing the rounded rear plate (where it joins the lower hull) which is typical of M4 from Lima Locomotive works (LLW) and Pacific Cars & Foundry according to Sherman's historians (Zaloga, Laughin, Stansell...).
It seems that Dragon 6404 and 6447 only provide the angled rear panel (part C13 in 6447 kit) which is correct for M4A1 DV from Pressed Steel Car Company.
In fact the first 400 M4A1 DV produced at Lima were sent to the British, so depicting a British direct vision Sherman from El Alamein may require a proper rounded plate ?
And in terms of fit and joy to build, no Dragon sherman can rival with Tasca/Asuka releases, leaving apart any accuracy "nuts & bolts" issues for DML kits that are beyond my knowledge
It seems that Dragon 6404 and 6447 only provide the angled rear panel (part C13 in 6447 kit) which is correct for M4A1 DV from Pressed Steel Car Company.
In fact the first 400 M4A1 DV produced at Lima were sent to the British, so depicting a British direct vision Sherman from El Alamein may require a proper rounded plate ?
And in terms of fit and joy to build, no Dragon sherman can rival with Tasca/Asuka releases, leaving apart any accuracy "nuts & bolts" issues for DML kits that are beyond my knowledge
Buckeyes57
Joined: September 14, 2010
KitMaker: 135 posts
Armorama: 130 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 12:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
And in terms of fit and joy to build, no Dragon sherman can rival with Tasca/Asuka releases, leaving apart any accuracy "nuts & bolts" issues for DML kits that are beyond my knowledge
In your opinion if I wanted to build a LLW Sherman I should look into this kit by Asuka? ASUKA Model - Nr. 35-014
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/954800-asuka-model-35-014-sherman-ii
avenue
Joined: May 25, 2013
KitMaker: 544 posts
Armorama: 542 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 03:09 AM UTC
Is dragon ever consider making sherman with mine roller?
multibank17pdr
Joined: February 06, 2010
KitMaker: 127 posts
Armorama: 119 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 05:28 AM UTC
In your opinion if I wanted to build a LLW Sherman I should look into this kit by Asuka? ASUKA Model - Nr. 35-014
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/954800-asuka-model-35-014-sherman-ii
[/quote]
I will always favor a Tasca M4 instead of a Dragon ones as long as M4 versions are comparable. Tasca has unfortunately stopped developing their M4 range some years ago (Asuka is just reboxing today) and, for example, at the time being, Dragon is providing the best M4A3 Wet hull 75 mm plastic kit for an OOB built. But its M4A4 and/or Vc Firefly better be avoided if accuracy is a concern.
Regarding the M4A1 DV/Sherman mk III you are asking for, Tasca/Asuka offer is superb and provide bolted panels for the lower hull (welded later)... but, if you want a Lima version, you should, at least, need to tweak the rear plate (angled in the kit) or buy a resin updated part like the one provided by TMD :
https://tigermodeldesigns.com/product/35-1082-m4a1-rear-plate-for-lima-and-pcf-asu/
Hope this help
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/954800-asuka-model-35-014-sherman-ii
[/quote]
I will always favor a Tasca M4 instead of a Dragon ones as long as M4 versions are comparable. Tasca has unfortunately stopped developing their M4 range some years ago (Asuka is just reboxing today) and, for example, at the time being, Dragon is providing the best M4A3 Wet hull 75 mm plastic kit for an OOB built. But its M4A4 and/or Vc Firefly better be avoided if accuracy is a concern.
Regarding the M4A1 DV/Sherman mk III you are asking for, Tasca/Asuka offer is superb and provide bolted panels for the lower hull (welded later)... but, if you want a Lima version, you should, at least, need to tweak the rear plate (angled in the kit) or buy a resin updated part like the one provided by TMD :
https://tigermodeldesigns.com/product/35-1082-m4a1-rear-plate-for-lima-and-pcf-asu/
Hope this help
multibank17pdr
Joined: February 06, 2010
KitMaker: 127 posts
Armorama: 119 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 05:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Is dragon ever consider making sherman with mine roller?
Don't know about Dragon but I am sure you remember that :
Verliden used to offer an (old and tricky) resin conversion to built and M4 Mine roller T1E3 (famous M4A1 Aunt Gemina picture)
Resicast (Belgium) is today offering a superb Crab flail conversion for a commonwealth M4A4 Mine Roller (more accurate and better manufactured than the Legend one's)
And that, thanks to Armorama, we learned about Bold division T10 offer :
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/news/26667
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 08:42 AM UTC
IIRC Asuka's kit has a riveted lower hull, which was characterisitic of PSC-built tanks well into 1943. Lima always used welded lower hulls, with a curved transition at the base of the lower tail plate. That type of hull was offered on Dragon's ancient M4A1 kit, as well as the original versions of their M4 Compsosite hull and M4 Composite Firefly from 15+ years ago. Their current Shermans all offer the 45-degree angled lower tail plate transition.
multibank17pdr
Joined: February 06, 2010
KitMaker: 127 posts
Armorama: 119 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 05:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
IIRC Asuka's kit has a riveted lower hull, which was characterisitic of PSC-built tanks well into 1943. Lima always used welded lower hulls, with a curved transition at the base of the lower tail plate. That type of hull was offered on Dragon's ancient M4A1 kit, as well as the original versions of their M4 Compsosite hull and M4 Composite Firefly from 15+ years ago. Their current Shermans all offer the 45-degree angled lower tail plate transition.
Thanks Gerald for confirming this point... sanding the rivet on Tasca mk II Dv kit is not a big deal and/or buying a spare low hull from their M4 hybrid issue (35027) is even easier and will save this initial Pressed Steel Car's riveted lower hull for an other project
available at http://tasca-shop.ocnk.net/product/276
PS : the lower hull from Tasca/Asuka 35027 is also offering the he 45-degree angled lower tail plate transition... so a rounded plate (e.g. from TMD) is needed for a Lima version.
Buckeyes57
Joined: September 14, 2010
KitMaker: 135 posts
Armorama: 130 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 05:02 AM UTC
Thank you all for the great information for the LLW version. I have talked with TMD and I ordered their Michael conversion and I am going to use the ASUKA Model - Nr. 35-014 as the base.
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