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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Cathedral's Steps to be made from Nazi Tanks
BootsDMS
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 02:33 AM UTC
The above title is taken from an article in today's (UK) The Times newspaper; it reports that the steps for a newly planned cathedral - the "Main Cathedral of the Armed Forces" - and construction has begun - will be made from "German trophy hardware". The Times correspondent reports that these are Nazi tanks.

Apart from wanting to scream out "Noooo" I just wonder how many the Russians have kept all these years, but also hope that the steps are not too large.
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 02:47 AM UTC
This is really the most stupid topic started ever.
BootsDMS
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 04:15 AM UTC
OK,

I posted this as I thought it might be interesting; speculative I admit, but it does imply that the Russians somewhere, have a collection of Wehrmacht vehicles. We all know the Russians never throw any military kit away, but the image of collections of German armour - outside of Kubinka - was instigated by the newspaper article.

My rather careless title typo, I admit probably doesn't help much ("form" should read "from").

Of course, it might be that it's just a few old PzKw III turrets languishing around the back of Kubinka that are to be melted down and turned into steps; one would hate to think that say, a running and serviceable Panther was to meet this fate. Again, speculation, but someone, somewhere, might be able to add to this; I'm constantly surprised at the information available on this site, and hitherto, the good manners.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 04:28 AM UTC
Typo in title corrected.

I think it was interesting news, thanks for posting.

The Soviet Union captured a LOT of German armour plate in various sizes and shapes, a lot of it in the shape of bits and pieces of blown up tanks.
I am surprised that some of it, i.e. not the museum pieces, has evaded the smelting ovens until now.
I believe that the Russians have enough "bizniz-men" skills to realise the collector value of anything remotely serviceable or restorable.

Metal is metal and when re-melted to make something new it has no inherent moral or ethic properties, in my opinion.
I don't know what kind of symbolic meaning the Russians put into it. Stepping on the metal taken from the weapons of historic enemies when going to church seems a little strange. What point are they trying to make? "We defile our cathedral with the armour taken from Hitlers evil empire"?
Especially when considering this text:
Romans 12:17-21
"Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

On the other hand, metal is metal, and sometimes it is heavy
;-)
Maybe it is some of the pieces seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxQ6E1v2Rq4


/ Robin
JohnTapsell
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 04:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The above title is taken from an article in today's (UK) The Times newspaper; it reports that the steps for a newly planned cathedral - the "Main Cathedral of the Armed Forces" - and construction has begun - will be made from "German trophy hardware". The Times correspondent reports that these are Nazi tanks.

Apart from wanting to scream out "Noooo" I just wonder how many the Russians have kept all these years, but also hope that the steps are not too large.



I think you're assuming that the report is entirely accurate. I'm sure that The Times was given a selection of information by the relevant press office, but until we actually see tanks being melted down and re-purposed, I'd be very wary about taking the report at face value.

There is also an element of posturing here - by stating that the steps of a cathedral will be made from German relics, it is subtly reinforcing and playing on a tender spot in the Russian pysche and harking back to the Great Patriotic War, with all the angst and fear of foreign invaders that comes with those memories.

Regards,
John
BootsDMS
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 05:10 AM UTC
Chaps,

Thank you for your responses; I was going to link the article but The Times is hidden behind a paywall so is a little frustrating, and I'm afraid I can't be bothered to copy the article all out. That said, the correspondent goes on to say and quotes:

"President Putin is behind the project and in September said that it would be 'one more symbol of the indestructability of our national traditions, of our loyalty to the memory of our forefathers, and their achievements'."

The article continues and mention the Patron Saint of the Strategic Missile Troops (!) the Great Martyr Saint Barbara in case you wondered, and finishes with the following paragraphs:

"Using trophy weapons is not unknown. After the Russo-Turkish War of 1828-1829 a fence made from Turkish cannon barrels was put up around the Transfiguration cathedral in St Petersburg. Alexander Kobak, a historian, told the Fontanka website that the steps would be a 'strange continuation of the tradition' because the cannons were erected two or three years after that war 'not 73 years after the victory over fascism'"

(having said that I wouldn't re-type the thing I've nearly gone and done it).

But yes, metal is metal and what they do with it is, of course, entirely their affair; it was just the imagery of something rare (and even running) that was conjured up in my all too febrile brain!


Thanks again - both pretty much spot on.

Brian