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Dioramas
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
Question/advice
cheyenne
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 01:15 AM UTC
I want to build a 1/35th scale bar in Hawaii during WW2 . I want to put ships on shelves behind the bar . I know they make 1/144 , 1/1200 , scale model ships . My question is , what scale model ship would work for this ?

RobinNilsson
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 01:40 AM UTC
Well, assume that the ship model was reasonably large, say 1/192 (or 1/16 of an inch equals 1 foot).
In the real bar the model would have a length of 1/196th of the real ship (a battleship would be 3 to 4 feet long).
Now scale down the whole bar to 1/35, i.e. divide everything by 35. The scale model which was already reduced to 1/196th would now be reduced a further 1/35th or 1/(196 x 35) = 1/6860th
I think that the smallest commercially available is 1/1200 or 1/1250 but I could be wrong.
The USS Maryland was 190 meters long, a 6 foot sailor in 1/35 is 5.2 cm tall. If we let the model of USS Maryland be 6 foot long, and that is a hefty model to squeeze in among the bottles and mirrors, the scale would be 1/3636.

A USS Maryland in 1/1250 would be 15.2 cm, nearly 6 inches which would mean 5.32 meters (or 17 feet) long.
That ship model would be as large as the bar counter.

Conclusion: Get a small scale model of the ship you would like to display in the bar and make a copy of it which is 1 or maybe 2 inches long (2 inches is close to a 1/96th scale model of a battleship).

Take a look at your hand and compare it with the size of the main turrets on Trumpeters 1/200 USS Nevada. Two of those turrets fit in your hand. Now consider the size of the hands of the model sailors in your bar, they should be able to hold at least one, maybe two of those turrets form the model in the bar ....


/ Robin
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 01:45 AM UTC
Considering that a Spruance-class destroyer is about 120cm long in 1/144 scale, I guess you may look for 1/2400 scale stuff...

Here are some examples :

http://www.alnavco.com/2400GHQWW2.asp

http://www.alnavco.com/SBLINER.asp

You can even find 3D-printed 1/3000 scale ships...

http://www.3d-models-games.com/models.html

H.P.
vettejack
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 01:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well, assume that the ship model was reasonably large, say 1/192 (or 1/16 of an inch equals 1 foot).
In the real bar the model would have a length of 1/196th of the real ship (a battleship would be 3 to 4 feet long).
Now scale down the whole bar to 1/35, i.e. divide everything by 35. The scale model which was already reduced to 1/196th would now be reduced a further 1/35th or 1/(196 x 35) = 1/6860th
I think that the smallest commercially available is 1/1200 or 1/1250 but I could be wrong.
The USS Maryland was 190 meters long, a 6 foot sailor in 1/35 is 5.2 cm tall. If we let the model of USS Maryland be 6 foot long, and that is a hefty model to squeeze in among the bottles and mirrors, the scale would be 1/3636.

A USS Maryland in 1/1250 would be 15.2 cm, nearly 6 inches which would mean 5.32 meters (or 17 feet) long.
That ship model would be as large as the bar counter.

Conclusion: Get a small scale model of the ship you would like to display in the bar and make a copy of it which is 1 or maybe 2 inches long (2 inches is close to a 1/96th scale model of a battleship).

Take a look at your hand and compare it with the size of the main turrets on Trumpeters 1/200 USS Nevada. Two of those turrets fit in your hand. Now consider the size of the hands of the model sailors in your bar, they should be able to hold at least one, maybe two of those turrets form the model in the bar ....

/ Robin

/ Robin



Cheese and rice Robin...all that math made my head hurt!
Bravo1102
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 02:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Well, assume that the ship model was reasonably large, say 1/192 (or 1/16 of an inch equals 1 foot).
In the real bar the model would have a length of 1/196th of the real ship (a battleship would be 3 to 4 feet long).
Now scale down the whole bar to 1/35, i.e. divide everything by 35. The scale model which was already reduced to 1/196th would now be reduced a further 1/35th or 1/(196 x 35) = 1/6860th
I think that the smallest commercially available is 1/1200 or 1/1250 but I could be wrong.
The USS Maryland was 190 meters long, a 6 foot sailor in 1/35 is 5.2 cm tall. If we let the model of USS Maryland be 6 foot long, and that is a hefty model to squeeze in among the bottles and mirrors, the scale would be 1/3636.

A USS Maryland in 1/1250 would be 15.2 cm, nearly 6 inches which would mean 5.32 meters (or 17 feet) long.
That ship model would be as large as the bar counter.

Conclusion: Get a small scale model of the ship you would like to display in the bar and make a copy of it which is 1 or maybe 2 inches long (2 inches is close to a 1/96th scale model of a battleship).

Take a look at your hand and compare it with the size of the main turrets on Trumpeters 1/200 USS Nevada. Two of those turrets fit in your hand. Now consider the size of the hands of the model sailors in your bar, they should be able to hold at least one, maybe two of those turrets form the model in the bar ....

/ Robin

/ Robin



Cheese and rice Robin...all that math made my head hurt!



Really required a chalkboard and a pointer.

I've done some 1/6 dioramas and 1/2000 works for that scale. But a typical /35 scale figure is 2 inches tall which equals a foot so they can be used them as 1/6.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 02:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Considering that a Spruance-class destroyer is about 120cm long in 1/144 scale, I guess you may look for 1/2400 scale stuff...

Here are some examples :

http://www.alnavco.com/2400GHQWW2.asp

http://www.alnavco.com/SBLINER.asp

You can even find 3D-printed 1/3000 scale ships...

http://www.3d-models-games.com/models.html

H.P.



1/3000 would be slightly large but still possible ...
165thspc
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 02:15 AM UTC
Just trying to help you see the details a bit better - good luck on your project - I like it!

cheyenne
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 02:33 AM UTC
Thanks guys , much appreciated . I'm thinking then a 1/2400 , 1/3000 preferably , just might work as a large ship model on a shelf centered high up on the back bar wall . The dio being in Hawaii , I really would like to go with the Arizona or Texas , a ship built prior to 1941 .

I knew you R&D guys would come through !!!
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 02:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I really would like to go with the Arizona or Texas , a ship built prior to 1941 .



Both are available in the GHQ 1/2400 scale range.

You can also find some 1/4800 scale models of the US battleships anchored in Pearl Harbor in December 41 on Shapeways (the 1/4800 scale Arizona should be around 38mm long ) :

https://www.shapeways.com/product/JAPKQSASR/us-wwii-battleship-row-1941-9-ships?li=shareProduct

H.P.
Biggles2
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 04:26 AM UTC
Shouldn't be too hard to scratch-build some 1" long ships - in 1/35 scale they would be about 3' long. A few reference photos or drawings, and some bits of scrap styrene would do. No need for fine detail, or deck rails!
Scarred
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 05:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Well, assume that the ship model was reasonably large, say 1/192 (or 1/16 of an inch equals 1 foot).
In the real bar the model would have a length of 1/196th of the real ship (a battleship would be 3 to 4 feet long).
Now scale down the whole bar to 1/35, i.e. divide everything by 35. The scale model which was already reduced to 1/196th would now be reduced a further 1/35th or 1/(196 x 35) = 1/6860th
I think that the smallest commercially available is 1/1200 or 1/1250 but I could be wrong.
The USS Maryland was 190 meters long, a 6 foot sailor in 1/35 is 5.2 cm tall. If we let the model of USS Maryland be 6 foot long, and that is a hefty model to squeeze in among the bottles and mirrors, the scale would be 1/3636.

A USS Maryland in 1/1250 would be 15.2 cm, nearly 6 inches which would mean 5.32 meters (or 17 feet) long.
That ship model would be as large as the bar counter.

Conclusion: Get a small scale model of the ship you would like to display in the bar and make a copy of it which is 1 or maybe 2 inches long (2 inches is close to a 1/96th scale model of a battleship).

Take a look at your hand and compare it with the size of the main turrets on Trumpeters 1/200 USS Nevada. Two of those turrets fit in your hand. Now consider the size of the hands of the model sailors in your bar, they should be able to hold at least one, maybe two of those turrets form the model in the bar ....

/ Robin

/ Robin



Cheese and rice Robin...all that math made my head hurt!



Really required a chalkboard and a pointer.

I've done some 1/6 dioramas and 1/2000 works for that scale. But a typical /35 scale figure is 2 inches tall which equals a foot so they can be used them as 1/6.



Way to go Robin, I think I suffered a stroke doing this on paper before I broke out my scientific graphic calculator and when I was poking in the numbers it said 'stop stop you have no idea what you are doing' and shut itself off.
Jberardi
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 05:38 AM UTC
Cheyenne:
I really like the idea of the bar setting. It's nice to see the occasional non-combat diorama. The model within the model should be a cool touch.
cheyenne
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 05:54 AM UTC
Scratching is always a thought .
Frenchy I checked out Shapeways and a battleship in 1/2400 measures out to 4.4 inches , too big , the 1/3000 checks in at 2 and one quarter inches , much more believable for a model ship on a shelf .
Jim , yeah I'm liking this idea . Thing is the ref pic caption
said " Hawaii bar 1941 " . It looks more like a Marine base rec canteen .
Either way mine will be a bar with some interesting additions , I'll need a jukebox , pool table and something else I won't give away just yet , still thinking and planning .
I just really liked the photo and I'll go from there .
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 06:06 AM UTC
On a side note, some of the Pearl Harbor "Battleship Row" ships in 1/4800 scale are available separately.

https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace/miniatures/ships?facet%5BpdcId%5D%5B0%5D=169&s=156#more-products

Verlinden 1/35 Salon Furniture set #2201 includes a juke-box :



H.P.
165thspc
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2019 - 04:09 PM UTC
Of course the ship's wheel with the mirror should be no problem if you should chose to go that way. That bar has all kinds of tobacco products displayed behind the bar but I think a half dozen ship models displayed on either side of the ship's wheel would look fantastic!

To me the biggest challenge in that whole photograph will be the furniture (chairs and stools) in the room.

As to all the figures required: The figure set that comes with the Tamiya Famo, although German I think they would fit right in with some small alterations. Sand off their coat tails below the belt and you have tucked in shirts rather than jackets. Then paint the uniforms tan/kaki rather than green and you've got it. In the set two men are standing and I believe six are sitting. If you could find two or three such sets you would have your bar crowd. Extra arms are included in the set in order to achieve different poses. There is a fair chance Tamiya would sell them to you directly as replacement sprues.

Here are four of the seated Famo figures as an example:



p.s. The little dog comes from the Tamiya AM set for the Deuce and a Half.
cheyenne
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2019 - 11:40 PM UTC
Thanks Frenchy , the 1/3000 scale ships I've been sourcing are very poor on detail . They're meant for table top gaming and to me are very loose adaptions of the ships they are supposed to represent .
However if I 86 my want of a battleship and choose a destroyer or similar sized vessel in 1/2400 the detail is a lot better and the lengths drop to anywhere from 2 to 3 inches which would be doable for my purpose .
I forgot about that Verlinden jukebox , thanks for reminding me Frenchy , now all I have to do is find one of the oop kits that don't cost a small fortune . My first thought was to challenge myself and scratch one .

Mike , ship's wheel is a must and will be scratched . Good idea on the figure morphing . I was looking at a kit of Dragons halftrack riders I have and thinking the same thing .
Furniture is no problem , chairs and tables I can manage to scratch . The Marine sun helmets will have to be scratched , don't know if they wore them off base on liberty though .

All great ideas and help from the Armorama r&d go to guys , you guys are the best !!!

Check list for a Hawaiian bar in the 40's ......
Ceiling fans
Coat trees
Behind the bar grill
Pool table
Walk-in freezer/cooler
Cash register
Juke box
Hookers
Period pictures on the wall
Ten foot something long dinosaur surfboard

Anything else maybe ?
cheyenne
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2019 - 11:53 PM UTC
Ooooops , almost forgot , a special thanks to you Robin for the math , ...... I think . Just kidding you're R&D posts on any subject are always welcome , informative and appreciated .
Tank1812
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Posted: Saturday, February 16, 2019 - 12:12 AM UTC
I like the idea. I would not 96 the battleship idea, best I recall and will probably be proven wrong but Marines didn't serve on destroyers or similar ships only carriers (don't know about in 1941 but they did later during the war on smaller flat tops) and battleships, so in a Marine bar I would expect to see those types as we served on them and would not have cared about other Navy ship we didn't. I would go with a banana war battleship myself, the thought would have been one 'latest' battles Marines would have fought in with a battleship. Course the China/Russian deployments might work being pacific area but I don't recall the use of battleships with those deployments.

I doubt the pith helmets would have been authorized off base but a number of guys are wearing covers indoors and they don't appear to be armed. Not sure about the regs in those days but today that would be a no go.

HTH
cheyenne
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Posted: Saturday, February 16, 2019 - 03:59 AM UTC
Ryan you're right about the Marines and ships , also the helmets.
This ref photo I have was captioned " Hawaii bar 1941 " , clearly it's not , it looks more like a Marine base canteen . The structure of the building , the propped open shutters , the helmet , sodas etc The ref photo was just an inspiration for what I want to build . What I want to build is a town bar with Marine , Naval , Army and Army Air Corp patrons , so any ship will fit . When I'm along with this the main focus will be the surprise element , not telling yet no teasers .
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Saturday, February 16, 2019 - 04:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ryan you're right about the Marines and ships , also the helmets.
This ref photo I have was captioned " Hawaii bar 1941 " , clearly it's not , it looks more like a Marine base canteen . The structure of the building , the propped open shutters , the helmet , sodas etc The ref photo was just an inspiration for what I want to build . What I want to build is a town bar with Marine , Naval , Army and Army Air Corp patrons , so any ship will fit . When I'm along with this the main focus will be the surprise element , not telling yet no teasers .



I hope things work out for you as far as the 1/35 "model ships" and the whole dio itself are concerned.

Wow- Marine, Naval, Army and USAAC personnel, circa 1941! Sounds like a "bar fight" waiting to happen...
cheyenne
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Posted: Saturday, February 16, 2019 - 04:23 AM UTC
Wow Dennis , right outta the gate your guess is very close , yet , horseshoes and hand grenades close . Not a bar fight per say , [ I say no clues and what do I do , drop a dime sortta ] , but you did give me food for thought on a future build , thanks man !!!
Remember your guess when the time comes to see what I'm doing .