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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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M60A1 RISE Questions
27-1025
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2019 - 06:09 AM UTC
Starting a build of a M60A1 RISE circa 1980-81 using the Takom kit as my base. Iím wanting to use a set of aluminum road wheels from AFV Club and aluminum side loading air cleaners. I know the turret has the grab rails and gas can racks on the sides. Do I add a search light or leave it off? Did the RISE tanks of that time period have the smoke discharges? Pictures seem a bit confusing to me on the subject.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2019 - 06:29 AM UTC
By that time, early '80s, the M60A1 RISE tanks had top-loading air cleaners, steel wheels, and smoke launchers/smoke grenade storage boxes. It would most likely be an M60A1 RISE/PASSIVE (introduced in '77) by that time. Passive tanks also included passive night vision sights for gunner and commander, kevilar spall liners for the turret, the VEESS smoke generation system, a new night vision device for the driver, a deep water fording kit and the capability to mount Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA).
27-1025
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2019 - 06:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

By that time, early '80s, the M60A1 RISE tanks had top-loading air cleaners, steel wheels, and smoke launchers/smoke grenade storage boxes. It would most likely be an M60A1 RISE/PASSIVE (introduced in '77) by that time. Passive tanks also included passive night vision sights for gunner and commander, kevilar spall liners for the turret, the VEESS smoke generation system, a new night vision device for the driver, a deep water fording kit and the capability to mount Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA).



Thanks. Making a list since Iím just getting started on this build. So most likely the pics that have the aluminum wheels and side loaders are straight up M60A1s and from an earlier time period?
panamadan
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2019 - 06:57 AM UTC
I served on ĎA3ís in the mid Ď80ís and we had a mix of steel and aluminum.
Dan
Kevlar06
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2019 - 07:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

By that time, early '80s, the M60A1 RISE tanks had top-loading air cleaners, steel wheels, and smoke launchers/smoke grenade storage boxes. It would most likely be an M60A1 RISE/PASSIVE (introduced in '77) by that time. Passive tanks also included passive night vision sights for gunner and commander, kevilar spall liners for the turret, the VEESS smoke generation system, a new night vision device for the driver, a deep water fording kit and the capability to mount Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA).



Thanks. Making a list since Iím just getting started on this build. So most likely the pics that have the aluminum wheels and side loaders are straight up M60A1s and from an earlier time period?



Chris, you probably need to be more specific about your build if you are looking for accuracy. The M60A1 Reliabilty Improved Selected Equipment (RISE) was introduced in 1975, with improvements mainly to the engine system, including the top load air cleaners. They also had searchlights. The M60A1(RISE/PASSIVE) tanks introduced the passive night vision and driving systems, but many of those tanks also retained the searchlights. There was no externally visible smoke discharger system on those tanks, which used the VEESS system-- (Vehicle Engine Exhaust Smoke System), which was basically an injection of diesel fuel into the exhaust. All these tanks had upgrades in their stabilization systems-AOS (Add-On Stabilization) which caused some changes in the electronics and sighting equipment inside the turret, introduced about 1975. In many cases, you could find a mix of tanks (M60A1(AOS), M60A1(RISE) or M60A1 (RISE-PASSIVE) in some units, up to the time they were replaced by the M60A3 beginning in 1980. I was an M60A1(RISE) platoon leader in 1976-77 at Knox and in the 11th ACR. In the 11th ACR, by 1980, we had a mixture of RISE and RISE/PASSIVE tanks. Since there were large stocks of aluminum road wheels left for issue, it wasn't uncommon to see both types on some tanks. But by 1980, the Army was transitioning to the M60A3, so most of the early M60A1s were found in the NG, FMS, or being rebuilt. In my platoon in the 11th ACR in 1977, I had a mixture of M60A1(AOS) and M60A1(RISE) tanks. By the way, the searchlight on the earlier M60A1 (AOS and RISE), had TWO capabilities-- white light and infrared. The driver of those tanks used an infrared viewer for night driving, and the gunner could target with an infrared sight. But the later passive sighting system was much better as it (passively) scavenged available light, without projecting a beam.
VR, Russ
27-1025
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2019 - 08:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

By that time, early '80s, the M60A1 RISE tanks had top-loading air cleaners, steel wheels, and smoke launchers/smoke grenade storage boxes. It would most likely be an M60A1 RISE/PASSIVE (introduced in '77) by that time. Passive tanks also included passive night vision sights for gunner and commander, kevilar spall liners for the turret, the VEESS smoke generation system, a new night vision device for the driver, a deep water fording kit and the capability to mount Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA).



Thanks. Making a list since Iím just getting started on this build. So most likely the pics that have the aluminum wheels and side loaders are straight up M60A1s and from an earlier time period?



Chris, you probably need to be more specific about your build if you are looking for accuracy. The M60A1 Reliabilty Improved Selected Equipment (RISE) was introduced in 1975, with improvements mainly to the engine system, including the top load air cleaners. They also had searchlights. The M60A1(RISE/PASSIVE) tanks introduced the passive night vision and driving systems, but many of those tanks also retained the searchlights. There was no externally visible smoke discharger system on those tanks, which used the VEESS system-- (Vehicle Engine Exhaust Smoke System), which was basically an injection of diesel fuel into the exhaust. All these tanks had upgrades in their stabilization systems-AOS (Add-On Stabilization) which caused some changes in the electronics and sighting equipment inside the turret, introduced about 1975. In many cases, you could find a mix of tanks (M60A1(AOS), M60A1(RISE) or M60A1 (RISE-PASSIVE) in some units, up to the time they were replaced by the M60A3 beginning in 1980. I was an M60A1(RISE) platoon leader in 1976-77 at Knox and in the 11th ACR. In the 11th ACR, by 1980, we had a mixture of RISE and RISE/PASSIVE tanks. Since there were large stocks of aluminum road wheels left for issue, it wasn't uncommon to see both types on some tanks. But by 1980, the Army was transitioning to the M60A3, so most of the early M60A1s were found in the NG, FMS, or being rebuilt. In my platoon in the 11th ACR in 1977, I had a mixture of M60A1(AOS) and M60A1(RISE) tanks. By the way, the searchlight on the earlier M60A1 (AOS and RISE), had TWO capabilities-- white light and infrared. The driver of those tanks used an infrared viewer for night driving, and the gunner could target with an infrared sight. But the later passive sighting system was much better as it (passively) scavenged available light, without projecting a beam.
VR, Russ



Thanks Russ. Thatís great info too. Iím just culling through some published Reforger pics trying to find something to build thatís accurate.
Charlie-66
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2019 - 11:46 AM UTC
I served on M60A1's in Heavy Company 2/3 ACR from 82-86. As many of the other posters have written, it was common to find a mixture of subtypes in the same unit. We even had a mixture of air cooled and oil cooled engines in the company when I first got there. To complicate things further we also had a mix of searchlight types; the ANVVS 2 and ANVVS 3. The 2 was larger while the 3 was smaller, more square looking, and had a circular lens in front. Or, if you don't want to mess with the searchlight issue, show the tank without one. In my experience that was not unusual either.
27-1025
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2019 - 01:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I served on M60A1's in Heavy Company 2/3 ACR from 82-86. As many of the other posters have written, it was common to find a mixture of subtypes in the same unit. We even had a mixture of air cooled and oil cooled engines in the company when I first got there. To complicate things further we also had a mix of searchlight types; the ANVVS 2 and ANVVS 3. The 2 was larger while the 3 was smaller, more square looking, and had a circular lens in front. Or, if you don't want to mess with the searchlight issue, show the tank without one. In my experience that was not unusual either.



Thanks much appreciated. I was looking at some reference pics and was very happy to see a bunch without the searchlights
TankSGT
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2019 - 06:47 PM UTC
My Squadron 1/11th ACR in Fulda received a full compliment of M60A1 RISE passive tanks in the summer of 1978. Every troop traded in their M551s for M60A1s over the course of a month. We had gunners, TCs and drivers passive sights. We retained the ANVVS 3 searchlights off of the M551s for our 60s all tanks had one. Passive was better then IR but the searchlight could help on an overcast night. IR headlights also helped the drivers passive vision periscope. All the tanks came with aluminum road wheels which I hated. The steel wear plates were forever coming off. We had armored top loading air cleaners and the grenade launcher mounts on the turrets. The actual launchers arrived several months later. They arrived in forest green and we painted the camouflage on a crew level. I painted my tank. These were factory new tanks mine had 50 miles on it. That is what I know we had at that time I put 2000 miles on her as the driver.

Tom
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2019 - 09:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

My Squadron 1/11th ACR in Fulda received a full compliment of M60A1 RISE passive tanks in the summer of 1978. Every troop traded in their M551s for M60A1s over the course of a month. We had gunners, TCs and drivers passive sights. We retained the ANVVS 3 searchlights off of the M551s for our 60s all tanks had one. Passive was better then IR but the searchlight could help on an overcast night. IR headlights also helped the drivers passive vision periscope. All the tanks came with aluminum road wheels which I hated. The steel wear plates were forever coming off. We had armored top loading air cleaners and the grenade launcher mounts on the turrets. The actual launchers arrived several months later. They arrived in forest green and we painted the camouflage on a crew level. I painted my tank. These were factory new tanks mine had 50 miles on it. That is what I know we had at that time I put 2000 miles on her as the driver.

Tom



Hi, ALL!

WOW!!! I was just reading through this thread, and it's really amazing- Makes me want to build a dozen different M60-series and derivatives, ALONE!!!

Tankrider
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2019 - 05:42 AM UTC
Chris,
Since the M60A1 Rise Passive tanks served in the Active Army from 1978 to roughly 1988, there are a great many permutations of the basic vehicle that you can model.

A couple of fixed point are clear: you will need the armored top loading air cleaners and T-142 track.

Options include:
- Roadwheels: either steel or aluminum or a mix
- Searchlight: either AN/VSS-1, AN/VSS-3, or no searchlight at all
- Smoke grenade launchers: either none, just the mounts or complete M239 SGLs mounted.

Camo will most likely MERDC four or modified three color, depending on the reference pictures. It would not surprise me if there were the odd couple of A1RPs with NATO three color schemes.

Keep in mind that there are always exceptions to the things above.

Good luck on your build. I am about 85% on a similar build where I am planning on a 5th Mech Division M60A1 RP with a AN/VSS-3 search light, smoke grenade launchers with the electrical conduits running externally from the top of the turret. The infantry rails and tow cable clips are holding me back right now as is a slightly dorked up bustle rack.

John
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2019 - 06:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

My Squadron 1/11th ACR in Fulda received a full compliment of M60A1 RISE passive tanks in the summer of 1978. Every troop traded in their M551s for M60A1s over the course of a month. We had gunners, TCs and drivers passive sights. We retained the ANVVS 3 searchlights off of the M551s for our 60s all tanks had one. Passive was better then IR but the searchlight could help on an overcast night. IR headlights also helped the drivers passive vision periscope. All the tanks came with aluminum road wheels which I hated. The steel wear plates were forever coming off. We had armored top loading air cleaners and the grenade launcher mounts on the turrets. The actual launchers arrived several months later. They arrived in forest green and we painted the camouflage on a crew level. I painted my tank. These were factory new tanks mine had 50 miles on it. That is what I know we had at that time I put 2000 miles on her as the driver.

Tom




Yah Tom, 1st Squadron always got the best stuff first!! Actually I was off to Sheridans in 1978 when the Rise Passives came in. But we did have a mixture of tanks. And for Chris-- I think you can see now why I said if you want a completely accurate M60, find some good references, preferably photos and a time frame. I saw tanks being replaced both individually, and by whole sub-units (usually at Company/Troop level) during my time as an Armor Officer. The only time I saw the entire Squadron replaced was when the M60A3 replaced everything in May 1980 (and even then it was incremental over a period of a couple months). So it's not unusual to see a mixture of M60s, depending on time period. Also, as equipment reaches its end-life (hopefully due to mileage) it's often replaced independent of other vehicles in a unit.
VR, Russ
TankSGT
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2019 - 07:24 PM UTC
Russ Delta company had their RISE passives before I got there end of October 77. The Cav troops all had M551s and they were worn out. The new heavy regiment replaced all M551s in the troop with M60A1s 4 per platoon. They had to all go at once. The tank company helped train the Sheridan crew who wanted to be tankers on the 60s. 19 Deltas, we had just switched to the 19 series, could opt to stay scouts. I have pictures of all the M551s lined up to be hauled away in the motor pool. Our tanks were wired for the smoke grenades the connection was right behind the mount.I drove A-11 which was the first tank of the Regiment. I PCSed to Fort Stewart which still had IR sights.
BLACKHORSE! Russ

Tom
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Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2019 - 02:49 AM UTC
Doing some work on the Takom turret. The smoke grenade launchers are modified and the covers are epoxy putty, same for the cover on the search light (not sure I'm going to mount it yet.





panamadan
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Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2019 - 03:08 AM UTC
One think that is fun about Ď80 era West German based tanks is all the gear that was stored all over the vehicle.
Dan
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Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2019 - 04:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Doing some work on the Takom turret. The smoke grenade launchers are modified and the covers are epoxy putty, same for the cover on the search light (not sure I'm going to mount it yet.








Chris the searchlight cover covered the entire light and was open on the bottom. The light was attached from below. Otherwise looking good. What did you use on the turret to fix the texture?

Tom
27-1025
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Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2019 - 05:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Doing some work on the Takom turret. The smoke grenade launchers are modified and the covers are epoxy putty, same for the cover on the search light (not sure I'm going to mount it yet.








Chris the searchlight cover covered the entire light and was open on the bottom. The light was attached from below. Otherwise looking good. What did you use on the turret to fix the texture?

Tom



The searchlight cover is on three sides only and open on the bottom. I sourced the parts from AFV Club and the attachment is super fragile. If I use it it will be the last thing attached. I think thereís an aftermarket resin set that has these parts too. I just used Tamiya Extra Thin and a stiff bristled brush to texture the turret join.
Sabot
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Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2019 - 06:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I served on ĎA3ís in the mid Ď80ís and we had a mix of steel and aluminum.
Dan


Ditto, my M60A3TTS in Germany (Dec 87 to July 89) had a mix of steel and aluminum road wheels. The only rule for road wheels were that both the inner and outer on the same road wheel arm had to be the same type.

This lead to some swapping of road wheels. Since new replacements were steel, if you broke an aluminum one, you'd either pull off both aluminum ones and replace both with steel. Then throw the used, but serviceable one on the turret for next time. Or you might give it to another tank if they had an aluminum one that needed replacing.
marcb
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2019 - 02:32 AM UTC
Love it,

I'm planning to build the Takom kit as one without ERA as well.
The AFV Club kit surface detail and parts count put me off.

I've asked Takom if they would release a regular A1 and A3.

Regards,

Marc
panamadan
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2019 - 03:00 AM UTC
Marc,
Did Takom respond?
Dan
marcb
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2019 - 03:46 AM UTC
Not yet, but they red the message yesterday.
panamadan
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2019 - 03:53 AM UTC
Iím sure that they will make others.
Dan
TankSGT
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2019 - 04:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Doing some work on the Takom turret. The smoke grenade launchers are modified and the covers are epoxy putty, same for the cover on the search light (not sure I'm going to mount it yet.








Chris the searchlight cover covered the entire light and was open on the bottom. The light was attached from below. Otherwise looking good. What did you use on the turret to fix the texture?

Tom



The searchlight cover is on three sides only and open on the bottom. I sourced the parts from AFV Club and the attachment is super fragile. If I use it it will be the last thing attached. I think thereís an aftermarket resin set that has these parts too. I just used Tamiya Extra Thin and a stiff bristled brush to texture the turret join.



I beg to differ the cover was on all sides with a slit for the cable. Look at the Tamiya Sheridan kit they give you the option of a covered searchlight. It is the same searchlight. A M551 build thread on this site has pictures. I will pull out my 10 manual to confirm. Also checking through pictures of my tanks to see if I caught the cover.

Tom
marcb
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2019 - 04:53 AM UTC
BTW, for the tow cable clips, this might be usefull. ET models makes a sheet with pe strips in various sizes.
https://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx?item_no=ET-T002

Removed by original poster on 03/07/19 - 17:40:03 (GMT).