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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
RFM Jagdpanther Ausf. G2 Build Log
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 11:51 PM UTC
In Step 21, I said that I reinforced the bond with liquid solvent. Here is what I used. It's similar to plastic weld.

d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 11:58 PM UTC
Before you can start on Step 22, you need to pre-assemble some parts of the lower frame. RFM uses PE for the entire sub-structure of the lower hull.

Instructions




Parts


Pay close attention to the orientation of the parts before doing any bending. If you have any of the parts backwards, it will create issues for you in future steps.

Completed Assembly


For A2 and A3, the parts from M sprue have a ridge molded into the bottom that will provide the correct alignment when gluing them to their PE part. Both M3 and M35 sit at an angle across the PE part. Pay attention to the instructions to get the angle correct.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 07:11 PM UTC
Time to begin Step 22. However, I'll be splitting this step into two parts. The first part will be the PE cross members. The second part is the swing arms.

Again, many have written about difficulty in fitting these parts as they were too wide for the hull. As with the torsion bars in the previous step, I didn't have any fit issues.

Instructions


The instructions also provide you a very good "birds-eye" view of the positioning of the PE sub-structure. This shows all the parts from Step 22 and Step 23. So you will want to keep this open for reference.


Here are the parts laid out, including the sub-assemblies from A1/2/3.


Again, make sure you pay attention to the orientation of the parts before doing any bending. You donít want to install them backwards.

All parts installed.


You need to pay close attention when installing these parts. As you can see in the black circles, you need to make sure the cross member is on the correct side of the PE bracket. This is why it was important to install these PE brackets correctly back in Step 19.


You can see the angle of M3 and M35 (red circles) in this picture. I also noticed that I didnít get the last cross member position correctly. (green circle). This was easy to fix and has been corrected.

More pics of the positions of the cross members.



Now I will deviate from the manual sequence, as I believe RFM got this wrong. The complete sub-structure should be completed before installing the swing arms. So, Iíll go ahead and finish Step 23, then come back to finish Step 22.


d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2019 - 12:14 AM UTC
As I mentioned in my last post, I'll be going to Step 23 first and then go back and complete Step 22. This is a more logical sequence then what the manual has you do.

Step 23 completes the sub-structure that you started installing in Step 22.

Instructions


Parts: Again primarily PE. As always, pay attention to orientation before bending and gluing. I noticed in the picture that I had part Z11 backwards. I do have it installed correctly.


Careful handling the four A34 parts. They are small. Glue them to Z18 and Z19 first. Then proceed with bending the tabs on these two PE parts.

Installed


Here is the installation sequence I used.
1. Install Z19 starting at the front and carefully fitting it over the cross members. I didn't have any real problems with the fit. Just take your time and do not force it into position. Once It was positioned, I applied CA glue to all of the joints and let that dry.

2. I then installed part Z15. The bottom tabs help you position in the lower hull. Glue into position and let dry.

3 Install Z12. Again the tabs help you locate the part correctly. Blue and let dry.

4. Install Z11. Same as above.

5. Lastly, install Z18. Again, take your time and carefully position. If you have everything above in their correct positions, then this part will easily slide into the slots.

Here are a couple of close-up pics of the installation.



Now, I'll go back and complete Step 22.
Braille
#135
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Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2019 - 07:46 AM UTC
@ d111298pw - Mark,

Very informative and illustrated with your close up pictures, nice. I have this one in the stash so I'm watching with interest. Thanks for taking this one on for the group it's much appreciated.

Keep at it, looks like a lot of fun!

~ Eddy
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2019 - 12:51 AM UTC
Thanks Eddy. This has been a fun build so far.

Time to go back and complete Step 22 by installing the swing arms.

Instructions


The Panther had three different styles of swing arms. So pay attention to the instructions for placement and don't get the parts mixed-up when you remove them from the sprue.

Parts


I have laid out the parts in the order they will be installed for each side. For part C51, you need to add C32 first. Pay attention to the orientation of C32.


As you can see in the instructions, the swing arms in red and be made moveable, if you want. You just need to remove the tab, circled in green, from the inside of the swing arm


The swing arms can only be installed one way, so long as you didn't remove the tab. The tab fits into the notch, circled in green.


I didn't have any problems fitting these parts. I inserted the arm into it's proper hole. Then I glued the inner part of the torsion bar first. (If you want movable suspension, then this is the only place you will glue). You will know if the arms are seated if they don't move.


Once the glue had dried, I then went back to glue where the swing arm inserts into the hull. I'm not making mine moveable.

First, I used these parts from a previous Tamiya Tiger I kit to make sure all the arms were in the same position. You can use anything that is straight.


Since these aren't long enough for all eight arms, I only started with the first seven. I clamped the guides in place.



I then applied the solvent glue to "weld" the arms in position. Once they had dried, I removed the clamps and rest to include the last arm.


I repeated the process for the other side.

The end result is that all the swing arms are perfectly level with each other.

Braille
#135
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Posted: Sunday, July 07, 2019 - 02:44 PM UTC
@d111298pw Ė Mark,

Thanks for pointing out all of the issues and assembly steps that helps with putting this kit together for those of us that have not had a chance to, or have this one in the stash waiting its turn on the bench. It is very much appreciated by me and Iím sure by those following your build here.

I do have a question concerning the use of the gyrocompass? Was this item used on only the turreted Panther and Tiger and Tiger II vehicles? The Rye Field Models 1:35th Panther Ausf. G kit has you place one of these items under the crew compartment hull roof ventilator. Iíve scoured through the Jadgpanthers assembly instructions and did not see one placed anywhere on the interior on this vehicle? The item in question is part K55 along with its associated parts as seen on page 17 (upper right hand corner) of the Panther G instructions. This part is in the kit box along with all of the other parts with the exception of one of the parts (L5)? The L sprue layout of parts is different on this kit verses the Panther G kit, so the part could be there but I canít make out what the part looks like to compart it to the Jadgpanthers L parts sprue? Was this above mentioned gyrocompass used on the Jadgpanther? And if so where would it have been installed?

Apologies for being so fussy here but if youíre going to offer a complete interior kit one would think to include this item if in fact it was also installed in the Jadgpanther?

~ Eddy
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#406
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Posted: Sunday, July 07, 2019 - 06:57 PM UTC
Nice work Mark you will need to consider sending us a build feature when you are done.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Sunday, July 07, 2019 - 08:41 PM UTC
Eddy,
I'm not aware of the Panther Ausf. G being issued with the gyrocompass. Maybe someone else has better information. I'll check my references and see if they say anything about it. My Jagdpanther references make no mention of this ever being incorporated. Maybe that is why it isn't included in the kit. Again, maybe someone else has better information.

The L-sprues are specific to each kit. I have the clear hull Ausf. G kit (RM5016) and all the clear parts are on the L-sprue.

When I get around to building this kit, I will be leaving that assembly off, unless I find a picture of a fielded tank with it installed.

Darren,
Once I get this beast completed, I'll look at putting together a build summary to go with the review I wrote.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2019 - 03:16 AM UTC
Eddy,
I had a look through my reference books and find no mention of the gyrocompass being installed in the Panther. It's possible I missed something, or I just don't have a book that talks about it.
Braille
#135
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2019 - 11:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Eddy,
I had a look through my reference books and find no mention of the gyrocompass being installed in the Panther. It's possible I missed something, or I just don't have a book that talks about it.



@d111298pw Ė Mark,

On the Panther kit you mention, RM-5016 the items in question are grouped together on the upper right hand corner of page 17 of the upper hull parts assembly instructions. One of the parts (L5) is on the L sprue and the gyroscope (K55) is on the K sprue. There is also a decal to be placed on the gyroscope (20). The L5 part may be a light or gage?

The gyroscope had never been as issue or even mentioned until Dave Parker made mention of it in his book SuperKing. Iím sure that this gyroscope has been mentioned over on the ML website but canít be sure as there was much posting on the 1/16 scale Trumpeter King Tiger. However the parts do exist on the RFM Panther and Jagdpanther kits but I donít know if this was installed, or where if used, on the Jagdpanther vehicles? I do believe this needs further exploration.

I have a lot of reference material on the Panther and Jagdpanther, but I have not found anything mentioning the gyroscope for either vehicle?

~ Eddy
Braille
#135
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2019 - 02:54 PM UTC
@d111298pw Ė Mark,

I have found what I was looking for concerning the gyrocompass. This item was used on the Panther. The Research Squadís Panther project, Fgst.Nr. 158134 has it installed exactly where the RFM instructions mention. That vehicle is an Ausf. A Panther complete with Zimmerit coating. If ever there was a definitive book(s) covering the interior as well as the exterior in color and accurate of the Panther I donít know of any other than these books. There are two volumes covering the complete restoration of Fgst.Nr. 158134 and all of the pages are covered in beautiful color photographs with excellent discriptions. The second volume covers the turret and completion of the hull, the gyroscope is mentioned and photographed in detail in this volume and mentions what its purpose was used for. The clear item part L5 is a lamp for the driver.

The directional gyrocompass ĎKurskreiselí is a very important part used for locking the vehicle to a present bearing that would be kept on station by the use of an internal electrically powered gyroscope; this is according the books description of this part. Would it have been installed on the Jadgpanther? My search goes on but I believe it would have been.

Here is a link that you may want to take a look at before leaving out this item on your build. Gyrocompass Scroll down the page to find the Kurskreisel and click on the link there. Good information on these pages. Jacques Littlefield Collection is the Research Squad if you already didnít know.

~ Eddy
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2019 - 05:54 PM UTC
Eddy, that is fascinating information. I've got those two books on my wish list. Very interesting that it was installed on an Ausf. A. Of course, that begs the question; were these installed on every tank? Or just for a specific time period?

I Still can't find anything in my reference material on when these were first installed. Going through my pics, that show that area, none of them show this installed.

Also, your question regarding the Jagdpanther is also valid. Was it installed or not? I would be interested to know what reference material RFM used when designing these kits. They include it on the Panther Ausf. G and not the Ausf. G2. There must be a reason.

The gyrocompass installed in the Ausf. A (from the Eddy's link)


Decal #20 from the RFM Panther Ausf. G kit (RM-5016)


I would say it is a match.

I also had a look at the instructions for my Takom Panther Ausf. A Mid-Late kit (2100). Step 42, parts Q20 nd Q22 might be the gyrocompass.

d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2019 - 06:02 PM UTC
The gyrocompass discussion deserves it's own thread. As there is still a lot to explore on that topic.

Before moving on with the interior assembly, I painted the lower hull. Since the firewall and rear panel were used back in Step 20, for squaring the sides, I painted them as well and did a dry fit.






GazzaS
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2019 - 09:57 PM UTC
That's a really great solution for the Suspension, Mark!

Gaz
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2019 - 01:06 AM UTC
Really great job. I ran into the torsion bar issue with their Panther. This, and the metal frames for the suspension made me feel like the model is fighting me...

My frames did not come out as straight as yours. Which is a shame.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2019 - 04:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That's a really great solution for the Suspension, Mark!

Gaz



I tried the jigs from my Takom Panther kit, but the RFM suspension arms are larger in diameter. So, I had to look for another option.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2019 - 04:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Really great job. I ran into the torsion bar issue with their Panther. This, and the metal frames for the suspension made me feel like the model is fighting me...

My frames did not come out as straight as yours. Which is a shame.



I was very worried over installing these parts after reading about issues getting torsion bars and the PE frames to fit. I was fully expecting all kinds of problems. I spent a lot of time looking at various installation options and ended up going with the way I show above. It may, or, may not work for everyone.
Braille
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2019 - 05:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Eddy, that is fascinating information. I've got those two books on my wish list. Very interesting that it was installed on an Ausf. A. Of course, that begs the question; were these installed on every tank? Or just for a specific time period?



@d111298pw - Mark,

My understanding thru research thus far is that the directional gyrocompass were installed on Panzer tanks, Panzer II's thru to the last heavy tanks. There are interior pictures that show a metal fixture near the driver with a hole for mounting such a device on these vehicles but I think that because as modelers we did not have most if any of these panzer kits made with full interiors no one ever bothered to find out about this item until recently.

What I have come up with is that the Stug's and tank destroyers were not equipt this way. There is evidence that the directional gyrocompasses were installed on Stug's during the Kursk Campaign but this is more of an exception than the rule for tank destroyers as they are usually a field controlled asset. That said I will not be installing this part on my Jagdpanther.

~ Eddy
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2019 - 05:48 PM UTC
Eddy,
I think you found the answer. This is the first kit I've built with an interior, so it is a subject that never came up in the past. It also makes sense that they are installed in tanks, and not Stug's, Jagd's, and other tracked artillery.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Friday, July 12, 2019 - 04:29 AM UTC
Before moving on to Step 24, we have some sub-assemblies to put together.

Instructions


Parts


Assembled and painted



No real issues when assembling these. It was all very straight forward. Just remember not to glue E46 to E30.

If I was doing this again, I would not install part R10 in step A5. I would install R10 after the A5 assembly was fitted in the hull during Step 24.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Friday, July 12, 2019 - 05:08 AM UTC
Time to move onto Step 24. There is much here and you need to take your time so you don't break anything.

Instructions


Parts


Positioning of Y50 inside D24


Positioning of Y56 on E45. It is not clear in the instructions, but the left and right sides are different. Y56 is glued to the bottom position of E45 for each side.


Bending of Z2 and Z2b


Painted and ready for installation


Will continue this step in next post.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Friday, July 12, 2019 - 05:29 AM UTC
Let's start installing the parts for Step 24.

I decided to start from the rear and work forward. No particular reason. You can just as easily start at the front and work your way back.

When installing A5, the legs fit into the green circles and the slit fits over the PE cross member. Take your time fitting this. If you rush, or force, it, you will pop loose the PE frame members.


Here is A5 installed. I circled where the PE cross member fits through the plate.


Next is the batteries. They sit in the notches, circled in yellow, on the PE cross members.


Before installing, make sure you have the correct orientation. The wider section (4mm) faces forward.


Shown installed.


d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Friday, July 12, 2019 - 05:40 AM UTC
Continuing with Step 24.

Positioning of more parts. Again, be careful when fitting R31 and M47.



Here you can see that E45 and Z2b (right side) doesn't fit as cleanly (red circle) as they do on the left side




Showing Y56 fitted to the lower half of E45 on right side.


Everything installed.



d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Friday, July 12, 2019 - 06:59 PM UTC
Step 25 is a busy one.

Instructions


Parts


The hole in N25 needs to be drilled deeper so that it fits on M40 correctly. I used a .6mm drill bit.


Dry fitting showing the PE bends



Assembled transfer gearbox




Dry fit on M34


Dry fit of the assembly (I have the hook assy sitting on M34 backwards. I'll fix that when I glue it in Step 26)





Painted


Don't glue these parts together just yet. Do this in Step 26.