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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Bergepanzer Derrick Crane
fenwood
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 69 posts
Armorama: 44 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 03:30 PM UTC
Hi,all. A quick question...on the early Bergepanzer where were the block and tackle chains and supporting legs of the derrick crane stored when not in use?
d111298pw
#456
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Delhi, India / भारत
Joined: September 22, 2016
KitMaker: 646 posts
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 06:03 PM UTC
Based on the information in Panzer Tracts 16-1 (page 16-1-5), the 2-ton jib crane didn't start shipping with the Bergepanther's until the end of 1943/early 1944.

External brackets were provided for storing the crane parts. I would expect that the block & tackle, as well as the chains, would have been kept in one of the internal storage boxes.



fenwood
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 69 posts
Armorama: 44 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 08:30 PM UTC
Mark, thank you for your prompt reply. Whereabouts specifically would the legs be held?
Thanks for your reply.
Tony
d111298pw
#456
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Delhi, India / भारत
Joined: September 22, 2016
KitMaker: 646 posts
Armorama: 630 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 10:00 PM UTC
The legs were stored on brackets on the side of the superstructure. Here is pic from Panzer Tracts, pg 16-1-56, showing the legs stored.

165thspc
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Friday, May 24, 2019 - 12:45 AM UTC
Excellent answer to a question many of us have had in the past. I positioned my crane as deployed so I avoided the issue.

How: similar question as to stowing the "V" shaped towing fixture. Did Italeri have it correct that it was stowed on brackets above the engine deck? I know it could be broken down into two pieces - I have used the modern US Army equivalent a number of times - in real life.
d111298pw
#456
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Delhi, India / भारत
Joined: September 22, 2016
KitMaker: 646 posts
Armorama: 630 posts
Posted: Friday, May 24, 2019 - 05:27 AM UTC
The tow bars were stored on the rear engine deck. These two pics from Panzer Tracts 16-1 show the configuration.


165thspc
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Posted: Friday, May 24, 2019 - 10:22 AM UTC
Thank you - so Italeri was right all along.
165thspc
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Friday, May 24, 2019 - 10:47 AM UTC
This is the old Italeri Bergepanther built many years ago.

The tired recovery crew took the lazy man's way out and just tossed the tow bar up on the engine deck. (That sucker is heavy! It ain't going nowhere.)







This model took two Italeri Berge kits to properly accurize the winch, individual link tracks and an after market detail set plus a Tiger Hobbies ratchet chain hoist and a number of small scratch built parts. The stiff leg crane now can be rotated which it could not on the original Italeri kit.

(I have since added a Tiger Models chain hoist to the jib boom.)

Back in the day this was the only way to get a fairly accurate Berge.
fenwood
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 69 posts
Armorama: 44 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 25, 2019 - 11:53 AM UTC
Thank you all for your prompt replies. I am enquiring now about where the derrick would have been stowed on the Bergepanther AusF G. early model. The A frame is situated on the engine cover. Yes? Where would the legs to the derrick, once broken down be positioned?
I get confused about all the various AusF A,D,G, etc. I am mainly a figure modeller.
Be gentle with me.
Tony
d111298pw
#456
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Delhi, India / भारत
Joined: September 22, 2016
KitMaker: 646 posts
Armorama: 630 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 25, 2019 - 03:41 PM UTC
Tony,
I'll break down the versions, as best as I understand them

Original Ausf. D (30 built July-September 1943
None of these were delivered with the jib-crane. So there are no external brackets.

Early Ausf. A (September-November 1943)
Again, the initial versions did not ship with the jib-crane.

No vehicles were produced in December 1943 or January 1944.

Late Ausf. A (February-October 1944)
The brackets for the jib-crane were attached to the right side of the "superstructure" as in the picture in my earlier post.

All versions of the Ausf. G (October 1944-April 1945)
The brackets for the jib-crane were attached to the right side of the "superstructure" as in the picture in my earlier post.

The Seibert converted Ausf. D (July 1944-March 1945)
The brackets for the jib-crane were attached to the right side of the upper hull, as these did not have the superstructure installed.

I would expect that for those vehicles without the jib-crane, it may have been added in the field by the rear area maintenance workshops. For the Ausf. D's, the brackets would have been attached to the upper hull on the side opposite the unditching beam. For the early Ausf. A's with the unditching beam on the right side, the brackets were on the left side of the superstructure. All 1944 to 1945 vehicles have the unditching beam on the left side and the brackets on the right side.

Here is a pic of the Seibert converted Ausf. D. showing storage on any version of the Ausf. D.
165thspc
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Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2019 - 02:07 AM UTC
!GREAT! reference there!
fenwood
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 23, 2005
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Armorama: 44 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2019 - 10:08 AM UTC
Mark, thank you for the prompt reply. Mike also appreciates it,ha,ha.
The field maintenance bods were/are very adept at configuring... should that be re-configuring...whatever it is you require.
So it makes sense that they would have modified brackets for the legs of the crane.
Thanks again.
Tony
afvaficionado
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New Zealand
Joined: February 16, 2010
KitMaker: 150 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2019 - 10:17 AM UTC
This might be of interest - Bergepanther A - http://www.armortek.co.uk/Forum3b/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6691&sid=41d41c13b59040b9e47f77b908116807 -

Mal
d111298pw
#456
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Delhi, India / भारत
Joined: September 22, 2016
KitMaker: 646 posts
Armorama: 630 posts
Posted: Monday, May 27, 2019 - 04:25 PM UTC
Malcolm, Thanks for that link. I would love to build one of those Armortek kits someday.

I also noticed that on the late Ausf. G's, in addition to the right side storage, some of the jib crane legs were stored on the rear of the superstructure (in red).