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Campaigns
Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
How about a Sheperd Paine campaign?
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 969 posts
Armorama: 956 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 10:39 AM UTC
So no aftermarket items, but can we use styrene sheet, rod, etc?Evergreen plastic was founded in 1977.
Can you combine parts from old kits? Fe Italeri Sherman with Tamiya tracks.

Interesting Wikipedia page on Shep Pain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheperd_Paine

I remember the First aid post in the old Tamiya catalogue. I always thought his work was much more dynamic than Verlinden's work.



M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,260 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 01:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi guys,
just an idea; how about a Sheperd Paine commemorative campaign?
August 1st is the day he died 4 years ago and to me the man was THE inspirational figure that got and kept me going in this hobby.
It would start of course on august 1st, which may be a bit of a short notice and maybe run for 6 months? Longer?

In order to honour him tules would be; kits older than 25 years, no aftermarket, PE, resin, turned barrels etc allowed.
Just the kit, your imagination and whatever you can scrounge "around the house" in order to upgrade the kit.
Old school, basic and creative.

What do you folks say? Is it something?




Question as an interested party only, and NOT as an entrant:

Does the criteria for this campaign include only model kits which the late, Great Shep Paine featured in his MONOGRAM mini-monographs, OR, are models which are built, detailed and painted according to "his methods" allowed and even said models which have been released AFTER Shep's untimely death..? I ask because I feel, and others may feel as I do in this case, that ANY model that is built using Shep's great and enlightening techniques and methods would be a fine tribute to his memory...

The reason I personally don't wish to enter this campaign, even though I've been a proponent of Shep's techniques since the early 1970s, is because what with my being in poor health, I never know what may befall me prior to the "end-date" of ANY modeling campaign, whether it's on this site, or elsewhere. I could wind up in hospital and/or "rehabs" at any time. In other words, I don't feel that I should "promise and not deliver". Hoping you guys understand...

Thanks,

-Dennis

PS- Wait a second! I just read through some of the latest criteria- If memory serves, Shep Paine was NOT averse to using resin or PE after-market stuff, as limited as this stuff was in number and in content "back in the day", even though he was a great proponent of "imagineering" and "gizmology". I KNOW he would have jumped at the chance to use all of the after-market "goodies" that we have at our disposal, today. He was definitely a guy that was of the philosophy of "using whatever was available, when it was, OR BECAME available"... Take that for what it's worth...
petbat
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2005
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,109 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 02:15 PM UTC
Marc, making your own parts or detailing using styrene stock, wire, tape, etc, was a big part of what Sheperd did.

At risk of Hijacking a thread I didn't start, I think the intent is to build a kit based on techniques in Shep's books "Modelling Tanks and Military Vehicles", "Building and Painting Scale Figures" and "How to build Dioramas" and which denote the golden age of his career. In these Sheperd has chapters on scratch building and super detailing, so I expect you will get no resistance there.

In t'Tanks', Shep discussed using resin parts that were self-cast as copies of other kit parts or parts made/detailed by the modeller themselves, but did not venture into the purchase of commercially available add on parts.

'Dioramas' was all about the scenic display and whist iterating parts of his casting article from the tanks book re making your own accessories, his commentary expanded to commercially available products however, this was centred around diorama accessories rather than improvements to the central model.

I do not have a copy of 'Figures'.

As to the type of model, any kit made from a mould that is older than 25 years can be built as long and any post 25 years re-issue kit is made up using only the parts that were in the same kit 25 years ago. Example is the Tamiya SdKfz 222 re-issue with etch and metal barrel can only be built without the metal parts, etc.

Happy to be told I'm off course here though....
KoSprueOne
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Myanmar
Joined: March 05, 2004
KitMaker: 3,779 posts
Armorama: 1,393 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 02:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Callsign: HARV
That is a cool idea for a campaign. I would be all for entering this one. I grew up seeing his work on the sides of the Monogram boxes and in the diorama tip sheets that came with the kits and was always in awe. He has always been a motivator for me with this hobby.

If this campaign is a go I would like to do a straight from the box build of the re-issued Monogram 1/32 "Screamin' Mimi".




Thanks,
Randy



I'm in and I might have to buy this kit again just to build it again.




yeahwiggie
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Dalarnas, Sweden
Joined: March 24, 2006
KitMaker: 1,936 posts
Armorama: 1,203 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 03:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

So no aftermarket items, but can we use styrene sheet, rod, etc?Evergreen plastic was founded in 1977.
Can you combine parts from old kits? Fe Italeri Sherman with Tamiya tracks.

Interesting Wikipedia page on Shep Pain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheperd_Paine

I remember the First aid post in the old Tamiya catalogue. I always thought his work was much more dynamic than Verlinden's work.






Yup, as long as the parts are from kits 25 years or older.


Quoted Text



Question as an interested party only, and NOT as an entrant:

Does the criteria for this campaign include only model kits which the late, Great Shep Paine featured in his MONOGRAM mini-monographs, OR, are models which are built, detailed and painted according to "his methods" allowed and even said models which have been released AFTER Shep's untimely death..? I ask because I feel, and others may feel as I do in this case, that ANY model that is built using Shep's great and enlightening techniques and methods would be a fine tribute to his memory...

The reason I personally don't wish to enter this campaign, even though I've been a proponent of Shep's techniques since the early 1970s, is because what with my being in poor health, I never know what may befall me prior to the "end-date" of ANY modeling campaign, whether it's on this site, or elsewhere. I could wind up in hospital and/or "rehabs" at any time. In other words, I don't feel that I should "promise and not deliver". Hoping you guys understand...

Thanks,

-Dennis



Hi Dennis, the idea is to use one's imagination and creativity, not throw a lot of cash, resin and PE at a kit. Do things the "good, old way".
Besides you're more than welcome to join, if only to enjoy yourself and maybe learn/show a thing or 2. I dare say finishing a campaign for many is not always a given.
yeahwiggie
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Dalarnas, Sweden
Joined: March 24, 2006
KitMaker: 1,936 posts
Armorama: 1,203 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 03:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Marc, making your own parts or detailing using styrene stock, wire, tape, etc, was a big part of what Sheperd did.

At risk of Hijacking a thread I didn't start, I think the intent is to build a kit based on techniques in Shep's books "Modelling Tanks and Military Vehicles", "Building and Painting Scale Figures" and "How to build Dioramas" and which denote the golden age of his career. In these Sheperd has chapters on scratch building and super detailing, so I expect you will get no resistance there.

In t'Tanks', Shep discussed using resin parts that were self-cast as copies of other kit parts or parts made/detailed by the modeller themselves, but did not venture into the purchase of commercially available add on parts.

'Dioramas' was all about the scenic display and whist iterating parts of his casting article from the tanks book re making your own accessories, his commentary expanded to commercially available products however, this was centred around diorama accessories rather than improvements to the central model.

I do not have a copy of 'Figures'.

As to the type of model, any kit made from a mould that is older than 25 years can be built as long and any post 25 years re-issue kit is made up using only the parts that were in the same kit 25 years ago. Example is the Tamiya SdKfz 222 re-issue with etch and metal barrel can only be built without the metal parts, etc.

Happy to be told I'm off course here though....



Pretty much nailed it!
yeahwiggie
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Dalarnas, Sweden
Joined: March 24, 2006
KitMaker: 1,936 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 03:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text


The banner size has to be 648 pixels by 60 pixels to present properly. Using your base design it should look like this:


Hope this helps you. Cheers




Thanks again.
I like the banner, so I suggest we run with it!

I have been fiddling around with the ribbon. Wasn't quite happy with it. Looked to.... communistic in a way. Plus I had a bit of difficulties getting the final version to be under 1.5kb. I ditched all the colour and came up with something new. The initials stand for Sheperd Paine Tribute. The ble diamond represents him, the black relates to the loss, the green for the military branch of his work and the red to tie it all in and that colour is also dominantly present in military clothing and meaning.



And as it will appear when used;
Charlie-66
#186
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Texas, United States
Joined: May 24, 2006
KitMaker: 730 posts
Armorama: 711 posts
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 05:38 AM UTC
I'd join in
Lakota
#123
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New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 1,008 posts
Armorama: 563 posts
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 07:48 AM UTC
Howdy Y'all
Shep Paine did not get me into the hobby but he helped keep me in the hobby. I'm in! Probably going to do Tamiya's old Panzer II or a braille scale Hasegawa kit.
I have a Monogram Sherman and a Verlinden crew for it but I don't know the date of the Verlinden crew.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"
petbat
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2005
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 08:12 AM UTC
I like the new ribbon a lot better, especially with the meaning you have put behind it
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,260 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 10:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

So no aftermarket items, but can we use styrene sheet, rod, etc?Evergreen plastic was founded in 1977.
Can you combine parts from old kits? Fe Italeri Sherman with Tamiya tracks.

Interesting Wikipedia page on Shep Pain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheperd_Paine

I remember the First aid post in the old Tamiya catalogue. I always thought his work was much more dynamic than Verlinden's work.






Yup, as long as the parts are from kits 25 years or older.


Quoted Text



Question as an interested party only, and NOT as an entrant:

Does the criteria for this campaign include only model kits which the late, Great Shep Paine featured in his MONOGRAM mini-monographs, OR, are models which are built, detailed and painted according to "his methods" allowed and even said models which have been released AFTER Shep's untimely death..? I ask because I feel, and others may feel as I do in this case, that ANY model that is built using Shep's great and enlightening techniques and methods would be a fine tribute to his memory...

The reason I personally don't wish to enter this campaign, even though I've been a proponent of Shep's techniques since the early 1970s, is because what with my being in poor health, I never know what may befall me prior to the "end-date" of ANY modeling campaign, whether it's on this site, or elsewhere. I could wind up in hospital and/or "rehabs" at any time. In other words, I don't feel that I should "promise and not deliver". Hoping you guys understand...

Thanks,

-Dennis



Hi Dennis, the idea is to use one's imagination and creativity, not throw a lot of cash, resin and PE at a kit. Do things the "good, old way".
Besides you're more than welcome to join, if only to enjoy yourself and maybe learn/show a thing or 2. I dare say finishing a campaign for many is not always a given.



You're reading me all wrong; I've been building models since 1958, and that was when I was 5 years old. I haven't built anything "straight-out-of-the-box" since I was 8. I'm of the mind-set that the EVEN THE VERY LATEST 2019 model kit can be "improved" in some way however small, and not necessarily by buying expensive PE, resin, or "mixed-media" up-dates, back-dates, in-between-dates, or "No-Show-dates".

I was asking the question rhetorically, for the benefit of OTHER modelers who MAY have wondered, since I don't plan on entering anything anyway...

I still have ONE ORIGINAL 1/48 MONOGRAM B-17G, sealed in the box, with one of Shep Paine's "How To" B-17G diorama monographs enclosed in the box. At the time of this kit's release, I BOUGHT THREE of them, two of which I custom-built and sold to customers of mine. I kept one of these ORIGINALS for myself. Subsequently, I bought a few more of them. In the meantime, I'd bought a number of the later-release 1/48 MONOGRAM B-17G kits through the years, both for myself in order to build them up and to keep in my display cabinets, and a few of them here and there for "custom-builds" for my "special" customers. I quit "building for hire" in the early '90s...

And now, I'm going to "pitch-a-b**ch":

Back in the day, Shep Paine also used PAINTS, PUTTIES, certain "specialized" HAND-TOOLS and ADHESIVES that aren't even available anymore- And if SOME of the glues and paints are still available SOMEWHERE, they're probably UNUSABLE because of their age...

So, that leaves all of that modern-day "boutique S**T" that modelers rave about today. For example: I distinctly remember Shep Paine using a PAASCHE H-1 SINGLE-ACTION Airbrush for a lot of his paint-work in the 1970s. Now go ahead and tell your "campaign-entrants" that they can't use their "ultra-high-dollar" Quadruple-Action IWATAS and the like, PLUS their Whoopdie-doo fancy acrylic paints, such as VALLEJO, AK INTERACTIVE, MISSION MODELS, etc. THIS STUFF is 21st Century technology. If you go ahead and bar the use of this stuff, you'll have a REVOLUTION on your hands...

Are we to surmise that only 1970s-vintage paints, adhesives, sandpapers, and "you-name-its" are allowed to be used in order to complete a 1970s kit??? You're going for the "purist"-methods, so the "NEW" ancillary stuff, by rights, should not be allowed. If that's the case, it's going to be a very tall order to actually complete anything that's over 25-years old with "over 25-years-old technology"...

I myself, still use my THREE 1970s-vintage PAASCHE H-1 Single-Action Airbrushes and my TWO 1980s-vintage BADGER Single-Action Airbrushes, which are a Model 200 with the lower Siphon-Feed, and my "precision" Model 200G Gravity-Feed with a "Micro Paint Tip" for small detail-work. I'm still pretty handy with my basic, old-fashioned Mk.I "manual" Red Sable brushes, too...

No, seriously, I've sold custom-built/custom-painted single 54mm Figurines for upwards of $300.00 EACH, "back in the day"...

(BTW- In case anyone was wondering, "Why FIVE different Airbrushes?" Well, each one of them is meant to be used for "specific" and "different" tasks. I never have ANY cross-contamination, EVER... For example: One airbrush is for strictly "metallic lacquers", the next for strictly "light-colored" enamels, the next for "dark-colored" enamels, the next for heavy applications with "oddball-additives", and the last is strictly for "fine-detail" or small "repair-work") Maybe I'm off my rocker, but this "system" works for ME... Yes, I'm a "fuss-pot"...

PS- My ORIGINAL, SEALED 1/48 MONOGRAM B-17G is NOT for sale! You guys are very welcome to ask me which other "originals" I have in my collection, but THEY'RE NOT FOR SALE, EITHER!!!

PPS- I want to try AK INTERACTIVE's XTREME Metallic Enamels on one of my unbuilt TAMIYA 1/48 P-47D Thunderbolt "Bubble Top" kits. I've read in several other sites, such as AEROSCALE, BRIT MODELER, and THE MODELLING NEWS that a lot of guys really like these new "Metal Finishes". Have any of you guys had any experience with these paints?
duckdawgs
#302
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California, United States
Joined: August 01, 2010
KitMaker: 126 posts
Armorama: 63 posts
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 11:54 AM UTC
Totally agree with Dennis... Some of the tips I took from his books was to use everything and anything, how to apply "gizmology", lighting etc. My current diorama project is using all the tips that I learned from his books...
Lakota
#123
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New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 1,008 posts
Armorama: 563 posts
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 12:59 PM UTC
Harv-I had that kit in my stash, picked it up at HobbyLobby for $7.50 and did not build it. I gave it to my kids for the 4-H Christmas gift exchange. They told me it was the most popular gift, getting exchanged several times. I didn't even know kids still built models or I would've thrown in a tube of glue.
Looking forward to your build. Maybe I'll build my Sherman for this campaign.

Dennis-I'll take the bait. What other original Monogram kits do you have?

Take care,
Don "Lakota"
yeahwiggie
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Dalarnas, Sweden
Joined: March 24, 2006
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Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 07:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text



You're reading me all wrong; I've been building models since 1958, and that was when I was 5 years old. I haven't built anything "straight-out-of-the-box" since I was 8. I'm of the mind-set that the EVEN THE VERY LATEST 2019 model kit can be "improved" in some way however small, and not necessarily by buying expensive PE, resin, or "mixed-media" up-dates, back-dates, in-between-dates, or "No-Show-dates".

I was asking the question rhetorically, for the benefit of OTHER modelers who MAY have wondered, since I don't plan on entering anything anyway...

I still have ONE ORIGINAL 1/48 MONOGRAM B-17G, sealed in the box, with one of Shep Paine's "How To" B-17G diorama monographs enclosed in the box. At the time of this kit's release, I BOUGHT THREE of them, two of which I custom-built and sold to customers of mine. I kept one of these ORIGINALS for myself. Subsequently, I bought a few more of them. In the meantime, I'd bought a number of the later-release 1/48 MONOGRAM B-17G kits through the years, both for myself in order to build them up and to keep in my display cabinets, and a few of them here and there for "custom-builds" for my "special" customers. I quit "building for hire" in the early '90s...

And now, I'm going to "pitch-a-b**ch":

Back in the day, Shep Paine also used PAINTS, PUTTIES, certain "specialized" HAND-TOOLS and ADHESIVES that aren't even available anymore- And if SOME of the glues and paints are still available SOMEWHERE, they're probably UNUSABLE because of their age...

So, that leaves all of that modern-day "boutique S**T" that modelers rave about today. For example: I distinctly remember Shep Paine using a PAASCHE H-1 SINGLE-ACTION Airbrush for a lot of his paint-work in the 1970s. Now go ahead and tell your "campaign-entrants" that they can't use their "ultra-high-dollar" Quadruple-Action IWATAS and the like, PLUS their Whoopdie-doo fancy acrylic paints, such as VALLEJO, AK INTERACTIVE, MISSION MODELS, etc. THIS STUFF is 21st Century technology. If you go ahead and bar the use of this stuff, you'll have a REVOLUTION on your hands...

Are we to surmise that only 1970s-vintage paints, adhesives, sandpapers, and "you-name-its" are allowed to be used in order to complete a 1970s kit??? You're going for the "purist"-methods, so the "NEW" ancillary stuff, by rights, should not be allowed. If that's the case, it's going to be a very tall order to actually complete anything that's over 25-years old with "over 25-years-old technology"...

etc.
etc..
etc...



Honestly Dennis, you need to take a chill-pill!
What's the matter with you? You have an argumentative streak or what?
I do not care what mr. Paine would have used or that you feel we should use or not use this or that "by right" or what credentials you think you have.

I proposed a campaign to honor the man, commemorate his untimely passing and to encourage others to use some of the techniques that earned him his name and fame in that campaign. Nothing purist, just basic fun with a decent dose of nostaligia.

If you have something constructive to say I am all ears, however if you do not or not like the campaign... I am sure you can find your way out?
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,260 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 09:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



You're reading me all wrong; I've been building models since 1958, and that was when I was 5 years old. I haven't built anything "straight-out-of-the-box" since I was 8. I'm of the mind-set that the EVEN THE VERY LATEST 2019 model kit can be "improved" in some way however small, and not necessarily by buying expensive PE, resin, or "mixed-media" up-dates, back-dates, in-between-dates, or "No-Show-dates".

I was asking the question rhetorically, for the benefit of OTHER modelers who MAY have wondered, since I don't plan on entering anything anyway...

I still have ONE ORIGINAL 1/48 MONOGRAM B-17G, sealed in the box, with one of Shep Paine's "How To" B-17G diorama monographs enclosed in the box. At the time of this kit's release, I BOUGHT THREE of them, two of which I custom-built and sold to customers of mine. I kept one of these ORIGINALS for myself. Subsequently, I bought a few more of them. In the meantime, I'd bought a number of the later-release 1/48 MONOGRAM B-17G kits through the years, both for myself in order to build them up and to keep in my display cabinets, and a few of them here and there for "custom-builds" for my "special" customers. I quit "building for hire" in the early '90s...

And now, I'm going to "pitch-a-b**ch":

Back in the day, Shep Paine also used PAINTS, PUTTIES, certain "specialized" HAND-TOOLS and ADHESIVES that aren't even available anymore- And if SOME of the glues and paints are still available SOMEWHERE, they're probably UNUSABLE because of their age...

So, that leaves all of that modern-day "boutique S**T" that modelers rave about today. For example: I distinctly remember Shep Paine using a PAASCHE H-1 SINGLE-ACTION Airbrush for a lot of his paint-work in the 1970s. Now go ahead and tell your "campaign-entrants" that they can't use their "ultra-high-dollar" Quadruple-Action IWATAS and the like, PLUS their Whoopdie-doo fancy acrylic paints, such as VALLEJO, AK INTERACTIVE, MISSION MODELS, etc. THIS STUFF is 21st Century technology. If you go ahead and bar the use of this stuff, you'll have a REVOLUTION on your hands...

Are we to surmise that only 1970s-vintage paints, adhesives, sandpapers, and "you-name-its" are allowed to be used in order to complete a 1970s kit??? You're going for the "purist"-methods, so the "NEW" ancillary stuff, by rights, should not be allowed. If that's the case, it's going to be a very tall order to actually complete anything that's over 25-years old with "over 25-years-old technology"...

etc.
etc..
etc...



Honestly Dennis, you need to take a chill-pill!
What's the matter with you? You have an argumentative streak or what?
I do not care what mr. Paine would have used or that you feel we should use or not use this or that "by right" or what credentials you think you have.

I proposed a campaign to honor the man, commemorate his untimely passing and to encourage others to use some of the techniques that earned him his name and fame in that campaign. Nothing purist, just basic fun with a decent dose of nostaligia.

If you have something constructive to say I am all ears, however if you do not or not like the campaign... I am sure you can find your way out?





"Honestly", I do not "need to take a chill-pill", and there is nothing "the matter with me"... Do the subtleties of "dry humor" escape you? Did you not notice my little "laughing emojis" in my posts? I was trying to inject a little bit of humor "into the mix". I don't "get excited" like I used to because of my health problems. It is YOU that needs to "take a chill-pill" and you need to curb your desire to deride people who offer opinions, and a little bit of their own "nostalgic memories".

I WAS going to "watch" this "little campaign of yours" with interest, but if you're going to be so narrow-minded as to "not care" what "mr." Paine used or didn't use in order to create all of his beautiful work, then you cannot possibly appreciate how "Mr." Paine actually accomplished it...

I will be happy to to keep my advice and experience in helping some of you guys out with these old kits, to myself. So, as far as any "constructive advice" that I have to offer, stemming from my past experiences in building the various kits that have been mentioned by myself and other people in this thread, forget it...

"Finding my way out", is NO PROBLEM with me; I have a good sense of direction. It's YOU that needs a compass, or a GPS-box mounted to your forehead...

PS- You need to add a "spell-check" to your computer's capabilities, or take a refresher course in basic English...

alanmac
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United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 2,908 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 11:22 PM UTC
I shouldn't worry, or indeed spend time responding to Dennis, he hasn't got the ability to see how he comes across even if you were at pains to point it out.

His main hobby in life it seems is to come on the site pontificating about his modelling experience, views on life, expecting everybody to agree, and heaven help you if you don't....

I don't expect response from him either as I'm sure I'm on his "hide user" list, which really tickles me, as I can tell it like it is without having half a page of drivel in response.

petbat
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2005
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,109 posts
Posted: Friday, June 28, 2019 - 11:28 PM UTC
Hey, lets put the rattling sabres away guys. Sniping at each other will not get anyone anywhere.

Dennis, your constructive comments in the forums are always appreciated, however I have noted that occasionally your 'humour' can be read as quite acerbic. That may not be your intention, but written text does not always convey the intent of the writer as expected, emoji or not.

I can certainly see where Ron may have construed your meaning differently to what you may have intended, as I also read the 2 paragraphs ending in "over 25-years-old Technology" as somewhat critical, and to be honest, a little demeaning - and not an emoji in sight for these. Yes maybe not what you intended of course, but sometimes we need to sit back and reflect on what we type.


Ron, appreciate that you felt Dennis was 'taking a shot' at you, but I have learned that comments are not always as they seem and even if they are, maybe a less direct response might have been the best approach to what you saw as an issue?

It is your campaign proposal, so you have the right to define your rules as you see fit, but keeping all participants to the thread, including yourself, civil also comes with the job of running a build. It is very easy to get carried away, but sometimes 'letting the ball through to the keeper' is the best play.


The above is intended as constructive feedback to you both and everyone else here. Hopefully now everyone can get back on track as to what the Forum, and especially the Group Builds, are all about - establishing comradery between participants and having fun. I am particularly looking forward to see what everyone builds and how they choose to build it.
yeahwiggie
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Dalarnas, Sweden
Joined: March 24, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 01:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It is very easy to get carried away, but sometimes 'letting the ball through to the keeper' is the best play.


The above is intended as constructive feedback to you both and everyone else here. Hopefully now everyone can get back on track as to what the Forum, and especially the Group Builds, are all about - establishing comradery between participants and having fun. I am particularly looking forward to see what everyone builds and how they choose to build it.



Thanks, I'll keep it in mind.
I usually do not play defensive.
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 02:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Harv-I had that kit in my stash, picked it up at HobbyLobby for $7.50 and did not build it. I gave it to my kids for the 4-H Christmas gift exchange. They told me it was the most popular gift, getting exchanged several times. I didn't even know kids still built models or I would've thrown in a tube of glue.
Looking forward to your build. Maybe I'll build my Sherman for this campaign.

Dennis-I'll take the bait. What other original Monogram kits do you have?

Take care,
Don "Lakota"



OK, I'll take Don's, (Lakota's) query and interest in my collection of unbuilt "ORIGINAL-issue" kits to heart, and I will go ahead with a short list. Mind you, please don't ask me if I'm willing to part with, i.e sell, any of this stuff because it is all bequeathed to my Nephew after I depart "this world"...

These are all in single quantities:

1/48 AURORA Albatross D.III WW I Fighter
1/48 AURORA SE.5a WW I Fighter(Hispano Engine-type)
1/48 AURORA Boeing F4B4 Navy Carrier Fighter
1/48 AURORA Boeing P-12E Army Fighter
1/72 AURORA F4F Wildcat Fighter
1/48 MONOGRAM Spitfire Mk.IX fighter
1/48 MONOGRAM Japanese "Zero/Zeke" A6M5 Fighter
1/48 MONOGRAM Messerschmitt Bf.109E Fighter
1/48 MONOGRAM F4F-4 Wildcat Fighter
1/48 MONOGRAM SBD Dauntless Dive Bomber
1/48 MONOGRAM TBF Avenger Torpedo Bomber
1/48 MONOGRAM SB2C Helldiver Dive Bomber
1/48 MONOGRAM F6F-5 Hellcat Fighter
1/48 MONOGRAM Hawker Hurricane Fighter
1/48 MONOGRAM Focke-Wulf Fw.190A-series Fighter, (This was actually MONOGRAM's VERY FIRST "better" aircraft kit, WITHOUT "operating features", and a builders' choice of about a half-dozen different aircraft-types, with different armament and external weapons and/or ordnance stores)


These above are all "toy-like" in execution, with the MONOGRAM kits having "operating features" which I think actually DETRACTED from the accuracy of the kits themselves. The exception, of course was their Fw.190A-series kit, as described above. The above-listed AURORA kits above actually weren't "that bad" when compared to the rest of their horrible 1/48 aircraft kits...

The following are the better ORIGINAL kits that came out a few years PRIOR to the "Shepard Paine-era":

1/48 MONOGRAM P-40B "Tiger Shark" Fighter
1/48 MONOGRAM P-51B Mustang Fighter
1/48 MONOGRAM P-38J/L/M Lightning Fighter (builders' choice of various types)
1/48 MONOGRAM Mosquito B/FB/NF/PRU (builders' choice of various types)
1/48 MONOGRAM TYPHOON Mk.Ib Fighter-Bomber ("Teardrop" Bubble Canopy, 4-Blade Propeller)
1/48 MONOGRAM P-47D-25 Thunderbolt Fighter- Francis S. Gabreski's machine
1/48 MONOGRAM OS2U Kingfisher Observation Seaplane- I have 2 of these, one of which has the whole array of CUTTING EDGE resin "corrections" and updates- Cockpit, Engine and Engine Cowl, & "corrected" Floats, with a PE set that I "liberated" from a newer-issue MONOGRAM Kingfisher kit...

The following may not be within the purview of MILITARY models, but nevertheless, they are ORIGINAL-release kits, all the same:
(most of these have had their boxes opened)

1/24 MONOGRAM 1930 Model A Ford Coupe/Cabriolet, (builders' choice of Stock, Hot Rod, Custom, or Competition)- I have about a half-dozen of these ORIGINALS
1/24 MONOGRAM 1930 Model A Ford Phaeton, (DITTO, builders' choices) -2
1/24 MONOGRAM 1934 Ford V-8 Coupe/Cabriolet, (DITTO, builders' choices) -1
1/24 MONOGRAM 1936 Ford V-8 Coupe/Cabriolet, (DITTO, builders' choices) -1
1/24 MONOGRAM "Green Hornet" Hot Rod, (Model T Ford-type "Bucket" Roadster body) -3
1/24 MONOGRAM "Black Widow" Hot Rod, (Model T Ford-type "Bucket" Pick-up body) -3
1/24 MONOGRAM 1934 Duesenberg SJ Weymann "Torpedo"-Phaeton -1
1/24 MONOGRAM 1935 Mercedes 540SK Cabriolet -1
1/24 MONOGRAM 1937 Cord Phaeton -3
1/24 MONOGRAM Bugatti 35B Le Mans Racer -1

This is the only early MONOGRAM "Military" kit that I still own- The 1/32 MONOGRAM M29 Weasel -1 (All the rest, the MONOGRAM 1/32 M15 US Half-Track kits, the M35 "Eager Beavers", the Jeeps with M1 37mm Anti-Tank Guns, the REVELL 1/40 Shermans and their T-34 and M4 Artillery Tractor & M1 155mm "Long Tom" Gun, along with some pretty horrible 1/48 AURORA Tank kits have all gone on to "Busted Model Heaven", never to be seen or heard from again...


The following are kits that started to appear just about the same time as Shep Paine started doing the MONOGRAM MODELS "How To" monographs included in some of their selected "better" kits. MOST of these are still sealed in their ORIGINAL boxes:

1/48 TAMIYA A6M2 Japanese Navy Carrier Fighter -1
1/48 TAMIYA A6M3 (Ditto) -1
1/48 TAMIYA A6M5 (Ditto) -1
1/50(?) TAMIYA FM-2 "Type "0" "Pete" Japanese Navy Seaplane Observation Plane -1
1/48 NICHIMO Aichi E-13 "Jake" Twin-Float Observation Seaplane, (This one has been opened and includes the resin CUTTING EDGE Cockpit and Floats "update sets") -1

(I included the above because they were "Shep-Paine-era" kits. Once again, these are all ORIGINAL-issues...)

The following are actual Shep Paine "How-To"-era kits:

1/48 MONOGRAM B-17G Flying Fortress- (no explanation required, here) -3
1/48 REVELL B-17F Flying Fortress "Memphis Belle"-2, one of which is in an open box, and will be converted/kit-bashed with another one of my later-issue MONOGRAM B-17Gs, in order to "correct" the B-17F kit
1/48 MONOGRAM B-25H Mitchell Medium Bomber (Gun Nose) -2
1/48 MONOGRAM B-25J Mitchell Medium Bomber (Glass Nose) -1
1/48 MONOGRAM B-26 Marauder Medium Bomber -4
1/48 MONOGRAM P-61A Night Fighter -1
1/48 MONOGRAM B-24J Liberator Bomber -1
1/48 MONOGRAM P-47D-20 Thunderbolt "Razorback" -1, (Frank Klibbe's "Little Chief") (I built about a half-dozen for customers)
1/48 MONOGRAM Dornier Do.335A-1 "Ameisenbaer" ("Anteater") -1
1/48 MONOGRAM Junkers Ju.87G "Kanonenvogel" ("Cannon-Bird") -1
1/48 MONOGRAM P-51D Mustang -1 (I built about a DOZEN of these for customers)
1/48 MONOGRAM B-29A Superfortress -2 (one in opened box)
1/32 MONOGRAM British "Grant" Medium Tank -1
1/32 MONOGRAM US M3 "Lee" -1- (It was right about at this time that I was starting to get more into 1/35 Armor and other Military subject-matter; TAMIYA had a BIG influence on me in this respect, because it seemed that they were coming out with a new kit every week!!! AMAZING stuff, when compared to the crude earlier MONOGRAM 1/32 Armor. I was also starting to get into the better 1/48 HASEGAWA Aircraft kits, and TAMIYA's 1/48 Aircraft kits were getting better and better, all the time)
1/32 MONOGRAM German Panzer Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.J -1
1/48 MONOGRAM P-39 Airacobra -4 (open boxes, various new decal sets, which I'll more than likely use with my EDUARD 1/48 P-39s, instead)

It was also at this time, (mid 1970s) that I was "getting into" figure-building and painting, largely the HISTOREX-range of 54mm Napoleonics, mainly because I had started watching Tostoy's "WAR and PEACE" created by the BBC, via the US National Public Broadcasting Company, which is now PBS. That did it! I bought the book, (Just got done reading that book again for the 23rd time a couple of weeks ago), and I got all of the then-available figure-painting guides and books, (no "How-To videos, back then), not to mention a HOST of OSPREY's Illustrated "Men At War" Napoleonic-era history books in order to help me with my developing skills and the myriad of Uniforms and accouterments. I fast-developed into a real, accomplished and very dedicated figure-painter... That's another story, but Shep Paine's info-booklets helped me in THIS new endeavor, as well...

The following are kits that were being developed while Shep was still getting some of his stuff published, but we are now getting into the late 1980s and the 1990s...

1/48 MONOGRAM PBY-5 Catalina Seaplane, (This is the early version "Cat" WITHOUT the retractable-type Undercarriage [modelers' choice of "retracted" or "extended" Landing Gear] of the later-model PBY-5A MONOGRAM kit, of which there was also a "Black Cat" OA(PBY)-5A version, as well)
1/48 MONOGRAM Junkers Ju.52c-3/M "Tante Ju" ("Auntie Ju") Transport -1
Ex-ACCURATE MINIATURES/MONOGRAM/PRO MODELER SB2C "Early and Late" Helldiver Dive Bombers -4, (all in open boxes)
MONOGRAM/PRO MODELER Focke-Wulf Ta.154 "Moskito" -1 (open box)
MONGRAM/PRO MODELER Messerschmitt Bf.110G "Zerstorer" (open box)

I have also accumulated quite a few of the now-defunct line of 1/48 ACCURATE MINIATURES TBF/TBM Avengers, an SB2U Vindicator, SBD-2s, -3s and one -5, MULTIPLE A-36 Apaches, P-51s, P-51As, Mustang Mk.Ias, one P-51B "Paul Mantz Bendix Trophy Racer" and two F2G Corsairs...

So, I was well on the way to amassing a huge 1/48 Aircraft and 1/35 Armor & Military Vehicle collection- These are all kits that go back to the 1990s, (and a few left-overs from the '70s and'80s) and on up to today's latest kits, so there is no point in discussing them, since they are all fairly common...

DON'T ask me about all of my ridiculously-expensive HO scale brass and "high-end" multi-media Steam-era stuff that I was starting to accumulate since the late 1970s- I could write a book about that. DITTO my 1/24 FRANKLIN MINT, DANBURY MINT, and YAT-MING/ROAD SIGNATURE die-cast Collector Classic Cars, Trucks, and Fire Engines. I also built a dizzying array of 1/24 and 1/25 MONOGRAM AMT, AMT/ERTL, JO-HAN, REVELL, LINDBERG, PYRO, ITALERI, TESTORS/ITALERI, FUJIMI and TAMIYA car models... Then, there are my 1/24 and 1/25 Modifieds and Sprint Cars, which have all been "accuratized"...

WHEW! Just writing this very abbreviated list down has tired me out. I could go on and on, but I don't want to wear YOU out, either!

PS- Please note that I've built many MULTIPLES of ALL of these above-listed kits, for my past customers and for myself, which is why I "work" in a very "laid-back"-style of model-building, today. No time constraints, no deadlines, no overly-eager customers calling me up (pre-on line nonsense), and asking me when they are going to get their orders, even though most times, I was "on, or ahead of previously agreed-upon scheduling". I've mentioned before that sometimes, weeks will go by before I even go near my workbenches... Then, there's my health... Do you blame me for not "living models" 24/7..?
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 02:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

It is very easy to get carried away, but sometimes 'letting the ball through to the keeper' is the best play.


The above is intended as constructive feedback to you both and everyone else here. Hopefully now everyone can get back on track as to what the Forum, and especially the Group Builds, are all about - establishing comradery between participants and having fun. I am particularly looking forward to see what everyone builds and how they choose to build it.



Thanks, I'll keep it in mind.
I usually do not play defensive.



Peace..?
yeahwiggie
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 03:08 AM UTC
Taking into consideration what I have seen and learned so far, I'd say truce.

Lakota
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 04:15 AM UTC
Dennis-Wow! Thanks for the list and ideas. I was thinking of keeping my Shep Paine campaign build limited to armor models. I think the only "early" kits I have that were released over 25 years ago are limited to a couple of Tamiya kits, some braille scale Hasegawa and some Bandai 1/48 kits. HobbyLobby is selling the M48 tank so that may be a possibility.

Ron-Is it acceptable to use modern painting methods? I might consider building the Tamiya kits if I can use some modulation methods.

By the way, it's nice we can all agree to be civil. This sounds like it can be a great campaign and Dennis has a wealth of knowledge. He's helped me with P-47M information that would've taken me hours if not days to research.

Thanks guys. Take care,
Don "Lakota
yeahwiggie
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 04:25 AM UTC
I said nothing about painting methods.
If you're into modulation, go for it.

Paint is subject to spoiling, so demanding an age restriction on that would be (considered by me) absurd.
barkingdigger
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 09:29 AM UTC
Hi Dennis,

What scares me is how many of the kits on your list I had, built, and busted in my younger years! Was the Francis Gabreski (of P47 fame) the same Frank Gabreski who went on to skipper the Long Island Rail Road?

For me the only qualifying kit in my stash at the moment is the Monogram M48A2 - all the wingy things went ages ago as my interests shifted first to cars, then trains, before returning to tanks. Wouldn't mind finding that Weasel again though! (Some day one'll pop up at a show...)
petbat
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Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 10:12 AM UTC
The 25 years benchmark (up to June 1994), still allows for kits released under many labels, or re-released under others in more recent times e.g. Matchbox releases under Revell or AMT.

It also allows a very wider selection of manufacturers, scales and genre than you may think. There is a lot of Italeri kits that fit the period and even some of DML's earlier kits like the ZSU 23-4 Shilka and MLRS, or their re-releases of Gunze kits under the "Imperial Label" fit the time period by a few years. You might be surprised what is lurking in the stash but will fit the bill.