login   |    register
Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Takom sdkfz 186 hunting tiger in 1/35 coming
knewton
Visit this Community
New Zealand
Joined: June 19, 2013
KitMaker: 1,006 posts
Armorama: 914 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2019 - 04:31 PM UTC
http://moxingfans.com/m/view.php?aid=6093

The most recent iteration of this great vehicle
27-1025
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,220 posts
Armorama: 1,165 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2019 - 04:58 PM UTC
Am so very impressed with Takom so far, I'll give this one a try when it's released. Will also probably be much lower priced than the Tamiya offering.
deathdork
Joined: March 26, 2007
KitMaker: 261 posts
Armorama: 249 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2019 - 05:04 PM UTC
Anyone taking bets as to how long before the interior version comes to market??
knewton
Visit this Community
New Zealand
Joined: June 19, 2013
KitMaker: 1,006 posts
Armorama: 914 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2019 - 05:36 PM UTC
Or, how long until a second manufacturer announces one?
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 2,927 posts
Armorama: 2,758 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2019 - 06:56 PM UTC
Yep. I'm sure that Meng will step up, and RFM, as well. No complaints to that - They will all likely be good kits, and we all like choices, so... All GOOD!

And yeah, soon the "w/ complete interior" will appear. It happened with Tiger I, II, Panther, Jagdpanther, Bergepanther, T-54/55, M1, Grants and Lees, bunches of old Brit AC and tanks, and oodles of other things, so... WHY NOT a Jagdtiger w/interior? I wouldn't begin to put down money against that coming along.

I built the old Tamiya J-T thing about 45 years ago... along with their J-Panther and a StuG III G. Mr. Tamiya and Co was The Man back then. Takom does some pretty nice kits, and I'm thinking that it's high time that I build one of these big old kitties... So I think that I'll be in line when this one hits the street!

Bob
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 12:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

http://moxingfans.com/m/view.php?aid=6093

The most recent iteration of this great vehicle



Hi, All!

If anyone had read the TAKOM announcement properly, you would have noticed that TAKOM is labeling this new Jagdtiger as a "BLITZKIT". There is NO INTERIOR for a reason. Read between TAKOM's lines.

TAKOM's reasoning is that there are quite a few modelers out there who DON"T want an "Interior" and "Indy-Links" because it "ups" the parts-count and the model's complexity. That's why this thing is called a "BLITZKIT"...

YES, there is no doubt in my mind that more NEW Jagdtigers will come to market made by other manufacturers, and also from TAKOM. BUT, be prepared to see more "BLITZKITS" from TAKOM. And more than likely, models from the "other" manufacturers which are designed with more "simplicity". That's been TAMIYA's domain for years, and years... So, really, nothing new here...

How many of you guys have read articles here on ARMORAMA where modelers have expressed their "dislike" of the "high parts-counts" which are being produced today, the primary causes of which are a full set of "indy-links" and a "full Interior"? If you read into this, that means that there are quite a few modelers who like the "simplicity" of TAMIYA's 1/35 and 1/48 Armor kits. I think that TAKOM has taken these preferences to heart, and have come up with the "BLITZKIT". Can't blame them, really...

Please don't misconstrue what I'm saying- There are still plenty of modelers who love "indy-links" and they DO desire to have Interiors included in their 1/35 subject matter. As for myself, I don't need a "full" interior ALL of the time, especially when you can't see it, anyway. "Indy-Links"? Well, that depends on the subject. Most American Armored Vehicles use "Live Track", where almost NO "Track-Sag" is evident. There ARE exceptions, (M551 Sheridan, M113, M108, M109, M110), but comparatively speaking, not that many. WWII German Armor, most Soviet Armor and the British "Cruiser Tanks" of that era show A LOT of "track-sag". Therefore, I think, "indy-links" are almost "de rigeur" in these kinds of kits.

I also think that in order to alleviate the "high parts-counts" of most WWII German, Soviet Armor, and those few British Tanks, "Link-and-Length" Tracks and MINIMAL Interiors are the easiest, quickest and least painful answers...

So, KUDOS go to TAKOM for the inclusion of "link-and-length" Tracks in their new "BLITZKIT" Jagdtiger, but I think that they should have at least given the modelers a "minimal" Interior, i.e, components which can be readily seen with the Hatches open. I think that they SHOULD follow-through with "BLITZKIT" Panthers, and Tigers I & II..

Your thoughts..?
DickJones
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: November 12, 2014
KitMaker: 28 posts
Armorama: 28 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 12:23 AM UTC
I'm interested in how many parts there are in these new 'quick build' kits.
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 01:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm interested in how many parts there are in these new 'quick build' kits.



Hi, Jordan!

AH HAH!!!

Do the rest of you guys understand what I said in my previous post? Jordan seems to be one among many I'm sure, who at least questions the parts-count. I myself, would like to know...

Jordan- Seeing that there is no Interior, and the Tracks are supposedly the "link-and-length" type of design, an approximate "estimate" of the parts-count for this new Jagdtiger might probably be at most, ONE THIRD, or maybe HALF of the parts that would be associated with a Tiger II kit which includes a "full" Interior and a "full" set of "indy-link" Tracks.

OK, so let's just take a quick look...

In looking at it from a "strictly engineering"-type point of view, I'm going to surmise that since TAKOM has stated that the Tracks will be of the "link-and-length"-type, you'll only have "indy-links" to deal with at the "Front" and "Rear"-ends of the Tracks, with solidly-molded upper and lower Track-runs X 2. Obviously, you'll still have multiple parts for the Track Sprockets, Rear Idlers, and of course, your Road Wheels. The suspension itself is "up for grabs". I would question the necessity of "moving"/"pose-able" Torsion Arms and Bars, as the Tracks themselves are to be "link-and-length", so "posing" of the Suspension would seem to be obviated to begin with. At most, I would look for separate "stationary" Torsion Arms, or at least, Torsion Arms which are already molded integrally to the Lower Hull sides, a la TAMIYA. A LOT less parts, that way... Which brings us to...

Road-wheels- We all know about the WWII Germans' penchant for (obsession with?) multitudinous Road-wheels on their heavier Armored Vehicles. So, about 6000 of those, at least! Just kidding...

So how many Road-Wheels are there on a Kitty-II or a J-Kitty..? 32 of them? I don't know, I never stopped to count 'em all. I'll just leave THAT the hell alone!

The Main Gun- Externally, a slide-molded Barrel, with a separate Gun Mantlet. POSSIBLY a "simplified" Inner Gun Tube, Breech, two Recuperators, and a "simplified" Gun Cradle- No great bloody-amount of parts, there...

No Interior- Potentially, that means NO Engine Compartment, which could mean no Engine with all of its associated parts. There are probably no Transmission or complex Final Drives up front. PROBABLY you'd get the Engine Fans and Radiators, but I'm sure that these would also be "minimal". Driver's Compartment? Doubtful. Ditto, the Fighting Compartment; NO Seats, Handles, Gun-Eleveation and Sighting Equipment, Co-axial Weapons, Defensive Weapons, Canteens, Gas Masks, Ammo, Ammo Bins, Radios, Speaking Tubes, Telephones, Cellphones, Gizmos or Widgets, Gadgets, Potato Masher Grenades, Dumbwaiters, Ovens, Microwaves, Refrigerators, Dishwashers, Hand Towels or Handkerchiefs- Even LESS parts to deal with. Minimal Periscopes, at best. MAYBE a minimal Bow Machine Gun. What else is there..? I don't remember seeing anything about Crew Members...

So there you have it- Not too hard to figure out, is it? If there are over 250 parts in this kit, I'll be surprised. If there are, well then, the joke's on me!!!

Conversely, TAKOM's Bergepanther Ausf.D contains 1100 parts, but you're dealing with a VERY complex interior, (Mark [dp111298pw] has just done an EXCELLENT review of this kit in the "REVIEWS" section), even WITH the kit including "link-and-length" Tracks!!! :O All I can say to that is, WOW!!!
DickJones
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: November 12, 2014
KitMaker: 28 posts
Armorama: 28 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 03:26 AM UTC
Dennis... I'm not sure how I feel about this. I mean, does it mean 'shake n' bake' is being taken to a whole new level? That there's been leaps in moulding technology? That parts will come already fused to other parts?

I mean I for one can't stand painting tools that are already glued down.

Nobody likes a sweat shop list of super-pedant parts, but at the same time...

Takom is a good brand though. I like their box art. And the Type 69-IIC is the most fun I've ever had building a tank, and turned out to be my best work... and it was jam packed with fidgety stuff.
m4sherman
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,756 posts
Armorama: 1,707 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 11:36 AM UTC
Following the link I noticed the kit has link and length tracks, PE and separate hatches. Maybe the Blitz thing is aimed at making a kit with no interior and fewer parts, but not going back to the very old everything molded on days.
nsjohn
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: July 26, 2018
KitMaker: 135 posts
Armorama: 129 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 02:25 PM UTC
Das Werk are releasing Takom's Panther Ausf A without an interior, which I think is likely to be the same idea as this Blitz kit. Haven't seen any reviews as yet.
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 09:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Dennis... I'm not sure how I feel about this. I mean, does it mean 'shake n' bake' is being taken to a whole new level? That there's been leaps in moulding technology? That parts will come already fused to other parts?

I mean I for one can't stand painting tools that are already glued down.

Nobody likes a sweat shop list of super-pedant parts, but at the same time...

Takom is a good brand though. I like their box art. And the Type 69-IIC is the most fun I've ever had building a tank, and turned out to be my best work... and it was jam packed with fidgety stuff.



Hi, Jordan!

No, I don't think that TAKOM would ruin their fine reputation by subjecting modelers to "molded-on tools" as manufacturers did as recently as the 1980s. I'm only taking at "face value" what TAKOM laid out in their announcement of this new Jagdtiger kit, i.e, no Interior, "Link-and-Length" Tracks, and all the rest of the things I mentioned in my previous post. "Link-and-Length" Tracks, in my own opinion, are not necessarily a bad thing- They "streamline" the assembly process, so that modelers don't have to deal with the "drudgery" of assembling "Indy-Link" Track-sets. As I said earlier, there ARE quite a few modelers who don't necessarily want an Interior in some of their kits, especially if "the views" of these Interiors are severely limited to what one can actually see through "open" Hatches...

I don't see TAKOM skimping on entire Road-wheel assemblies, as DRAGON did with one of their expensive "Cheapie" Tiger I-"Early Production, Operation Citadel, LSSAH" offerings, by giving modelers Road-wheel assemblies which were molded all together IN ONE PIECE on one sprue, rather than individual Road-wheels, as they should have done. (see DRAGON Tiger I kit #9142)... I don't think that that kit turned out to be an "epic success story" for modelers, and especially not for DRAGON...

So, yes, Jordan- There HAVE been great leaps in plastic-molding technology and parts-accuracy with the advent of "Slide-mold Technology". "A new level", as you will. We can now look forward to accuracy in model kits which we could only dream of just a few years ago. For examples, accurately-shaped one-piece Upper and Lower Hulls, which at one time needed to be "built-up" out of several parts in the "better" Armor kits. One-piece, slide-molded Gun Barrels are another good example. No seams to fill, and no danger of sanding the seams flat, so that your Gun Barrel looks like an oval, instead of being round. Beautifully molded Personal Weapons, Gun Sights, Jerry Cans, you name it. The drawback is, plastic injection slide-molding is very expensive, because of the complexity of the molds. But you get what you pay for, and a lot of modelers I think, lose sight of that...
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 09:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Following the link I noticed the kit has link and length tracks, PE and separate hatches. Maybe the Blitz thing is aimed at making a kit with no interior and fewer parts, but not going back to the very old everything molded on days.



Hi, Randy!

Yes, I agree with that...
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 09:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Das Werk are releasing Takom's Panther Ausf A without an interior, which I think is likely to be the same idea as this Blitz kit. Haven't seen any reviews as yet.



Hi, Norman!

Yes, I think we'll be seeing a slightly divergent trend for "abbreviated" kits from various different manufacturers so that they can hold on to the modelers who feel/felt that they were a little bit "out of their depth" because of the growing complexity of model kits, especially 1/35 Armor...

Simplicity, up to a certain point, can't be too much of a bad thing, can it..?
nsjohn
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: July 26, 2018
KitMaker: 135 posts
Armorama: 129 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 11:53 PM UTC
Hi Dennis. I agree. The recent trend is for companies to have specific sprues for the interior and exterior of the kit, and therefore they can release a cheaper kit simply by omitting certain parts. I don't think they would retool the exterior sprues as that would seem to be an unnecessary expense with no cost benefit. I think it would be wrong to regard them as simplified as the exterior will still be the same, and as we all know they can be far from simple. They will want to differenciate these kits from their full kits hence the "Blitz" label in the same way as Dragon have their Orange Label, or by selling through 3rd parties such as Das Werks. I hope I am right as it can only benefit the hobby.
alanmac
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 2,907 posts
Armorama: 2,829 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 12:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text


So, yes, Jordan- There HAVE been great leaps in plastic-molding technology and parts-accuracy with the advent of "Slide-mold Technology". "A new level", as you will. We can now look forward to accuracy in model kits which we could only dream of just a few years ago.



No, Slide Mold Technology isn't new at all. It's been around for years, it's just manufactures like Dragon used it as a marketing tag to make out they had created something from this "new" technology and easily impressed modellers brought into the marketing waffle.

Manufacturers like Italeri and Tamiya were using it before manufactures like Dragon even came on the scene. The molds are very expensive to make so I'm guessing they looked to other cheaper ways of getting more or less the same result.
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 10:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


So, yes, Jordan- There HAVE been great leaps in plastic-molding technology and parts-accuracy with the advent of "Slide-mold Technology". "A new level", as you will. We can now look forward to accuracy in model kits which we could only dream of just a few years ago.



No, Slide Mold Technology isn't new at all. It's been around for years, it's just manufactures like Dragon used it as a marketing tag to make out they had created something from this "new" technology and easily impressed modellers brought into the marketing waffle.

Manufacturers like Italeri and Tamiya were using it before manufactures like Dragon even came on the scene. The molds are very expensive to make so I'm guessing they looked to other cheaper ways of getting more or less the same result.



Hi, Alan!

How many years ago were ITALERI and TAMIYA using slide-mold technology? Would you know, offhand...?
m4sherman
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,756 posts
Armorama: 1,707 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 10:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


So, yes, Jordan- There HAVE been great leaps in plastic-molding technology and parts-accuracy with the advent of "Slide-mold Technology". "A new level", as you will. We can now look forward to accuracy in model kits which we could only dream of just a few years ago.



No, Slide Mold Technology isn't new at all. It's been around for years, it's just manufactures like Dragon used it as a marketing tag to make out they had created something from this "new" technology and easily impressed modellers brought into the marketing waffle.

Manufacturers like Italeri and Tamiya were using it before manufactures like Dragon even came on the scene. The molds are very expensive to make so I'm guessing they looked to other cheaper ways of getting more or less the same result.



Hi, Alan!

How many years ago were ITALERI and TAMIYA using slide-mold technology? Would you know, offhand...?



Having built many of the old Tamiya T-34, it was clear the sides of the lower hull were molded with some form of a slide mold. No seams on the road wheel mount shafts is the give away. Most of the old one part lower hull tubs were the same. The same for the Italeri kits. So at least as far back as the 1970's.
Tojo72
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,537 posts
Armorama: 3,406 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 11:43 AM UTC
I recently built the superb Dragon Porsche,and the Tamiya Henschel,so I will sit this one out.
But,hey I always say the more releases the better.
Bravo1102
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,655 posts
Armorama: 2,316 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 09:14 PM UTC
Slide molds were mostly restricted to armor tub hulls, car bodies and one piece ship hulls until Dragon started using mold inserts on regular sprues to get a hole on pieces traditionally molded in halves or solid.

One of the biggest users of multiple piece slide molds was in model railroads. All those wild one piece detailed Roco minitanks hulls were slide molds. Imagine an injection molded M7 Priest top hull in one piece, that's slide molding. Slide molding or Multiple piece molds that are at different angles to one another was also a big seller for classic 1/25-1/25 scale car kits. Mold lines in odd places have been a problem for car builders for a long time.

IIRC it was Jo-han that was among the first to promote multi side molds being used on their car kit bodies waaaaay back. When some early 60s kits reappeared in the 1970s-80s the boxes hadn't been changed and still promoted it.

Historex used a lot of insert molding for one piece hallow headgear and buckets. They were small molds for one thing so a multi piece mold was not a big deal.

But when a company started using multiple inserts on a normal large frame mold, that actually was something new. It was old technology but no one had done it like that before to the extent it was being done until it became more than gimmick and became the usual way of doing things.

Wow.

This trip down multiple sided mold technology brought to you by Rubbermaid-- great innovation in plastic molding.
panamadan
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,224 posts
Armorama: 1,166 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 12:30 AM UTC
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 02:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text




Maybe so, but I for one, am interested in knowing how our models are manufactured...
panamadan
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,224 posts
Armorama: 1,166 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 04:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text




Maybe so, but I for one, am interested in knowing how our models are manufactured...


What does it have to do with the subject of the thread?
If you want to know about how models are made start a thread of this subject yourself.
I'm visiting here to try and see what info there is about the takom kit.
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 05:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text




Maybe so, but I for one, am interested in knowing how our models are manufactured...


What does it have to do with the subject of the thread?
If you want to know about how models are made start a thread of this subject yourself.
I'm visiting here to try and see what info there is about the takom kit.



The only info about the new TAKOM Jagdtiger is what TAKOM themselves have advertised. One of the other readers posed a question, to which I gave a conjectural answer, to which in turn, several other readers made comments. I in turn posed a question and another comment. If you're opposed to a succession of events, please don't put the rest of us down for it...

Thank You for your "interest" and have a better day...

VR, Dennis
TankManNick
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: February 01, 2010
KitMaker: 417 posts
Armorama: 412 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 05:55 AM UTC
Well gosh, sounds like a 'Forum' to me, and as Dennis said, it's all conjecture at this point until someone has the model in their hands! There is really very little info about how models get made, so peeps are curious!