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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
when did panzer IV get added schurzen?
johnstone
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Alabama, United States
Joined: September 11, 2017
KitMaker: 52 posts
Armorama: 50 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 - 11:15 AM UTC
Hi everyone. Just bought the new Border Panzer IV kit (their first offering). Had in mind to do a Kharkov 1943 diorama. Now I find that the kit can't be built without the schurzen.
Did any Panzer IV's at this battle have those? All the photos I've seen do not have them.
Thanks much for any info!!
John
russamotto
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Utah, United States
Joined: December 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,342 posts
Armorama: 2,040 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 - 11:35 AM UTC
Late March to April of 1943.
panzerbob01
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Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,061 posts
Armorama: 2,892 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 - 11:41 AM UTC
It seems that plate schurzen were first installed on Pz. IV Ausf G starting in Mar, 1943. So it is "legit" to 1) model a later IV-Ausf G (some present in Russia and probably at "Kursk" after June/July 1943), 2) any IV-Ausf H (entered production in June 1943), and 3) generally any but some of the last production IV-Ausf J, with plate schurzen. Later J sometimes came with the mesh "Thoma" schurzen..

As schurzen became standard issue equipment on Pz. IV only after Mar, 1943, probably relatively few Ausf G actually rolled off the lines wearing them. Some G which were returned to Nibelungenwerke for rebuilding after June 1943 were likely updated with schurzen before being sent back to action. "All" IV-Ausf H tanks were supposed to be outfitted with schurzen at original production.

The 3rd battle for Kharkov - ca Feb 1943 - involved some IV-Ausf G - but none of these could have had (factory production) schurzen, as that didn't start up until later Mar, 1943. So, if it's a Kharkov IV that you want to model... the participating long-gun Pz. IV were some F/F2 and some G - all without schurzen. IF your kit is a G but requires you to actually mount the schurzen to build it... that is not, FAIK, "legit" as a Kharkov IV.

Cheers! Bob
johnstone
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Alabama, United States
Joined: September 11, 2017
KitMaker: 52 posts
Armorama: 50 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 - 02:07 PM UTC
Thanks guys!!