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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
weathering products
errains
#045
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Posted: Monday, January 20, 2020 - 04:18 AM UTC
Kool Ryan Glade you like it.

I do not secure the wooden block into foam base. Since it's about the same thickness as the foam it stays in good most of the time. If I need to rotate it I just be careful and not to tip it out. I use the Panavise if I need to work on the kit at an angle.
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Tank1812
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Posted: Monday, January 20, 2020 - 03:51 AM UTC
I like the idea. Thanks for sharing.

Do you find the need to keep the block secured to the base, in case you turn it over or sideways?
errains
#045
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Posted: Monday, January 20, 2020 - 02:50 AM UTC
Goodmorning Ryan,

I was thinking of starting a thread on the oil paint once i was a bit comfortable with.

Oops forgot to add the cork and foam base stuff.
I borrowed this idea from wooden ship model builders, which they call a build board. The Idea is to hold your model and use the building board so as not to directly handle the model. It really simple to make, I have about 10 of the in my studio.

Here are materials needed to make a building board.


Here is a slide I made up a few years ago about making the board.



Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions.
Tank1812
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Posted: Monday, January 20, 2020 - 01:35 AM UTC
Very interesting, still seems weird but your results look good. Thanks for sharing this technique. Probably would be best if a separate thread is also started so more folks can see it as opposed to this thread with ‘extra content’ (which I have also enjoyed).

Can explain more about the cork and foam base?
errains
#045
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Posted: Sunday, January 19, 2020 - 08:18 AM UTC
Full Oil Rendering...Ok here we Go

Let me start by saying that this is NOT my original idea/technique but several I have found over the years. (See my post above) Also I'm still very much in the experimental phase of this technique and with anything new there is a learning curve. So please pretice this technique on an old paint mule first.

BRUSHES
First off you will need several brushes. I find round and flat brushes most useful as well as large Mop style brushes for the Final blending.



Oil Paints
Of course you will need Oil paint of your choice and any brand you like will work. I use Winsor & Newton Artisan Water Mixable Oil Paints for their ease of use and clean up....Oh and I do have a few Abteilung 502s as well.



A few words regarding Artisan Water Mixable Oil Paints if you plan to give them a try. While they a water mixable the are still Oil Paints and behave just as normal Oil Paints do. There is plenty of online material on how to get the best results from them and how to handle some special elements with water mixable oils. So definitely do some research before going in full head a steam.

Opacity of Oil Paints
This is something I just learned myself not to long ago. NOT all oil paints have the same opacity. This definitely will impact you if have to use them, either straight from the tube or as part of a special mix for color. But luckily is somewhat easy to tell the difference between the two.



Working Palette
This rule is fairly well know but will just mention it here. Place your oil paint on a piece of cardboard to pull out the linseed oil from the paint. This will help shortin the drying time and help with coverage. Since I use the Water Mixable Oils I sometimes use a glass palette, but I'm using this less and less.



Priming the Model
I prime all my models the same way. I use Krylon Flat Black from a rattle can. I let it cure for about 48ish hours.

Applying the Paint to the Model
Apply paint with a stabbing/dabbing motion using only enough paint to lightly cover the area with a thin layer of paint. Several layers maybe need to cover fully. Do NOT brush it one in thick layers. remember "Less is More"



Once the paint is applied I hit it with a hair dryer just to get it to start setting up, though I'm not sure it is necessary to do that. I then set the model aside for about an hour. After that I start the blending process.

Using a DRY small flat brush using the stabbing/dabbing motion I slowly blend and smooth out the layer of paint. Try not to use the tip of the brush but rather the wide side of the brush. Repeat this process with increasing sizes of flat brushes until you are happy with the result. Lastly only use the large MOP brush as a final light blending.



Please note that at no time are any of my brushes dipped in thinner or water. Use them DRY!

Below is the sample I did up yesterday showing different colors.
I did this fast so it not quite a smooth as I would like.




Lastly here is my current project. After applying a primer of flat black from Krylon Spray can the entire model was painted in Winsor & Newton Artisan Water Mixable Oil Paint. The first picture is an early shot as I have since gone back and repainted it as it looked to green. The last photo is after the underside had VMS pigments applied...they are nice by the way.




Thanks for following along with all this and I sure hope it makes a little sense and not overly confusing. IF anyone has question feel free to ask or shot me a PM.

Good Luck and Have Fun
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Sunday, January 19, 2020 - 07:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I still cannot believe you can get pre-peeled bananas and oranges, the worlds gone crazzzzzzzzy.

Back on topic, I quite liked Robins idea about how he used the "yuk" from the jar he washes his brushes in, its sounds like a cunning plan which I may well try in the future ...




One vital thing to keep in mind when re-cycling the brush wash is that the solvent must not be to 'hot' for the paint on the model. I almost washed off the paint (Tamiya acrylics) once when the brush wash contained white spirit and turpentine. I noticed the paint going soft a few seconds before it was too late.
The wash got a REALLY good grip though .....


/ Robin
errains
#045
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Posted: Sunday, January 19, 2020 - 06:18 AM UTC
Oil Paint Homework

Before posting my technique on painting an entire model with oil paints I wanted to share a few links to videos and articles that heavily influenced how I started playing around with this idea.

For these first two it's important to understand the Application Method, Brush Control and understanding Less-Is-More.

Oil Paint Rendering-An Introductiont

Michael Rinaldi Oil Painting Technique

This last video goes over the process of painting an entire model in oils.

Painting Plastic Models with Brushes and Oil Paints

Stay tuned I'll be posting my take on these
southpier
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2020 - 11:01 PM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text

...personal choice and that convenience is THE leading factor for choosing to use products X, Y or Z.



I think this is a very real consideration for a lot of us. I understand how I could derive a greater volume of product if I went to the hardware store and purchased bulk ingredients, but then I have an investment & storage considerations which for my living and interest considerations far outweigh the cost of a prepared, dedicated use, product.

plus, I get to wear a new T-shirt and join the elite!
Johnnych01
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2020 - 11:00 PM UTC
I still cannot believe you can get pre-peeled bananas and oranges, the worlds gone crazzzzzzzzy.

Back on topic, I quite liked Robins idea about how he used the "yuk" from the jar he washes his brushes in, its sounds like a cunning plan which I may well try in the future ...

I remember when I tried to weather something for the first time, I must of read about a million topics about it and comments about this and that and I was still bricking it lol ... thankfully it turned out ok.
One thing I did read which I found the best bit of advice regarding weathering was..... Do not over do it, a little bit in the right place can look a lot better than something that is covered in weathering all over.
chrisb760
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2020 - 10:37 PM UTC
That would be great thank you so
Tank1812
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2020 - 08:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Chris, I'll work up a post on the techniques I use for brush paint a model with oils this weekend, look for it on Late Sunday afternoon or evening your time (GMT)



I do look forward to seeing that also. Can you explain more about the cork base, seems very interesting, why was it done that way?

Thanks,
errains
#045
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2020 - 08:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What amazes me is the amount of almost modelling snobbery expressed...



Not sure it this is directed toward the comments I left but let me say that NO snobbery was intended and if it was perceived that way or offended anyone I do apologise as it was not my intent.

I do totally agree that is a personal choice and that convenience is THE leading factor for choosing to use products X, Y or Z.

So let get this thread back ON TOPIC shall we...

Chris, I'll work up a post on the techniques I use for brush paint a model with oils this weekend, look for it on Late Sunday afternoon or evening your time (GMT)
Scarred
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2020 - 06:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

next thing you guys will be doing is rubbing a pencil on a piece of sandpaper and smudging it all over your models! shades of the 1950s.



I was doing that a few hours ago, doing some old vinyl Tamiya panther tracks. Graphite sticks to the vinyl better and once I hit it with a bit of dullcote it won't rub off, tho you still have to be careful handling them.
southpier
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2020 - 05:37 AM UTC
next thing you guys will be doing is rubbing a pencil on a piece of sandpaper and smudging it all over your models! shades of the 1950s.
alanmac
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2020 - 01:31 AM UTC
The idea of one set of products such as a carrier with which you mix different elements sounds good to me. so much so I followed up on the VMS suggestion and will probably get some.

What amazes me is the amount of almost modelling snobbery expressed by those who don't use purchased specific weathering products towards those that do.

It simply a matter of choice at the end of the day, and some prefer to take the easy route if cost isn't an issue.

It's got nothing to do with creative or artistic skills, just convenience and whatever enjoyment you get from doing modelling your way.

Alan
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2020 - 12:17 AM UTC

Precisely, the useful word 'twice' should indeed take precedence over 'two times' in almost all uses.
Except: calling someone a twiceing cheating bastard lacks a little something, in this case "two timing" is definitely preferrable
/ Robin
Dioramartin
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 11:44 PM UTC
Hmm nice, I seem to have wandered into Nilsson’s Online Supermarket, can you direct me to the pre-purchase shopping trolleys or should I pre-order?

While we’re so I also have a beef about the ridiculous unnecessary mis-use of “pre-….”. Such as pre-planned, pre-prepared etc. And while I’m at it, why has the word “twice” been banished from the language? Why use one word when two will do, as in “two times”.

Anyhow I agree about trying out cheap domestic products for weathering effects like fillers & putties mixed with kids’ powder paints. You can buy more kits with the money saved
Scarred
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 10:26 PM UTC
For people who have no idea how to cook and boiling water is too complicated or time consuming.

Pre-peeled bananas. Now I've seen it all.

What next? Pre-painted, pre-weathered and pre-built models?

Oh, wait, sorry, I got some of those on my shelves.

Move along, nothing to see here.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 09:37 PM UTC


Some things have many names 'pommes frites' or 'french fries', 'goatee' or 'french tickler' ....

Pre-anything means that it has been done by someone else, usually the producer/vendor so that the buyer/consumer does not have to do it.
(jeez ....)
and bananas


avocado


A prejudice on the other hand is a decision before the evaluation (pre = before, judice = judge).

Prepared = before + armed

Si vis pacem, para bellum or as it was originally written by Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus:
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Over and out, almost time for some left overs from yesterday: meat sauce and some pasta (which I cooked myself )
None of this:

for me

/ Robin


southpier
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 08:23 PM UTC
so they're peeled. and sliced.

no labels indicated any "pre", extra "pre", or "pre" free.

Ikea stuff comes drilled so the consumer doesn't have to drill.

no extra bag of holes to be inserted in the event one of the factory drilled holes is lost.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 06:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

how would one pre-peel a potato?

anything like pre-drilling a hole?

how would one drill a hole before drilling a hole?

sounds like a trip through the looking glass ...





Sold in jars or in vacuum sealed bags ....







Sliced:








The mounting holes in IKEA furniture comes pre-drilled from factory so that the buyer doesn't have to drill them.





In Sweden there is a dish called pyttipanna which is mostly sliced and diced potatoes with sliced and diced pieces of meat (a way to take care of leftovers).
Looks like this:


and you can buy canned sliced&diced potatoes

Many years ago I saw packages with a mix of pre-sliced&diced potatoes and meat. Ready for the frying pan.
It is also sold pre-assembled:

ready for the microwave ...

We also have a dish called 'lapskojs', it was served a few times when I went to school. Our opinion was that it looked as if it was pre-eaten ...



Chew on that for a while ...
Goes by other names in other countries.

/ Robin
Scarred
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 03:47 PM UTC
Whoa.... Mind. Blown.
southpier
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 11:54 AM UTC
how would one pre-peel a potato?

anything like pre-drilling a hole?

how would one drill a hole before drilling a hole?

sounds like a trip through the looking glass ...
Scarred
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 06:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The few times I did washes I used the brownish-green-yukk-coloured liquid that was in the jar I used to wash my brushes and do initial clean-up of the airbrush.
The larger particles settled after a while but the small stayed suspended and could be used as a wash.
It contained all the colours/hues used on the model so it worked great to blend in the colours with each other and make the camo-pattern less stark by subduing the contrasts.
This is not the solution to all washing and weathering, rather an extreme counter example to all the fancy products on sale. Most of the washes on the market are extremely diluted paint or mixes of paints.

I buy pre-sliced bread since it saves time but I do peel my own potatoes. I don't buy spice mixes either but I don't grow my own chilipeppers either.
/ Robin

Edit: Mentioning chilipeppers made me hungry all of a sudden ....



Wait..... They sell pre-peeled potatoes? Where can I find them? Only in Sweden?

If paint and weathering supply manufacturers start putting out weathering sets according to geographical locations I might reconsider my stance on pre-made products. So if they came out with a set for let's say Vietnam highlands or Golan Heights, or East Germany cold war then my interest might be piqued.

Now, seeing as Robin piqued my interest in food, I'm going to get some French fries. That's pommes frites Robin and maybe a french dip sandwich.
chrisb760
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 03:30 AM UTC
Hi Eric yes I would be interested, I've finished an M911 Tractor unit and M747 Trailer. The M60 A2 Is my first Tank and brush painting Desert Grey.
Thanks very much