login   |    register
Dioramas: Techniques
Diorama techniques and related subjects.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Making water .... for Silantra
Plasticbattle
#003
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,762 posts
Armorama: 7,443 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 01:02 AM UTC
In the recent post by PvtParts , Silantra asked me to explain how I made the water. Heres a short explanation seperately as I didnt want to hi-jack John´s thread..

The dio started off like below. (I went through a stage of trying to master the art of buildings from polystyrene trays ... free with meat and veg. etc from the supermarket. I stopped because if enamels or thinner got near it, the polystyrene melted. Excellent medium though for anybody who works with acrylic only! I even tried base painting with acrylics, but washes etc soaked through.)

Then I covered/flooded the the river area with quick drying hobby spackel. An excellent trick to convey the idea of depth is sink something in the spackel. Cutting a 200 litre barrel in half is one idea, even the roof of an old vehicle ... or in this case rubble from the blown bridge. I had to do this so one could see more of the vehicle. When ripples are added around this item it is a nice effect.



The base was then painted with a dark brown. Now the water is built up in layers with clear gloss varnish (CGV). I started with CGV and dark blue 25%/75%. Next few layers was CGV with greens and browns alternating, but the % of CGV was 5 - 10% more each time. When I got to the stage of 75%/25% CGV and colour, I added the ripples. The ripples were made with superglue gel. You have about 5 minutes to work with the gel. I used a tooth pick and flicked up little peaks. When dry, I touched the peaks with a white/pale bluecolour. Then came more layers of CGV and a little colour. The last few layers were pure varnish only.
Now the water is complete. I used oil varnish and painted a layer every day for about 12 days. Took about 10 miutes each time. I painted the figures, etc a little each day as well until all were complete, so the time was not missed.






This method works great when the water is surrounded by something that reflects in the water .. canal walls, steep banks, in buckets etc. Because of the solid colour the water, it acts like a mirror, which is exactly what real water does. It reflects the colour of the container or containing feature, or anything sticking out of it. The varnish and colour method is also good for puddles. The big adavntage is, it doesnt cost as much as resin to fill the area and is really easy to get nice effects, and about 2mm of spackel and 0,05mm of paint gives a really deep appearance. The only dissadvantage is its impossible to see anything submerged. Too many layers of varnish would be needed to convey this. Hopefully this explains the method easily. It was my first and only attempt at water, and Im well happy! PM me if you need more information.

3442
Visit this Community
Quebec, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2004
KitMaker: 2,412 posts
Armorama: 1,174 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 06:17 AM UTC
on a "all the time" ratio nothing gets more real then the real stuff but you made a great exception with your water effect

awsome job

Frank
Grumpyoldman
Staff MemberConsigliere
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,318 posts
Armorama: 7,288 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 07:06 AM UTC
A really interesting technique, looks really, really good.
I'll have to give it a try the next "water needed" time.
Thanks for sharing it.
boosahmer
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: September 16, 2002
KitMaker: 651 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 07:35 AM UTC
Very nice work...thanks for sharing the pics! :-)
Silantra
Visit this Community
Putrajaya, Malaysia
Joined: March 04, 2004
KitMaker: 2,509 posts
Armorama: 912 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 08:19 AM UTC
First of all, thanks for making this topic with my name in the topic... and thanks for answering my request...

Your article is really helpful to me this time. The narration is easy to follow. Your method also involving normal hobby stuff and this is what i like most. I've read a few articles on water modeling which many of them use rare resin compound that aren't available here in Malaysia and expensive too. By using clear gloss varnish, then this is the next alternative that i will try.
Before i commence the my task, i have a few question in mind.
1. what is quick drying hobby Spackle??
2. what type of CGV that u used or can be used?? HUmbroll CGV??
3. To what extend do we need to apply to each layer??
4. How thick is every layer??

I hope u can answer these..
well before i go, thanks a million Frank for this great How-to topic and sharing us with your job. Thanks Bro!!!
Plasticbattle
#003
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,762 posts
Armorama: 7,443 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 11:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

1. what is quick drying hobby Spackle??
2. what type of CGV that u used or can be used?? HUmbroll CGV??
3. To what extend do we need to apply to each layer??
4. How thick is every layer??


1) Spackle. It has loads of names. Its the typical stuff used for filling small holes in walls. Usally when a wall is built with bricks, it gets a layer of hardwall to smooth and straighten the interior surface. This is basically the same stuff. It comes in tubes ready mixed also.. to fill holes. It also comes in bags .. and can be mixed for different jobs around the house. There is a hobby version that dries pretty quickly.. its the stuff that comes kids moulds and you can cast and paint disney characters .. for example.
2)Any type. I used oil based varnish for furniture. Humbrol would work well. Maybe an acrylic varnish could be used and more than one layer painted per day.
3)Not sure what you mean by this question. Im guessing where do we paint. The whole water surface area.
4) Throw on plenty. Brush it out heavy .. but not so heavy that it never dries. Dont worry about brush strokes as these will even themselves out or add to the texture of the water if they dont.
Hope this is what you need to know! Good luck!
Silantra
Visit this Community
Putrajaya, Malaysia
Joined: March 04, 2004
KitMaker: 2,509 posts
Armorama: 912 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 08:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

1. what is quick drying hobby Spackle??
2. what type of CGV that u used or can be used?? HUmbroll CGV??
3. To what extend do we need to apply to each layer??
4. How thick is every layer??


1) Spackle. It has loads of names. Its the typical stuff used for filling small holes in walls. Usally when a wall is built with bricks, it gets a layer of hardwall to smooth and straighten the interior surface. This is basically the same stuff. It comes in tubes ready mixed also.. to fill holes. It also comes in bags .. and can be mixed for different jobs around the house. There is a hobby version that dries pretty quickly.. its the stuff that comes kids moulds and you can cast and paint disney characters .. for example.
2)Any type. I used oil based varnish for furniture. Humbrol would work well. Maybe an acrylic varnish could be used and more than one layer painted per day.
3)Not sure what you mean by this question. Im guessing where do we paint. The whole water surface area.
4) Throw on plenty. Brush it out heavy .. but not so heavy that it never dries. Dont worry about brush strokes as these will even themselves out or add to the texture of the water if they dont.
Hope this is what you need to know! Good luck!



thanks again Frank for the good explanation. Please ignore my 3rd question...
i will try this method soon.

Biggles2
Visit this Community
Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 6,867 posts
Armorama: 5,536 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 04:16 PM UTC
About your stonework - it looks like you used a waterproof marker to draw the masonry on the foam surface, but how did you texture the surface after? By brushing on thinned plaster of paris, or spackle? It looks pretty good and I'm always at a loss for easily making large areas of stone walls such as this.
Sealhead
Visit this Community
Kansas, United States
Joined: May 18, 2003
KitMaker: 427 posts
Armorama: 212 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 05:27 AM UTC
Will this method work when I have to make water in the Doctor's office after I forgot to not make water earlier?

Sealhead
05Sultan
#037
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 19, 2004
KitMaker: 2,869 posts
Armorama: 1,458 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 11:50 AM UTC
That looks great,Frank!!Looks just like deep water should.I'm going to play around with this technique.Maybe use layers of tinted Future instead of oil varnish? Really nice work guy.
And the fans scream for more........
Rick
KFMagee
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,586 posts
Armorama: 1,225 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 09:09 PM UTC
I remeember this one PB... the best thing I think is the wonder "waves"..... very natural and done so perfectly!
Bk27
Visit this Community
Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: February 17, 2005
KitMaker: 92 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, February 18, 2005 - 03:35 AM UTC
About the water, someone already test the product who exist in www.micromark.com.
Its the item number 82620
The product says "Realistic Water models lakes, ponds, rivers and more. No mixing required. Clear liquid pours directly from bottle and is self-leveling. Dries in 24 hours. Water-soluble for easy clean-up. 16 fl. oz."

Thanks

Rui Nogueira