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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
  
Hosted by: Jim Starkweather
Subject: Kirin Iraq M84 Lion Of Babylon
tomLocation: Florida, United States
Member Since: December 01, 2003
Posts: 676 entire network, 447 this site
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Posted: Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 01:24 PM BST
Is this the right one because I thought that the Lion was a T-72. I didn't think it was a M84 Tank.


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HeavyArtyLocation: Georgia, United States
Member Since: May 16, 2002
Posts: 8,717 entire network, 6,586 this site
Visit this CommunityGeneral of the Army
Posted: Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 03:22 PM BST
Actually there were a couple Lion of Babylon tanks. The one that was seen on the battlefield was a T-72 varient, not M-84. I can see where they could confuse the numbering though. The Yugoslav-built T-72 is called the M-84, while the Iraqi built T-72 is called a T-72 Lion of Babylon. Here is a description of the them:

"The Lion of Babylon tank (Asad Babil) is an Iraqi-made tank which is a version of the Soviet T-72 tank. They are built in a factory established in Iraq in the 1980s. They are equipped with additional armour at the front and rear as protection against missile attack.

The vehicle occasionally features Laser Range Finder technology, but this is the exception, rather than the rule. In all other respects, it is (at least physically) identical to the first model T-72. Nevertheless, the two differ considerably, both in the quality of construction and durability of materials used.

The Asad Babil was generally credited as being the most common tank in Iraqi service during the Second Persian Gulf War (1990-91), but that "honor" goes, in fact, to the Type 69 , produced in China. Much to the distress of Russian armaments designers, many of the failings of the Iraqi armies were blamed upon the T-72, with little note that the vehicle itself was an Iraqi copy of an export model, and no-where near its' Soviet counterpart in capability. Nevertheless, in the hands of competent crewmen, the Lion of Babylon can be a formidable weapon.
."

There was also the M1A1 based Lion of Babylon. In the mid to late 1980s, when we were supporting the Iraqis in the Iran-Iraq war, we gave then two M1A1s (stripped of the latest optics and fire control systems). The Iraqis added T-72 optics and fier control systems and called them Lions of Babylon. When the US and Iraq went by the wayside and ODS broke out, we were afraid that we would see them on the battlefield. However, they were later found in OIF in disrepair and abandoned at a Tank depot. An interresting, little-known story. Some one actually did a model and had an article about one of them in a past issue of Fine Scale Modeler a few years ago.
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SabotMember Since: December 18, 2001
Posts: 12,273 entire network, 8,813 this site
Posted: Friday, October 29, 2004 - 12:54 AM BST
Kirin makes both the Yugoslav M-84 and T-72 Lion of Babylon. Both saw action during Desert Storm. The Kuwaitis used the M-84, I made the mistake of referring to it as a T-72 and was quickly but politely corrected.

Some day I need to crack open both boxes to see what the exact differences are in each kit. Most likely less than a dozen pieces.
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