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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Academy Reissue - Wirbelwind
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: January 08, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:34 AM UTC
For anyone as interested as I am, Academy's reissue
of the Flakpanzer IV Wirbelwind is in stock at Great Model's
for only $12.75 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


- ralph
Folgore
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Canada
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 04:12 AM UTC
Can anyone compare the Academy Wirbelwind to Tamiya's?

Nic
brno465
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Australia
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 04:39 AM UTC
If it's at all like their Stug IV on the same chassis, it should be virtually identical - complete with motorization holes in the hull and see-thru gaps over the tracks.
The Stug built up into a decent model tho, and it wasn't expensive .........
Kraftstoff
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 04:51 AM UTC
Hi all,
from my experience (i've built both), the Academy kit is a direct copy including winter outfitted figures
Cheers,
Dave
Folgore
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 04:56 AM UTC
Okay, so what's the difference with the "new" Tamiya one?

Nic
ukgeoff
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 05:48 AM UTC
Nic, from what I've read, Tamiya's new Wirbelwind is a combination of the newer Pz IV hull and the original turret and gun.
avukich
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 08:51 PM UTC
The Academy Wirlbelwind is an exact copy of the older Tamiya Wirbelwind with the motorization holes. The newer Tamiya Wirlbelwind uses the old Wirbelwind turret and the hull from the new Tamiya Panzer IV Ausf. G & H. If you want to build a fairly accurate Wirbelwind then I would suggest going with the new Tamiya one as at least the hull dimensions are correct and the detail is very good.
herberta
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:00 PM UTC
As Adam says, the new Tamiya Wirbelwind has the new hull and running gear from their PzIV series, with the old turret, guns and crew. It's a nice kit.

Academy's kit is a complete rip-off copy of the old kit.

You can get the new-tooled Tamiya kit for a couple of bucks more than that sorry piece of rip off trash!!

OK, I realize I may be overreacting, and perhaps Academy is trying to get Tamiya back for rereleasing those old Stuarts just before the Honey comes out, but marketing knock-offs is pretty crappy.

Doe anyone know the history of how Academy gets away with this?

Andy
avukich
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:25 PM UTC
Andy,

If Taiwan's laws are anything like China's or Malaysia's, they don't respect international copyright laws. That is why you can find pirated copies of computer games, movies, and music cds from America all over the place in legal shops in China and Malaysia. You can buy pirated copies of stuff here in America such as in NYC for instance, but it is always being sold out of suitcases by shady individuals on street corners, but over there you can get these things in legitimate stores.

Dave (SS-74),

Can you speak to this since you are originally from Taiwan. What are the rules there like regarding international copyright laws?
slodder
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:38 PM UTC
I have the Academy version and have built the Tamiya version. Haven't started the Academy one so my comment is on pure visual information
The Academy looks like a copy of the Tamiya one. Very Very similar.
screamingeagle
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 11:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

As Adam says, the new Tamiya Wirbelwind has the new hull and running gear from their PzIV series, with the old turret, guns and crew. It's a nice kit.

Academy's kit is a complete rip-off copy of the old kit.

You can get the new-tooled Tamiya kit for a couple of bucks more than that sorry piece of rip off trash!!

OK, I realize I may be overreacting, and perhaps Academy is trying to get Tamiya back for rereleasing those old Stuarts just before the Honey comes out, but marketing knock-offs is pretty crappy.

Doe anyone know the history of how Academy gets away with this?

Andy



The post was just to inform anyone who might be interested, and at a good price.
Also, there is no such thing as a perfect model kit on the market that replicate's
it's real life cousin.
No matter what kit you may buy, be it made by Academy, Tamiya,
or any other, there is always some kind of aftermarket accessory kit or scratch-building
that a modeler will need to add to update the historical accuracy of that specfic model to
the real thing.

I haven't yet built the Wirbelwind, but from my experience with other Academy armor kit's,
I find them to be a quality manufacture of armor model kit's and I have always been satisfied
with Academy.

- ralph
avukich
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 11:58 PM UTC
I think that you are getting the wrong idea from our posts. We are simply trying to provide information about the Wirbelwind kits out there on the market so that anyone interested in buying one can make a more educated decision as to what kit to buy.


Quoted Text

Also, there is no such thing as a perfect model kit on the market that replicate's
it's real life cousin.



You are absolutely right, but there are such things as better models. A model with holes all through the bottom and out of wack dimensions (due to motorization) is not as good as one that has all of the inspection hatches molded on and the correct dimensions of the hull bottom and most importantly, no motorization holes.


Quoted Text

I haven't yet built the Wirbelwind, but from my experience with other Academy armor kit's, I find them to be a quality manufacture of armor model kit's and I have always been satisfied with Academy.



I agree that Academy is a quality model maker, but in their early days they were notorious for making cheap copies of Tamiya kits that were not even as good as the original Tamiya models because the detail was softer. The Wirbelwind is an example of one of their cheap copies.

All I was trying to do was to help you make a more informed decision when buying the Wirbelwind so that you wouldn't spend money on a cheap rip-off of a 1970s era Tamiya kit that wasn't very good to begin with. I personally would rather spend the few extra dollars on a much better kit, but that is just me. I am sorry if you were offended by this, but that is what these forums are for. We share information on kits and techniques so that others may learn and make more informed decisions. I myself like to know how kits stack up against one another so that I can decide which kit is best for me.
herberta
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2002 - 02:30 AM UTC
Hi Ralph

I realized you were posting information.
My intent was to emphasize Adam's point, and elaborate on it. I just can't believe that Academy still markets their knock-offs. I guess I expect these companies to display some ethical standards, but of course we know many multinationals aren't the best examples of ethical organizations!!!

I think the new-tooled Tamiya kit is infinitely better than the old Tamiya kit (or the Academy rip-off) because it is accurate. As Adam stated, this is information, and people can do with it what they will. If you want a kit that is easy to assemble, and looks somewhat like a Wirbelwind, then the Academy kit is one choice. The new Tamiya kit has the accurate hull, better tracks, better detailing, and is not a bootleg. Those all weigh into my perceived value of the kit.

Academy have dug themselves a big hole, because the new Honey kit is perceived by many as another kit rip-off/duplication. Very responsible modellers, with an eye for accuracy and measurements, have pointed out some suspicious similarities between the old Tamiya M3 kit and the new Academy kit. The latter is nicer than the Tamiya offering, but Academy's history of bootlegs gives those rumors credence.

I have lots of the new Academy kits. Their M10 series and recent Tiger kits look great. Of course if you want a real deal on a flak tank, Modelexpo have the Ostwind by Italeri on sale for $8. Now that's a deal!!!!

Cheers
Andy
Folgore
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2002 - 02:55 AM UTC
Sorry for basically changing the topic of your thread, Ralph. It was I who began all this by asking what the differences were between the Tamiya and Academy Wirbelwinds.
Thanks for enlightening me, Andy and Adam. I'm surpirsed Tamiya didn't throw new figures in with the kit, though. Are the old ones pretty good?

Nic
screamingeagle
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2002 - 10:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Sorry for basically changing the topic of your thread, Ralph. It was I who began all this by asking what the differences were between the Tamiya and Academy Wirbelwinds.
Thanks for enlightening me, Andy and Adam. I'm surpirsed Tamiya didn't throw new figures in with the kit, though. Are the old ones pretty good?

Nic



Not a problem Nic, and you have no need to be sorry. All's I'm saying is that any average
modeler can improve and update any inaccurasies of a model kit.
In all honesty I have never even seen either Tamiya's or Academy's W.W. FlK.Pz.IV, but
how do we know ( I know this is speculation ) that the reissue has not been improved
upon ? Has anyone seen any reviews on the reissue yet ?
I'm am not at all offended, nor do I doubt the inaccuracy that was mentioned
of the earlier Academy WW compared to Tamiya .......... but nor do I really give a damn
who copied who or any of that manufacture competitor stuff.

..........What matter's most to me is what skill's a modeler possess's to make a "so-so" armor kit better. Which undoubtly can & has been done. If a model need's to be reworked
by a modeler than I find that all the more challenging. If anyone should see or hear of any bad/good reviews on this reissue, please post it.

- ralph
herberta
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2002 - 10:29 PM UTC
Hi again Ralph.

I think the problem with the old Tamiya PzIV hull is that it is the wrong size for an accurate Pz IV. The kit was designed with motor and batteries in mind. You are right that accuracy can be improved easily, but I'd go with the much better kit now on the market.

And I care about companies pirating off each other for a number of reasons. The market for armor models is relatively small, especially compared to that for music or videos! Verlinden and other figure makers make copies of gear from other kits. So you get some really out of scale items. Academy and other manufacturers have copied Tamiya kits. Notice how much more expensive Academy originals are than their knock-offs. That's because it costs more to make an original accurate kit. Academy didn't pay anyone to go and measure existing vehicles. Given that I build a few kits a year, I'll spend a few extra bucks to get an original as opposed to rewarding the rip-off artist. That's my opinion, and of course, we are free to buy whatever kit we like!

Hey Nic,
The figures in the Wirbelwind are pretty nice. The guys are all in snowsuits, which look big, bulky, and warm! You may want to replace heads for those with better detail, but the figures look pretty good overall. I built the flak a long time ago, with figures, and you get an impressive 'dio in a box' with the crew and gun.

Andy

PS. This is shameless marketing on my part, but if you look at my sale list, I have an extra new-tooled Wirbelwind available. I got two, and I'm selling one. I plan to build the other eventually!!

:-)
screamingeagle
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2002 - 11:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Academy and other manufacturers have copied Tamiya kits. Notice how much more expensive Academy originals are than their knock-offs. That's because it costs more to make an original accurate kit.



Hi herberta - Yes your absolutely right............good point !

- ralph